New camera, ASI585mc Pro

[Adam J]

So looks like ZWO are bringing out a new cooled version of the ASI585mc and it's expected to be competitively priced as a camera to introduce more people into cooled deep sky imaging. Apparently it may land in the region of £600 pounds which really would be impressive if true. 

[fwm891]

A mono version would be great too

[Elp]

I used to use the 485mc uncooled for DSO, worked perfectly fine without cooling. I did find colour saturation was a slight issue but the main problem was it's a 16:9 wide-screen aspect ratio, you really do miss out on the height. For planetary this obviously isn't an issue.

[Ags]

I am still using the 485MC, I can't complain but it was a bit annoying when the 585MC came out a couple of months later with zero amp glow...

[Dark Raven]

 

[Stuart1971]

Hmm, I think £200 extra for a TEC cooler is a lot TBH, especially when you can get a good secondhand 533 for around £550 now, which is a much better choice for a beginner with £600 to spend…and the 533 sensor, is pretty much double the size of the 585..

[Adam J]

Yeah but you can say that about anything second hand Vs new. 

You can get a used 294mm for cheaper than a new 533mm....etc etc. 

[Stuart1971]

24 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Yeah but you can say that about anything second hand Vs new. 

You can get a used 294mm for cheaper than a new 533mm....etc etc. 

exactly my point, so a beginner can get  better bang for buck buying second hand…IMO…👍🏻

[Adam J]

1 hour ago, Stuart1971 said:

exactly my point, so a beginner can get  better bang for buck buying second hand…IMO…👍🏻

In general I agree and lots of what I own is used. But someone has to buy it new for someone else to buy it used lol. Some people will want a shiny new unboxing experience and warranty just like some people want that new car smell. 

Cameras should normally be ok used, but I have come to the conclusion that I don't like the mine field of buying used Chinese made optics. Too much sample variation. 

That aside this 585 will be superior for galaxy  imaging to the 533 and for some that's all they want to do. Those people won't find a used one.

Edited February 25 by Adam J

[Vallantho]

Touptek do a cooled IMX585. I’ve seen it listed on aliexpress for £449. Not sure what customs or import fees there would be, but to me that’s still a very attractive price. I know people might worry about the customer support aspect but if you were happy to buy something else second hand then you’re pretty much taking on the same level of risk. 

[Thommy]

10 hours ago, Adam J said:

That aside this 585 will be superior for galaxy  imaging to the 533 and for some that's all they want to do. Those people won't find a used one.

Adam, why is that?

[Adam J]

15 minutes ago, Thommy said:

Adam, why is that?

Potentially significantly lower read noise so potential for very short exposures even down to 5 seconds and less on some brighter galaxies. Mitigates guiding errors on large long focal length scopes and if you can go short enough it will mitigate some of the seeing too.

Further more even in the case of more conventional exposure length in my opinion the smaller pixels will benefit allot of galaxy imaging setups as you want to have better sampling on an OSC due to the effects the bayer matrix has on resolution. 

Adam

Edited February 26 by Adam J

[Vallantho]

I see the it’s listed on FLO now. £619

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/zwo-cameras/zwo-asi-585mc-pro-usb-30-cooled-colour-camera.html

[Thommy]

Adam, thanks for the explanation. But there is not so much difference in read noise between the 585MC and 553MC. For both cameras the read noise where HCG sets in is 1.5e-. For higher gains the read noise of the 585 is marginally lower.

The dynamic range of the 553 is somewhat higher which is not so important if you keep the exposures very short. The pixel area is roughly 70 % larger for the 553. When speaking of sensitivity that is important! On the other hand the QEmax of the 585 is 91% compared to 80% for the 553, according to ZWO. Further, this difference increases for longer wavelengths. I wonder if the 91% is correct for the 585 when taking the color filters into account?

I do not see a big advantage of the 585 (for short exposures). Perhaps the higher color resolution of the 585 could be one.

Another conclusion: I think, I will stick to mono's .... 

[SteveNickolls]

I've enquired over whether the Pro version will have an anti-reflection cover slip like the uncooled version. No one is sure right now. I'd like to try out the sensor's NIR capability.

Cheers,

Stdve

[UKRoman]

I've placed an order. I think it'll provide a useful image scale when used in conjunction with my refractor for capturing smaller objects. Excited 😀

[Adam J]

6 hours ago, Thommy said:

Adam, thanks for the explanation. But there is not so much difference in read noise between the 585MC and 553MC. For both cameras the read noise where HCG sets in is 1.5e-. For higher gains the read noise of the 585 is marginally lower.

The dynamic range of the 553 is somewhat higher which is not so important if you keep the exposures very short. The pixel area is roughly 70 % larger for the 553. When speaking of sensitivity that is important! On the other hand the QEmax of the 585 is 91% compared to 80% for the 553, according to ZWO. Further, this difference increases for longer wavelengths. I wonder if the 91% is correct for the 585 when taking the color filters into account?

I do not see a big advantage of the 585 (for short exposures). Perhaps the higher color resolution of the 585 could be one.

Another conclusion: I think, I will stick to mono's .... 

Its 1e vs 1.2e at the kind of gain you would use for short exposures using HCG mode... 

However, ZWO have not used the lowest read noise mode (HDR mode) of the 585 chip....that would have allowed the read noise to drop to 0.5e-0.65e, I don't know why they have not done it??

So like the mode used by the Altair Hypercam version.

https://www.altairastro.com/altair-hypercam-585c-colour-fan-cooled-usb3-astronomy-camera-13481-p.asp

IN terms of QE I think you are comparing relative response on the 533 and actual QE on the 585 so they are actually very different. 

Adam 

Edited February 27 by Adam J

[SteveNickolls]

Further to my recent post I've had confirmation from ZWO Support in the US confirming the ASI585MC-Pro comes with an AR cover slip.

Cheers,

Steve

 

Added 29.2.2024 13.44 PM-FLO now list the camera as having the AR slip cover/protection window-

Edited February 29 by SteveNickolls

[happy-kat]

If IR is your thing what about the 462MM

[UKRoman]

11 hours ago, SteveNickolls said:

Further to my recent post I've had confirmation from ZWO Support in the US confirming the ASI585MC-Pro comes with an AR cover slip.

Cheers,

Steve

So no IR Cut filter?

[SteveNickolls]

1 hour ago, UKRoman said:

So no IR Cut filter?

Seems not.

Cheers,
Steve

[SteveNickolls]

11 hours ago, happy-kat said:

If IR is your thing what about the 462MM

Yes, there's a few cameras now with NIR ability. Wish I had enough ££ to buy more things. I recently also contacted ZWO regarding a future ASI678MM.

Cheers,
Steve

[Elp]

11 hours ago, SteveNickolls said:

a few cameras now with NIR ability

I still find the 224 an excellent planetary camera and it's one of those with the NIR in mind, and it's incredibly affordable nowadays.

[UKRoman]

Just discovered that the ASI585MC Pro doesn't have a built-in dew heater. Doh, I should have read the specs properly. I already have the uncooled 585MC which I've tried for DSO imaging on a couple of occasions without success due to the sensor window dewing up. I may have to review plans before I unbox the new camera 🤔

[Elp]

What kind of humidity do you have and also ambient temps? The sensor window also shouldn't really dew up if it's enclosed between filters or glass from flatteners for example (closed off from the elements).

Edited March 22 by Elp