Choices - SL 20mm 2" 80 UWA or Nagler 22 t4....Glasses wearer - Astigmatic.

[Alan White]

I am Astigmatic and need to wear glasses at the scope, no choice in this sadly.
This calls for long eye relief up to about 10mm, so larger exit pupils mean a choice limited eyepiece selection.

I love my APM UFF 30mm, but wish for a step down in exit pupil.
The choices I am pondering are:  SL 20mm 2" 80 UWA or Nagler 22 t4 

I know the t4 will work well with glasses, but will the SL20? 
The description on the web says yes, but many posts on the same EP differing branding say not.
Your thoughts please.

Clearly I prefer the price tag of the SL, but...

And its for mainly the 10" OOUK Dob and the 6" OOUK Newt use.
 

 

[JTEC]

Alan, I have the 22mm T4 and it’s one of my all-time favourite eyepieces both in my current refractors and in the 12 and 14” Dobs I used to have.  Friends seem to like it too, including some who don’t spend much time looking through telescopes.  Really just to say that, imv, it’s a super eyepiece and you couldn’t go wrong with it in terms of quality and performance.  Expensive though.  I suspect you knew all that already 🙂.  I’ve not used the SL, so can’t, I’m afraid, offer any comparisons. 

 

[Don Pensack]

6 hours ago, Alan White said:

I am Astigmatic and need to wear glasses at the scope, no choice in this sadly.
This calls for long eye relief down to about a 10mm focal length, so larger exit pupils mean a choice limited eyepiece selection.

I love my APM UFF 30mm, but wish for a step down in exit pupil.
The choices I am pondering are:  SL 20mm 2" 80 UWA or Nagler 22 t4 

I know the t4 will work well with glasses, but will the SL20? 
The description on the web says yes, but many posts on the same EP differing branding say not.
Your thoughts please.

Clearly I prefer the price tag of the SL, but...

And its for mainly the 10" OOUK Dob and the 6" OOUK Newt use.
 

 

Alan, The eyecup they use on the Stellalyra 20mm eats about 8mm worth of its 20mm, and the eyepiece, as-is, is not glasses-compatible, in my experience.

However, if the eyecup is removed, and you added a normal flip up/fold down eyecup to the 50mm threads (a 47mm diameter rubber eyecup works), or glue some black felt to the top of the eyepiece,

then it would be glasses compatible.

OTOH, the 22mm Nagler is glasses-compatible right out of the box.

 

Edited April 11 by Don Pensack

[Louis D]

The Long-Perng made 80 degree series have gotten good reviews in the 14mm and 20mm focal lengths in Orion LHD, SL 80º LER / UWA, and other liveries.  To get long eye relief though, you have to completely remove the eye cup as Don says above.  You might be able to find an alternate eye cup to slip-fit in place of it.

The Founder Marvel Ultra Wide version is also available from FLO for £20 cheaper if you can live with its green instead of red color.

If you're not hung up on 80º and could live with 70º, the 22mm Omegon Redline and its rebranded bretheren is very well corrected, eye glasses friendly with the eye cup removed, and not too heavy.  I have the discontinued Astro-Tech AF70 version.  I retired it only after acquiring a 22mm NT4, but am quite content to use it when I only have my B-Team case available.  The Baader Hyperion M43 screw-on eye cup fits it nicely as an eyeglasses friendly eye cup.  The original eye cup is far too thick and stiff to fold down.  This eyepiece used to be only $99 10 years ago, but it appears to have doubled in price since then.  Unfortunately, it's not such a bargain anymore.

[Don Pensack]

9 hours ago, Louis D said:

The Long-Perng made 80 degree series have gotten good reviews in the 14mm and 20mm focal lengths in Orion LHD, SL 80º LER / UWA, and other liveries.  To get long eye relief though, you have to completely remove the eye cup as Don says above.  You might be able to find an alternate eye cup to slip-fit in place of it.

The Founder Marvel Ultra Wide version is also available from FLO for £20 cheaper if you can live with its green instead of red color.

If you're not hung up on 80º and could live with 70º, the 22mm Omegon Redline and its rebranded bretheren is very well corrected, eye glasses friendly with the eye cup removed, and not too heavy.  I have the discontinued Astro-Tech AF70 version.  I retired it only after acquiring a 22mm NT4, but am quite content to use it when I only have my B-Team case available.  The Baader Hyperion M43 screw-on eye cup fits it nicely as an eyeglasses friendly eye cup.  The original eye cup is far too thick and stiff to fold down.  This eyepiece used to be only $99 10 years ago, but it appears to have doubled in price since then.  Unfortunately, it's not such a bargain anymore.

I concur on the 22mm Redline.  It is far better than its price indicates.  The cheapest version of it seems to be the 22mm Astromania SWA 70°, which is about USD$130.  Last I checked, it was available under several different labels.

[Alan White]

Thanks guys for the responses so far and very interesting.
I do note that both Don and Louis have got Nagler 22 t4 in the main cases, interesting.

It does irk me that an EP that states eyeglasses friendly is only so if you make DIY changes, that's just not right to me.

 

[Elp]

Are the Pentax XW no good for you? The eye relief does work, I replaced all mine with XWs (only three).

[Louis D]

I've avoided the 21mm Pentax XL early on and 20mm Pentax XW later on due to field curvature.  I also retired my 14mm Pentax XL in favor of the 14mm Morpheus as my eyes aged and field curvature become problematic.

[Alan White]

XW with glasses are OK for me, but I have avoided the 20mm and 14mm for the reasons above.
Must say the Morpheus 12.5 works great, but does not go to 20-22mm area, sadly.

I am only even looking at this for exit pupil, due to light pollution, otherwise the APM UFF 30mm would be it alone.

[Highburymark]

I love the Nagler too. It’s a big chunk of glass though, a consideration with light mounts. Too expensive new. But a gorgeous eyepiece.

[Alan White]

31 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

I love the Nagler too. It’s a big chunk of glass though, a consideration with light mounts. Too expensive new. But a gorgeous eyepiece.

Thanks Mark, do you use glasses with this one?
 

[Highburymark]

15 minutes ago, Alan White said:

Thanks Mark, do you use glasses with this one?
 

No I don’t Alan, but I can test it out with glasses later and report back

[Highburymark]

Just had a quick squint through the little 60ED with the 22mm T4, eye relief set to maximum. I hate observing with specs, mostly because I can never get comfortable or see the field stop - and here I could capture no more than about 80% of the AFOV. Am I doing something wrong? Even with the eyeguard down and my glasses laying flat against the eyepiece, it’s impossible to see 82 degrees. In the F6 Tecnosky, there’s also considerable field curvature, requiring quite a readjustment of the focuser to sharpen up details at the edge. This may all be irrelevant to you Alan - all I can say is I love the Nagler in my slower scopes, without glasses!

[Don Pensack]

Another report:  I wear glasses and can easily see the entire field of the 22mm T4 Nagler, glasses touching the rubber.  Strange that Mark can't.  His glasses must sit farther from his eye.

 

I can verify that by putting a brighter star at the edge of the field and then looking direct at the center of the field.  The bright star at the edge is still there in my peripheral vision, as well as the field stop.  Mark should try that.

 

It is an optical illusion that, somehow, the field looks a lot narrower when staring at the center than it does when you roll your head over to look directly at the edge.

I notice this in all eyepieces wider than about 70°--the field looks wider when you look directly at the edge.  I wonder if that is due to rectilinear distortion in the eye.  Possible.

 

My scope has over 10x the radius of curvature of his 60mm, and I see no field curvature whatsoever, so it will depend on the scope type and its focal length to determine whether you see FC in a 31.1mm wide field stop. 

[Second Time Around]

I bought the 22mm/70 Deg Omegon Redline.  Everyone's different but I preferred it to the much more expensive 22mm Nagler.  It's supposed to be not quite as sharp as the Nagler at the extreme edge, but the shape of my eye sockets means that I can't see the very edge of many wide angle eyepieces anyway.  I also found the Redline very comfortable as well.  A further advantage is, as Louis kindly pointed out to me some years ago, it can take a Dioptrx astigmatism corrector that I prefer to wearing glasses.

It's currently £162 including VAT plus shipping from £6.90.  Go to https://www.omegon.eu/eyepieces/omegon-redline-sw-22mm-eyepiece-2-/p,33239

[Don Pensack]

4 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

I bought the 22mm/70 Deg Omegon Redline.  Everyone's different but I preferred it to the much more expensive 22mm Nagler.  It's supposed to be not quite as sharp as the Nagler at the extreme edge, but the shape of my eye sockets means that I can't see the very edge of many wide angle eyepieces anyway.  I also found the Redline very comfortable as well.  A further advantage is, as Louis kindly pointed out to me some years ago, it can take a Dioptrx astigmatism corrector that I prefer to wearing glasses.

It's currently £162 including VAT plus shipping from £6.90.  Go to https://www.omegon.eu/eyepieces/omegon-redline-sw-22mm-eyepiece-2-/p,33239

It's the same eyepiece as the Astromania 22mm for $128.99 (£103.54).  Even with VAT, it'll be cheaper than the Redline.

https://astromaniaoptics.com/products/astromania-2quot-22mm-70-degree-super-wide-angle-swa-mean-you-always-enjoy-a-huge-field-of-view?VariantsId=10092

Also sold as Arcturus Ebony, and Omegon Redline.  You might find a used one sold as an Astrotech AF70 or Olivon 70.

[Second Time Around]

38 minutes ago, Don Pensack said:

It's the same eyepiece as the Astromania 22mm for $128.99 (£103.54).  Even with VAT, it'll be cheaper than the Redline.

https://astromaniaoptics.com/products/astromania-2quot-22mm-70-degree-super-wide-angle-swa-mean-you-always-enjoy-a-huge-field-of-view?VariantsId=10092

Also sold as Arcturus Ebony, and Omegon Redline.  You might find a used one sold as an Astrotech AF70 or Olivon 70.

Thanks, Don!  Good spot!  I see that Astromania is having it shipped direct from China, that hopefully will mean that postage is also low. 

Has anyone found it even cheaper?

I said to my wife that the current Omegon price is a lot higher than I paid, that if I recall correctly was about £110 including VAT.  However, that was just before Brexit.

[Louis D]

Okay, I found my order confirmation for my 22mm Astro-Tech AF70 in 2010:

Order Summary   12/19/2010 9:20:13 PM
Quantity	Product	Status	Unit Price	Line Total
1	Astronomy Technologies - Astro-Tech 22mm 70° field AF Series 2" SKU: ATAF7022	New Order	$99.95	$99.95
Sub-Total:				$99.95
Shipping:				$7.95
Tax:				$0.00
Total:				$107.90

 

That was in the pre-"South Dakota v. Wayfair, Inc." 2018 SCOTUS ruling more or less mandating interstate sales tax collection.  Apparently, it was a Christmas present to myself. 😊

So, if you can find it for $130+tax, it's still in line with that price ($100) once adjusted for 14 years of inflation ($143).

[Second Time Around]

Found my receipt too.  The Omegon Redline was £116 including postage on 2nd Jan 2020.  So a big increase since.

Edited April 13 by Second Time Around

[Alan White]

Well I found a member of my Astro club that owns a n22 t4 and had a look at it.

Then through it and with my glasses on, I cannot see the whole field stop without moving my lenses about.
With a good ponder, I think I was loosing about 5 degrees of view working on 82 being the whole, perhaps ev3n a touch more.

Ho hum, time to ponder again.

 

Edited April 15 by Alan White

[John]

4 minutes ago, Alan White said:

Well I found a member of my Astro club that owns a n22 t4 and had a look at it.

Then through it and with my glasses on, I cannot see the whole field stop without moving my lenses about.

Ho hum, time to ponder again.

Was that even with the top section of the eyepiece in the lowest position Alan ?

 

[Alan White]

42 minutes ago, John said:

Was that even with the top section of the eyepiece in the lowest position Alan ?

 

Yes, fully down, even checked by the owner to make sure.

[Louis D]

Sounds about right.  The eyeglasses view in the 22mm Nagler is still wider than the Redline 22mm 70 degree by a few degrees.

[Louis D]

On 13/04/2024 at 13:26, Don Pensack said:

Also sold as Arcturus Ebony

Just checked their pricing at CCTS.  $119, and they don't charge sales tax to Texas!  That's only 20% higher than the 2010 price I paid.

I bought my Arcturus binoviewer from them, so I've had a positive experience with them in the past.

[Alan White]

With all these replies and my look through and at a t4,
no surprise I am in the state of Paralysis from Analysis!

Hmmmmmm.