Do double stars exist?

Richard N · February 1

I was getting together a list of very rarely observed doubles in Cygnus today. Out of interest I dropped the RA and DEC of a couple into Aladin. I couldn’t see any clear evidence of double stars in the locations I entered. Might these stars not actually exist? Some don’t appear to have been observed for a 100 years or more.

Knighty2112 · February 1

What RA and Dec did you use, and what was the double star you were trying to see in Aladin?

Mr Spock · February 1

Cygnus doubles - are they in here?

coord   wds_name   last   obs   pa   sep   m1   m2
19 08 20 +55 19 50   D 19 AB   2011   40   341   0.5   7.67   9.51
19 08 39 +55 31 02   TDS 967   1991   1   152   1   10.73   11.23
19 12 05 +49 51 21   STF 2486 AB   2019   323   204   7.1   6.54   6.67
19 23 15 +47 11 45   STT 372 AB   2019   24   55   77.5   7.9   10.24
19 26 05 +47 23 41   HJ 1401   2015   12   187   17.9   11.49   12.3
19 26 20 +28 25 42   MLB 473   2015   3   150   2.5   11.5   12.7
19 26 52 +27 52 41   HO 451   2015   13   282   3.9   10.9   12.6
19 27 23 +33 19 35   ES 353   2015   8   298   3.6   9.2   10.8
19 28 12 +28 48 54   TDT 1475   1991   1   231   1.9   11.64   12.53
19 29 06 +27 55 47   LSC 86   2014   2   39   0.1   8.3   11.2
19 29 30 +27 48 57   OL 217   2015   14   253   7.4   10.56   11.05
19 30 07 +28 49 56   TDT 1503   1991   1   202   2.4   11.08   12.24
19 30 21 +50 14 37   TDT 1508   1991   1   207   2.1   11.45   11.77
19 30 34 +28 16 51   BU 651 AB   2015   24   287   6.4   8.89   12.9
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AL   2012   1   269   12   3.19   11.5
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AG   2015   6   45   161.8   3.19   12.5
19 30 43 +27 57 35   "BNU 10 Aa   Ab"   1995   2   160   0   3.37   5
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AJ   2017   5   141   140.6   3.19   10
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AI   2017   6   132   38   3.19   12.5
19 30 43 +27 57 35   STFA 43 AB   2020   288   54   34.6   3.19   4.68
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AH   2017   7   119   54.5   3.19   12.5
19 30 43 +27 57 35   "MCA 55 Aa   Ac"   2020   61   243   0.3   3.37   5.16
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AK   2015   6   277   142.5   3.19   11.5
19 30 43 +27 57 35   CTT 18 AE   2017   11   207   76.7   3.19   11.81
19 30 43 +27 57 35   CTT 17 AD   2017   11   33   108.4   3.19   12.24
19 30 43 +27 57 35   WAL 114 AC   2017   11   341   65.6   3.19   10.99
19 30 43 +27 57 35   SMR 34 AF   2017   7   46   59.2   3.19   12
19 30 45 +27 57 55   "RBR 12 Ba   Bb"   -1   0           5.1   9.2
19 31 33 +28 08 07   ES 485   2013   6   337   2.2   10.41   11.7
19 32 06 +28 16 00   BU 652 AB   2015   13   305   5.5   7.67   13.3
19 32 16 +28 42 50   SLE 625   2015   8   133   5.9   11.2   11.9
19 32 58 +28 42 47   TDT 1534   1991   1   209   2.5   11.55   12.61
19 33 12 +28 50 21   TDT 1537   1991   1   176   2.3   11.18   13.46
19 33 36 +32 29 20   ACA 4 AD   2015   8   76   21.9   8.3   12.2
19 33 47 +28 31 60   SLE 631   2015   9   350   12.1   11.5   11.9
19 33 60 +28 55 32   MLB 653 AB   2005   3   353   1.9   10.62   11
19 34 14 +55 02 40   HJ 1422   2015   9   297   19.4   10   12.2
19 34 47 +28 38 17   MLB 655   2015   4   83   3.6   12.3   12.7
19 34 51 +29 27 46   WRH 32   1994   19   184   0   5.9   6.4
19 34 53 +27 50 17   COU 1032   2015   6   267   1.9   10.66   11.15
19 35 08 +28 35 38   SLE 636   2015   9   0   10.8   12.65   12.56
19 35 09 +28 31 03   SLE 638   2015   9   267   8.5   12.22   12.5
19 35 18 +27 52 60   BKO 69 AB   2002   1   236   2.3   12   13.5
19 35 26 +27 54 38   ES 489 AB   2015   11   237   17   8.63   11.2
19 35 43 +28 19 45   SLE 643   2015   10   273   10.3   11.1   12.9
19 35 53 +28 58 32   SLE 645   2015   10   39   9.2   9.96   11.7
19 37 10 +29 20 01   HJ 1423 AB   2012   10   127   20.5   6.45   11
19 41 49 +50 31 32   STFA 46 AB   2019   589   132   39.5   6   6.23
19 44 58 +45 07 50   STF 2579 AC   2017   8   67   62.5   2.89   12
19 44 58 +45 07 50   STF 2579 AB   2017   487   215   2.8   2.89   6.27
19 45 51 +35 00 46   H 5 137 AB   2019   53   25   38.8   6.22   8.18
19 46 26 +33 43 39   STF 2580 AB   2019   153   68   26.1   5.06   9.25
19 48 44 +35 18 41   STT 387   2018   361   98   0.4   7.12   7.9
19 55 38 +52 26 20   STF 2605 AB   2017   131   175   2.9   5.03   7.52
20 01 22 +50 06 17   H 5 47 AB   2018   28   150   41.8   5.17   8.94
20 02 23 +35 18 41   ES 202 AO   2015   2   182   4.1   9.2   14.4
20 04 26 +30 55 06   GRV 309   2015   8   328   34.1   11.84   12.84
20 05 57 +35 47 18   SHJ 314 AD   2019   42   300   11.3   6.78   9.49
20 10 13 +43 56 44   STT 400   2017   241   326   0.6   7.6   9.83
20 12 13 +38 26 35   STT 401   2015   15   69   12.8   7.32   10.62
20 13 18 +46 48 56   GUI 30 DC   2003   27   150   431.8   4.83   6.97
20 13 38 +46 44 29   STFA 50 AC   2016   46   173   108.6   3.93   6.97
20 13 38 +46 44 29   "WRH 33 Aa   Ab"   1985   6   144   0   3.93
20 13 38 +46 44 29   STFA 50 AD   2016   38   322   336.7   3.93   4.83
20 13 38 +46 44 29   HJ 1495 AB   2015   12   328   36.5   3.93   13.4
20 13 41 +53 07 30   STF 2658 AB   2019   83   106   5.4   7.19   9.38
20 14 14 +47 42 54   ES 799 AB   2018   4   14   2.2   10.98   11.1
20 14 20 +55 01 19   TDT 2111   2015   2   154   2   11.48   12.51
20 14 26 +39 20 51   TOB 182 AC   2015   12   194   43.2   12.35   11.79
20 15 28 +47 42 51   S 743   2015   13   175   208.5   4.16   8.36
20 15 49 +52 30 08   STT 404 AB   2015   20   115   28.5   7.59   9.8
20 17 16 +52 00 37   ES 660 AB   2018   17   305   30.1   10.19   10.26
20 18 07 +40 43 56   STF 2666 AB   2018   86   245   2.8   5.96   8.24
20 18 25 +55 23 50   STF 2671 AB   2017   119   337   3.7   6.01   7.51
20 19 07 +36 45 08   BU 1206 AB   2016   17   355   2.2   7.53   10.7
20 19 18 +38 58 44   HO 126 AB   2017   17   163   2.2   10.81   10.52
20 19 24 +36 43 36   BKO 565   2015   6   13   11.3   12.6   13.9
20 19 50 +45 21 50   STT 406   2011   158   92   0.2   7.25   8.74
20 20 56 +39 28 27   HO 127   2015   5   94   1.9   8.94   13.4
20 26 23 +56 38 19   STF 2687   2019   52   118   25.1   6.37   8.31
20 28 53 +56 55 23   STI 2535 AB   2015   14   227   13.6   9.73   10.57
20 33 31 +47 02 58   A 738 AB   2002   9   249   2.4   9.26   11.04
20 37 25 +39 07 26   TDT 2431   1991   1   244   0.6   11.47   11.48
20 37 38 +45 03 41   HJ 1555   2015   14   354   13.8   10.32   11.69
20 39 33 +40 34 47   "STT 410 AB   D"   2018   14   327   106.6   6.76   10.02
20 39 33 +40 34 47   STT 410 AB   2018   144   3   0.9   6.73   6.83
20 41 03 +32 18 26   STF 2716 AB   2016   99   44   2.7   5.75   8.1
20 41 08 +55 03 58   TDS 1089   2015   4   252   1.4   10.85   10.88
20 41 26 +45 16 49   H N 73   2008   11   105   75.6   1.25   11.7
20 42 01 +40 14 42   A 1433   2008   9   24   0.8   9.79   10.33
20 42 20 +45 49 24   STT 411 AB   2015   49   349   31.8   7.66   10.58
20 43 11 +44 58 02   BKO 159   2015   8   37   13.2   11.9   13
20 44 53 +43 31 52   ES 1448   2018   9   142   2   10.39   10.8
20 45 00 +35 59 29   ALI 204   2015   11   307   11.5   11   12.7
20 45 25 +36 50 21   SEI 1238   2016   12   124   8.1   10.4   10.6
20 45 40 +30 43 11   STF 2726   2018   73   72   5.9   4.33   9.53
20 46 00 +36 01 10   SEI 1242   2016   14   214   23.6   11.05   11.41
20 46 03 +35 53 55   TDT 2525   1991   1   41   0.7   11.83   12.02
20 46 03 +36 52 34   ES 2514   2015   4   100   2.9   13.2   13.7
20 46 18 +36 47 47   ES 2515 AB   2015   8   175   6.8   10.92   13.2
20 47 25 +36 29 27   "MCA 63 Aa   Ab"   1991   21   106   0   5.4   5.8
20 47 25 +36 29 27   STT 413 AB   2018   420   0   0.9   4.73   6.26
20 47 25 +36 29 27   S 765 AC   2018   28   106   82.8   4.76   9.65
20 48 05 +35 54 18   SEI 1252   2015   19   115   17.3   11.75   12.2
20 48 31 +35 50 31   SEI 1254   2015   10   20   22.3   10.18   12.2
20 49 04 +36 40 40   SEI 1260   2015   10   42   7.5   11.16   10.9
20 50 00 +36 40 18   TOB 199   2015   8   109   18.8   11.4   12.3
20 50 05 +44 03 34   STT 595 AB   2015   20   48   55.4   5.04   11.9
20 50 16 +36 44 59   TDT 2568   1991   1   174   2.4   11.81   12.35
20 54 50 +32 42 23   STT 418   2018   158   283   0.9   8.23   8.27
20 59 00 +43 30 00   LDS 2476   1954   1   65   3   20.8   21
20 59 50 +47 31 15   STF 2743 AB   2012   33   353   21   4.74   9.43
20 59 55 +40 15 32   LEP 98 AD   2002   7   259   999.9   6.66   10.9
20 59 55 +40 15 32   ENG 79 AB   2003   10   219   165.9   6.66   9.76
21 00 43 +33 53 21   BUP 222 AE   2002   5   89   813.7   9.75   9.84
21 00 49 +38 59 44   SEI 1365   2015   11   263   18.4   11.4   11.9
21 01 47 +44 11 14   HO 600   2004   7   97   2.1   6.7   10.9
21 01 50 +39 15 38   STF 2746   2018   133   323   1.2   7.92   8.71
21 02 13 +45 06 00   LDS 2481   2015   6   16   12.1   17   17.5
21 02 21 +39 30 32   H 4 113 AB   2018   37   300   18.9   6.62   9.49
21 03 28 +38 24 31   SEI 1381   2015   14   170   16.9   10.35   11.36
21 03 39 +38 41 16   SEI 1384   2016   13   96   26.4   10.52   11.98
21 03 42 +38 57 05   TDT 2720   1991   1   214   0.5   10.62   10.62
21 04 00 +38 53 44   TDT 2723   1991   1   122   2.6   12.34   12.78
21 04 40 +39 07 59   SEI 1393   2017   13   132   25.7   9.67   10.58
21 05 04 +39 14 20   ES 1987   2015   9   354   7   10.19   11.8
21 05 12 +38 37 58   ALI 958   2015   7   147   8.1   10.58   12.7
21 05 23 +39 37 10   CRB 137   2015   5   352   29.2   11.19   14.44
21 05 45 +39 29 29   A 2691 AB   2016   6   217   2.7   9.71   13.6
21 05 53 +35 27 56   TDT 2744   1991   1   36   0.6   11.33   11.47
21 06 47 +34 07 56   STF 2760 AB   2020   242   33   5.6   7.9   8.74
21 06 50 +38 33 32   TDT 2758   1991   1   236   2   11.85   12.24
21 06 54 +38 44 58   SMR 1 AI   2018   14   237   33.7   5.35   10.74
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AB   2019   1803   153   31.8   5.2   6.05
21 06 54 +38 44 58   SMR 40 AP   2018   9   289   154.7   5.35   12.84
21 06 54 +38 44 58   HZE 4 AJ   2015   3   241   17.5   2.25   12.43
21 06 54 +38 44 58   SMR 40 AO   2018   10   280   162.5   5.35   12.65
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AH   2018   32   267   121.8   5.35   9.97
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AC   2016   6   219   839.8   5.35   10.23
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AE   2016   12   267   340.8   5.35   9.63
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AG   2016   13   236   260.4   5.35   11.3
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AF   2016   10   240   371.2   5.35   11.3
21 06 54 +38 44 58   HZE 4 AK   2006   1   83   7.8   2.25   13.05
21 06 54 +38 44 58   SMR 40 AQ   2018   5   307   71   5.35   13.19
21 06 54 +38 44 58   STF 2758 AD   2016   4   250   748   5.35   10.45
21 06 55 +38 44 32   TNN 15 BR   2005   1   77   11.5   2.54   14.8
21 06 55 +38 44 32   HZE 4 BL   2006   1   145   9.9   2.74   14.04
21 07 02 +38 39 32   ES 2059   2016   16   267   7   10.11   12.7
21 07 05 +39 05 15   ALI 960   2015   8   110   12.9   12.6   12.6
21 07 09 +38 52 48   MLB 888   2016   5   56   4.3   11.6   13.2
21 07 17 +38 41 11   MLB 1018   2016   9   250   4.6   12.3   13.7
21 07 18 +38 57 18   MLB 889   2015   9   5   7   10.2   11.5
21 07 22 +38 41 11   MLB 1019   2016   7   245   5.8   12.1   13.5
21 07 25 +38 53 04   MLB 890   2016   9   250   5.5   12.69   11.6
21 07 30 +38 31 20   SEI 1408   2016   11   54   9.3   11.1   11.8
21 07 35 +37 59 46   ES 2060 AB   2015   9   249   5.7   11.51   11.1
21 07 47 +34 21 25   ABH 141 AJ   2015   8   222   62   10.22   13.9
21 07 50 +38 33 52   BRT 2233   2016   6   38   4.1   11.9   12.4
21 08 18 +37 56 54   TDT 2778   1991   1   228   0.8   11.86   12.02
21 08 22 +38 15 43   SEI 1411   2015   13   4   5.1   10.78   11.8
21 08 39 +30 12 20   STF 2762 AB   2015   114   303   3.4   5.7   8.1
21 09 05 +38 22 39   SEI 1417   2015   10   140   31.3   12.25   12.15
21 09 08 +38 43 45   S 779   2015   23   9   110.5   7.61   9.57
21 09 26 +39 04 54   GUR 1   2015   7   150   8.3   10.73   13.8
21 09 30 +38 21 41   GUR 2   2015   2   67   4   11.73
21 09 44 +38 56 02   COU 1967   2016   7   192   0.8   9.73   10.04
21 10 14 +38 44 10   SEI 1426   2015   12   20   17.6   10.23   11.96
21 10 27 +38 51 12   SEI 1429   2015   11   351   25.1   9.86   11.01
21 10 47 +38 13 58   TDT 2806   1991   1   259   0.4   11.1   11.26
21 10 47 +38 17 52   ALI 682   2015   8   129   8.9   12.1   12.2
21 10 57 +38 30 33   ES 254   2012   11   325   2.2   10.46   10.59
21 11 10 +38 20 19   ES 207   2016   16   244   2.4   10.37   10.76
21 12 20 +38 28 20   SMA 137   2014   10   121   9.6   11.2   12.2
21 12 30 +38 33 59   SEI 1445   2014   11   23   27.9   7.32   11.9
21 12 35 +38 46 02   COU 2136   2009   4   293   0.4   10   10.9
21 12 56 +30 13 37   BUP 227 AB   2015   8   205   65.2   3.3   11.7
21 14 19 +41 08 48   STT 432   2018   118   116   1.3   7.78   8.05
21 14 20 +34 17 40   STTA 216   2014   28   47   102.4   7.35   8.09
21 14 47 +38 02 43   AGC 13 AB   2017   353   184   1   3.83   6.57
21 16 08 +41 01 09   COU 2229   2016   6   278   0.8   10.12   10.38
21 17 55 +34 53 49   STT 433 AB   2015   22   219   15.2   4.36   10.8
21 19 00 +39 44 58   STT 434 AB   2018   36   122   24.4   6.67   9.93
21 19 59 +52 58 44   STF 2789 AB   2019   118   114   6.9   7.71   7.87
21 20 50 +32 27 10   STT 437 AB   2020   289   19   2.4   7.15   7.42
21 35 09 +38 06 58   SRW 10 AB   2018   11   315   19.5   10.52   11.16
21 36 57 +40 24 49   DRS 20   2008   2   58   7   4.51   13.3
21 38 15 +29 58 14   HJ 1670   2015   13   78   11.7   11.47   11.56
21 39 17 +43 12 02   GIC 168   2015   13   275   6.8   12.31   12.8
21 39 28 +43 16 40   DA 14   2015   10   350   3.9   8.91   11.4
21 39 29 +41 43 36   STT 447 AC   2017   27   176   14   7.67   11.2
21 39 29 +41 43 36   BU 449 AB   2015   7   14   6   7.67   12.6
21 39 47 +54 03 20   TDT 3093   2006   2   331   0.4   10.64   10.89
21 39 51 +29 29 22   BRT 57   2015   18   137   5   10.2   10.3
21 40 02 +43 47 34   TDT 3097   1991   1   253   0.4   11.09   11.42
21 40 11 +43 16 26   STTA 221 AC   2003   23   253   62.2   5.28   10.26
21 40 11 +43 16 26   AC 20 AB   2008   16   327   2.7   5.28   10.1
21 40 39 +54 19 29   ES 35 AC   2014   18   28   18.2   8.19   10.79
21 41 01 +29 20 26   STT 448   2008   89   86   0.2   8.93   9.17
21 41 13 +29 55 32   GRV 491   2015   9   21   31.4   12.06   12.32
21 41 39 +29 11 35   GRV 493   2015   7   184   44.7   11.75   14.04
21 41 52 +29 01 24   MLB 492   2015   8   114   7   10.97   13
21 41 59 +29 51 24   MLB 720   2015   8   140   7.2   10   11.2
21 42 00 +29 22 57   MLB 539   2011   6   171   4.8   9.6   10.2
21 42 23 +41 04 37   KUI 108 AB   2014   142   339   0.2   6.33   6.72
21 42 33 +41 02 51   BU 688 AB   2016   77   199   0.4   8.1   8.62
21 42 34 +42 26 26   STF 2820 AB   2017   20   230   16   7.48   10.56
21 42 56 +30 14 17   TDT 3119   1991   1   157   2.7   11.84   12.57
21 43 26 +38 17 01   S 799 AB   2015   37   60   149.5   5.69   7
21 43 32 +53 45 14   DAM 233   2015   10   227   8.3   11.8   11.8
21 44 09 +28 44 33   FYM 25 AF   2012   3   72   111.5   4.75   12.64
21 44 09 +28 44 33   STF 2822 AD   2019   56   43   197   4.75   6.94
21 44 09 +28 44 33   STF 2822 AC   2012   16   292   76.6   4.75   12.93
21 44 09 +28 44 33   STF 2822 AB   2019   729   322   1.5   4.75   6.18
21 44 09 +28 44 33   FYM 25 AG   2012   3   73   168.1   4.75   13.77
21 44 11 +29 41 32   MLB 493   2015   8   330   8.6   10.38   12.4
21 44 19 +28 46 54   ES 521 DE   2015   7   286   17.5   6.94   13.13
21 45 11 +29 14 22   UC 4550   2015   6   15   42.5   8.6   15.7
21 45 27 +29 48 28   DAM 237   2015   7   233   6.3   11.1   13
21 45 41 +29 56 38   TDT 3145   1991   1   250   2.2   12.1   12.67
21 45 46 +29 45 09   DAM 236   2015   6   143   5.9   12.5   13
21 45 48 +29 53 43   TDT 3146   1991   1   359   2.5   11.16   12.96
21 46 05 +28 54 51   BRT 58   2015   13   165   4.4   11   11.4
21 46 55 +29 07 19   CVR 919   2015   8   200   23.5   14.7   15.8
21 47 02 +29 30 46   GRV 503   2015   15   331   20.4   11.29   11.3
21 47 24 +28 54 54   AG 420   2015   14   145   7.5   11.1   11.9
21 51 53 +42 20 38   HO 172 AB   2015   16   82   10.6   7.93   11.26
21 52 52 +39 00 57   SEI 1542   2015   10   172   29.7   12.41   12.25
22 01 34 +49 21 09   ABH 156 AL   2015   5   298   44.9   9.55   14.4
22 02 57 +44 38 60   BU 694 AB   2016   40   7   1   5.71   7.76

Marvin Jenkins · February 1

Is that some kind of spam?

Richard N · February 1

An example part of my list is here. As can be seen some only appear to have been observed once - and a very long time ago! I'm wondering if some of these were recorded with the wrong RA and Dec?

SEI 895 for example, does not seem to exist. Some do, some don't. I was alerted to this as Deep Sky Planner automatically downloads images and in some cases there is no obvious star (or binary) at the centre of the frame - hence I looked using Aladin.

Edited February 1 by Richard N

Spile · February 1

Whenever I need to check or confirm details of a double star I always refer to Stelle Doppie

https://www.stelledoppie.it/

lunator · February 1

Hi Richard, I always check the notes file in the WDS.

It looks like SEI895 is a spurious double.

20075+3236 SEI 895 Neither component seen on POSS plate; may be flaws on AC Potsdam plate .

Cheers

Ian

Richard N · February 1

2 minutes ago, lunator said:

Hi Richard, I always check the notes file in the WDS.

It looks like SEI895 is a spurious double.

20075+3236 SEI 895 Neither component seen on POSS plate; may be flaws on AC Potsdam plate .

Cheers

Ian

Ahh. Thanks. That will save me some time. I thought the lists were cleaned but apparently not. The single observation was certainly ringing alarm bells with me.

lunator · February 1

Hi Richard

The WDS is a brilliant resource, but it is not perfect 😀.

I have been involved in correcting a dozen or so errors. I quite enjoy this aspect of the hobby.

If you look at the notes column in the WDS the spurious pars have an X in the column.

Cheers

Ian

lunator · February 2

A classic case of the invisible double is STF1143. It has only been observed once but is still in the WDS. I have spent a few hours just scanning that area of sky to see if there might be something nearby. The current view is written up in the notes.

Some error in position. See note in BDS II. Bu_1906.

This may be STF1134AB with a larger error than is typical for a FGW Struve measure. Alternatively, this may be the same as STF1141

Bugdozer · February 2

It's possible the lists can be wrong. Look at NGC - even after they revised it to correct duplicates, things in the wrong place and things that didn't exist, they STILL had errors in it.

The60mmKid · February 8

This, of course, depends on how we theorize existence. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/existence/

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