Stupid FOV/eyepiece preference question…..

[Neutrinosoup]

If my favourite two eyepiece designs for both comfort and experience are the TV Delos and Panoptic & I couldn’t  stand the Radian eyepieces (which I sold) —> will I likely not get on with the Delite eyepieces? They seem closer to the Radians than Delos in terms of FOV…

I’m not sure what makes an individual “enjoy” one eyepiece but hate another! 

[Louis D]

The Delites have neither the SAEP nor the coffee tone of the Radians.  They are basically a scaled down version of the Delos which are basically a scaled down version of the Ethos themselves.  Paul Dellechiaie did all three designs.  I've read that rare earth glasses were avoided due to their prohibitive cost.  They also are the most likely cause of the coffee tone found in many older Tele Vue designs.

If you like the Delos, but find they are too bulky, the Delites are probably for you.

[John]

Eyepieces are a very personal thing. I can't say that I have come across many (any ?) that I actually hated through. Some seem more natural to use than others and that is influenced by a whole range of factors such as observing preferences, scope type, glasses wearer or not, and even facial shape. 

The Delite is the one Tele Vue range that I have yet to experience so I can't speak for those. All the other ranges I have generally got on fine with (even the Radians) so I guess that I would probably like a Delite as well 🙂

I think you have to find out for yourself what floats your boat and what does not - thank goodness for the 2nd hand equipment market 👍

Also, I think tastes change with time / experience. I didn't really hit it off in the past with the Nagler zoom 3-6mm (despite trying 2 of them) but over the past few years I've grown very fond of the 2-4mm version of the same eyepiece. Go figure, as our US friends have a habit of saying 🙂

Edited December 30, 2023 by John

[Don Pensack]

Alternative: Baader Morpheus eyepieces.

A bit wider than the Delos and just as easy to use.  Also, slightly smaller and less expensive.

[Mr Spock]

Just curious - if you have Panoptics and Delos', why are you considering Delites?

[NGC 1502]

If you didn’t like Radians then it’s likely you won’t like Delites.  I’ve used a friends Delites at my clubs dark site, only perceived difference with my Radians was the weight, Delites much lighter, that could be an attraction for you.

The combination of Panoptics for low power and Delos for medium to high is a match made in heaven. Panoptic 27/35/41 have good eye relief and 68 degree apparent field so are effectively low power Delos.

 

[Captain Scarlet]

I would counter by saying that if you like the Delos, you'll like the DeLite. They both have 20mm eye relief and are each to my mind superb. I have 5 Delos and 4 DeLite and get on with them extremely well and equally. I used to have 2 Ethos but the eye relief was just too short for me with glasses. I sold the 4.7 and am considering selling the 13, which is hanging in there by its fingernails.

Magnus

[Bivanus]

Yeah, but until I need glasses : Nagler 🧐

[NGC 1502]

10 minutes ago, Bivanus said:

Yeah, but until I need glasses : Nagler 🧐

I get that, however higher powers produce smaller exit pupils and lessen the need for using glasses. With my 10” f4.8 my 11mm and 7mm Naglers give 2.3mm and 1.48mm exit pupils.  Depends a lot on the observers personal eye issues.

[Neutrinosoup]

10 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

Just curious - if you have Panoptics and Delos', why are you considering Delites?

Considering 1 or 2 for a small travel case when I visit my parents, Delos are big…..and I only have the 24mm panoptic 

Option 1 = Get the Baader zoom….

Option 2 = Take my Panoptic 24, and buy Delite 11/13 and Delite 5/7

(For use with a 72mm apo, focal length 430)

[Alan White]

TeleVue has a good range of eyepieces,

I need longer eyerelief due to astigmatism, so as much as I liked the Panoptics, they were not for me with glasses.

I have DeLites and Delos and Pentax XW and Morpheus, each has positives and each has its issues to me.
Of them all the DeLites just work.

The friend mentioned above with DeLites was probably myself and I have used Ed’s Radians and agree they are more similar than not.
Delites to me do have easier eye placement than the Radians at shorter fl. But that’s me, my face shape and eye socket depth and shape.

We all latch onto differing issues with eyepieces, they are so personal, it’s impossible to say this works for me, so it will work for you here.  You need to work out what you didn’t like about the Radians and consider that when looking at others.

Eyepieces are a journey for many, me included, the ones that just work are the ones to keep.

[John]

I have a travel scope similar to yours (70mm ED refractor F/420mm in my case). My main eyepieces for my regular scopes are Pentax XW, Delos, Panoptic, Nagler and Ethos but for travel (and outreach) I have the Baader 8-24 zoom, a Maxvision 20mm SWA for 3 degree+ true fields and the Svbony 3-8mm zoom for higher powers. These 3 are more readily packable and obviously less costly than the Tele Vue / Pentax options but still decent performers. The Svbony zoom gets used a lot in all my scopes in fact - a very useful, and useable, eyepiece 🙂 

Edited December 31, 2023 by John

[Ricochet]

1 hour ago, Neutrinosoup said:

Considering 1 or 2 for a small travel case when I visit my parents, Delos are big…..and I only have the 24mm panoptic 

Option 1 = Get the Baader zoom….

Option 2 = Take my Panoptic 24, and buy Delite 11/13 and Delite 5/7

(For use with a 72mm apo, focal length 430)

I have a 72ED and use 24 Panoptic, 13 Delite and 3-6 Nagler zoom. The only change I might make is to swap the 13 Delite for a 13 Nagler T6, which is also a small eyepiece. 

Given you currently use Delos I think you would be disappointed with the correction level and reflections in the BHZ at f6.

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, Neutrinosoup said:

Considering 1 or 2 for a small travel case when I visit my parents, Delos are big…..and I only have the 24mm panoptic 

Option 1 = Get the Baader zoom….

Option 2 = Take my Panoptic 24, and buy Delite 11/13 and Delite 5/7

(For use with a 72mm apo, focal length 430)

For travel compactness, you might consider getting the APM Superzoom as it would cover 7.7mm to 15.4mm with better correction and wider field at the long end than the BHZ.  At the short end, the Svbony 3-8mm might work for you despite its short eye relief.  Just some more options for you to consider.

[Second Time Around]

+1 for the APM Superzoom.  It's by far my most used eyepiece and even better than my Baader zoom.

Rather than the Svbony zoom I use the APM zoom plus a Barlow as that gives more eye relief and a wider FOV.  The Barlow also makes the APM more parfocal.

Edited January 1 by Second Time Around
Spelling

[John]

If you go for the APM zoom be prepared to use a 2 inch diagonal with your scope, if you don't already. The APM zoom is much better used in 2 inch mode because in 1.25 inch mode it needs a lot of inwards focuser travel to reach focus. More than many scopes have available.

Otherwise, it is a good zoom option.

[Louis D]

8 hours ago, Second Time Around said:

Rather than the Svbony zoom I use the APM zoom plus a Barlow as that gives more eye relief and a wider FOV.  The Barlow also makes the APM more parfocal.

I had thought about recommending that, but I was unsure what magnification factor a Barlow would yield in 1.25" mode given that the SZ's focal plane is 32mm above the 1.25" shoulder.  By my way of thinking, it would be larger than the rated magnification.  Thus, if used with a 2x Barlow, you would skip some of the 6mm to 8mm range in all likelihood.

I thought about buying one of Don's SZ's at his closeout pricing as a Christmas present, but I just didn't think it would have enough eye relief for me and my eyeglasses.

[Second Time Around]

8 hours ago, John said:

If you go for the APM zoom be prepared to use a 2 inch diagonal with your scope, if you don't already. The APM zoom is much better used in 2 inch mode because in 1.25 inch mode it needs a lot of inwards focuser travel to reach focus. More than many scopes have available.

Otherwise, it is a good zoom option.

Good point.  However, in my refractors I don't need to go up to a full 2 inch diagonal.  Instead I use the excellent Baader T2 prism that's intermediate in size, and have no problem.  The APM zoom also works well in my OOUK Dobs in either 1.25 or 2 inch mode.

[Second Time Around]

I did a series of tests on a variety of Barlows (including with the lens cell only when this is detachable) on my APM zoom.  Here are the results:

1.25 inch mode

FLO Astro-Essentials 2x Barlow (probably the GSO) - cell only - 1.97x

FLO Astro Essentials 2x Barlow (probably the GSO) - complete - 2.63x

Baader 2.25x zoom Barlow - cell only - 2.48x

Baader 2.25x zoom Barlow - complete - 2.75x

APM 2.75x Barlow - cell only - 1.89x

APM 2.75x Barlow - complete - 3.28x

 

2 inch mode

FLO Astro Essentials 2x Barlow (probably the GSO) - cell only - 1.87x

FLO Astro Essentials 2x  Barlow (probably the GSO) - see below*

Baader 2.25x zoom Barlow - cell only - 2.33x

Baader 2.25x zoom Barlow - complete - 2.54x

APM 2.75x Barlow - cell only - 1.83x

APM 2.75x Barlow - complete - 3.07x

* not tested as APM zoom set screw too big and needs replacing with a smaller one

 

I usually use my APM zoom with just the lens cell of my nominal 2x Astro Essentials Barlow (GSO) from First Light Optics, or just the lens cell of my nominal 2.75x APM Barlow.  In each case this gives just under 2x amplification, so gives me all the focal lengths from 15.4mm down to about 4mm.  If I want even more magnification I use the complete Barlow lens.  For still more magnification I add 1 or more inexpensive Baader extension tubes when in 1.25x mode.  Each of these adds about 0.25x amplification.  Go to https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/baader-dt-4-1-31-8mm-nosepiece-extension-18mm-long.html

I've just bought but not yet used an Omegon/TS glass path corrector.  This has a nominal amplification of 1.6x in a binoviewer, but 1.30x with the APM zoom in 1.25 inch mode.  It doesn't fit in 2 inch mode.

 

Edited January 1 by Second Time Around
Clarity

[John]

40 minutes ago, Second Time Around said:

Good point.  However, in my refractors I don't need to go up to a full 2 inch diagonal.  Instead I use the excellent Baader T2 prism that's intermediate in size, and have no problem.  The APM zoom also works well in my OOUK Dobs in either 1.25 or 2 inch mode.

I was thinking of the earlier posters 72mm F/6 refractor.

Speaking for my requirements, while optically very good, I wanted to use the APM zoom with my Tak FC100-DL in which I use a Baader T2 Zeiss prism with a 1.25 inch adapter fitted (as I do with my 1.25 inch eyepiece set) but found that it needed more inwards focuser travel in that mode than I wanted to use. 

In 2 inch mode the APM zoom worked fine with my other scopes and the Tak of course, if I chose to put a 2 inch diagonal in it.

I'm glad I was able to borrow the APM zoom to see what it is all about though 🙂

I had borrowed an Svbony 3-8mm zoom at the same time and that one ticked a few more boxes with me so I bought one of my own.

Anyhow, lots of options have been explored in this thread - I hope that has been some help to those who are considering options 🙂

Edited January 1 by John

[Second Time Around]

John, it was my 72mm f/6 I was referring to.  However, it's an earlier model from Altair Astro with I believe a shorter main tube, so may have more infocus as result.

[John]

Just now, Second Time Around said:

John, it was my 72mm f/6 I was referring to.  However, it's an earlier model from Altair Astro with I believe a shorter main tube, so may have more infocus as result.

Mine is an early one as well. 

The APM would have been too bulky for me to consider as a travel eyepiece though. I saw it as a potential replacement for my Delos 14mm and Pentax XW 10mm within the 1.25 inch set that I use with my 100mm-130mm refractors and especially in the Tak. 

 

[Louis D]

4 hours ago, John said:

it needed more inwards focuser travel in that mode than I wanted to use.

I had forgotten the 1.25" in-focus issue as another reason I didn't buy it.  My primary use of zooms is with my old ST80 which is 1.25" only and has limited in-focus available.  The APM SZ would have been unusable in that scope to replace my Celestron Regal 8-24mm zoom.  I take that scope and zoom on the road to chase solar eclipses because if my car is broken into while on the road and my equipment gets stolen, I'm not out a whole lot of money.  Eclipses don't always happen in the nicest of places, and neither are the places I sometimes have to stay on the road there or back.

[Voxish]

Interesting. I have both Radians and Delites. I can not see any of the coffee tone some on the other channel seem obsessed with (several threads on the topic). The same thing is often said about TV plossls, a warm or coffee tone that is. Personally I prefer Radians to Delites, they are just a little more comfortable and the build quality is better, in my opinion anyway. Panoptics for me were horrible kidney bean enducing things. I bought two together years ago and sold them together a few weeks later, I just didn’t enjoy the experience or views with the 24 mm so I bought a 32 mm TV plossl and added a eye extender.  I have used Radian for years, I almost have a full set but can’t find the outstanding 6 mm. Never ever had any kidney beaning like I had with panoptics, but there you. Very, very personal things eyepieces aren’t they. BTW if you still have a 6mm Radian then I am absolutely a player. 

Edited January 4 by Voxish
Missed words

[John]

1 hour ago, Voxish said:

Interesting. I have both Radians and Delites. I can not see any of the coffee tone some on the other channel seem obsessed with (several threads on the topic). The same thing is often said about TV plossls, a warm or coffee tone that is. Personally I prefer Radians to Delites, they are just a little more comfortable and the build quality is better, in my opinion anyway. Panoptics for me were horrible kidney bean enducing things. I bought two together years ago and sold them together a few weeks later, I just didn’t enjoy the experience or views with the 24 mm so I bought a 32 mm TV plossl and added a eye extender.  I have used Radian for years, I almost have a full set but can’t find the outstanding 6 mm. Never ever had any kidney beaning like I had with panoptics, but there you. Very, very personal things eyepieces aren’t they. BTW if you still have a 6mm Radian then I am absolutely a player. 

I've never noticed the "coffee tone" on those eyepieces either. Some eyepieces do have a slightly different tone to the views but I haven't found those variations annoying or distracting. 

The only Panoptic that I have owned is the 24mm and I don't find kidney beaning an issue with it myself. As you so rightly say though, eyepiece preferences do seem very personal. Perhaps more so than most other items of equipment. I guess that is because the eyepiece creates the connection between the human system and the optical system and that intimacy makes us very sensitive to their characteristics and how they match (or don't match) ours 🤔 

 

Edited January 4 by John