I learnt a lesson tonight

[Samop]

I'm very new at this astronomy game and still not totally comfortable with how to drive my telescope and mount. I've just got an RA motor but haven't used it yet.

So I came home at around 11pm and saw Jupiter shining brightly and thought "wow, I'v got to have a look..."

I took me ages to get the telescope set up in the dark, probably nowhere near polar aligned. I couldn't work out how to actuallly point the 'scope with the RA motor attached; everything got wet with the condensation and I got a back ache leaning over the scope trying to see anything. I didn't get to see anything before I gave up

So what I learned was... unless I'm really confident with setting up and aligning don't try an improptu session... it'll just depress me.

I'm going to bed now.

[Louis D]

You learned that an alt-az mount is a much better choice for a grab and go setup.  That, and having your scope setup at the right height to enable sitting while observing is essential to avoiding backaches.

[apaulo]

Better to practice working with and setting up your gear during daylight hours. The more time spent with your gear the easier it becomes.

[Simone_DB]

6 hours ago, Samop said:

I'm very new at this astronomy game and still not totally comfortable with how to drive my telescope and mount. I've just got an RA motor but haven't used it yet.

So I came home at around 11pm and saw Jupiter shining brightly and thought "wow, I'v got to have a look..."

I took me ages to get the telescope set up in the dark, probably nowhere near polar aligned. I couldn't work out how to actuallly point the 'scope with the RA motor attached; everything got wet with the condensation and I got a back ache leaning over the scope trying to see anything. I didn't get to see anything before I gave up

So what I learned was... unless I'm really confident with setting up and aligning don't try an improptu session... it'll just depress me.

I'm going to bed now.

Hello, I almost feel obligated to chime in here. I'm feeling a bit like you these days. This passion requires patience and dedication. There quite a few issues you have to learn to cope with, especially at the beginning I guess, while you make experience and processes become gradually easier as you exercise. I'm 1,98m tall (6' 6'' ft) and I can't extend the tripod legs alone, because of the weight, and can't left them extended because it fits millimetrically in the place where I stow it. So I'm beginning to get that the backache I have these days are due to the recent sessions.

And in these last two sessions, I really got almost nothing of what happened, and I was just trying to align the scope. The first times, when you tipically experience the "beginners luck" I manage to align it fairly and the mount pointed the planets quite right. Two days ago, after a 3-star alignement, tried three times, the scope seems to move randomly. 

The only advice I can give you, if you really are passionate, is not to give up. Read your manuals, watch videos, ask knowledgeable people and results will come.

You have a matter to settle with Jupiter, it seems. So try again! if you have just to observe it, point one leg of your tripod towards the polar star, counterweights parallel to the leg. Adjust the elevation accordingly to your latitude and you should be able to move the scope in RA and DEC easily to find the planet.

Keep us updated! 🙂

[Stu]

6 hours ago, Samop said:

I'm very new at this astronomy game and still not totally comfortable with how to drive my telescope and mount. I've just got an RA motor but haven't used it yet.

So I came home at around 11pm and saw Jupiter shining brightly and thought "wow, I'v got to have a look..."

I took me ages to get the telescope set up in the dark, probably nowhere near polar aligned. I couldn't work out how to actuallly point the 'scope with the RA motor attached; everything got wet with the condensation and I got a back ache leaning over the scope trying to see anything. I didn't get to see anything before I gave up

So what I learned was... unless I'm really confident with setting up and aligning don't try an improptu session... it'll just depress me.

I'm going to bed now.

We’ve all been there, don’t worry. It can be highly frustrating at times. I’ve been struggling with the poor weather so have hardly observed at all this summer.

Setting up an EQ mount for simple visual use is very easy once you’ve got the hang of it. Set the altitude setting to your latitude, then just plonk it down on a level surface with the polar axis pointing north (there may even be an N on the mount to help you). Once done, loosen the clutches and point the scope where you want it, tighten clutches and then use the slo motion controls to move the telescope, or let the RA motor drive it to track the object.

As has been said, plenty of videos out there, but for visual use don’t worry about accurate polar alignment, it just wastes valuable observing time. All it means is that you will have to make the odd correction with the DEC control to keep the object centred.

23 minutes ago, Simone_DB said:

I'm 1,98m tall (6' 6'' ft) and I can't extend the tripod legs alone, because of the weight, and can't left them extended because it fits millimetrically in the place where I stow it. So I'm beginning to get that the backache I have these days are due to the recent sessions.

Have you considered an observing chair? I have one which goes down very low (and high!), so it makes observing much more comfortable for those high up objects. Much easier on the back and also keeps you more relaxed and stable so you see more.

[badhex]

When I first started out in Astronomy I also had an EQ mount, and it took some time to get used to all the various steps needed to get set up. Sometimes early on, my alignment was so far out that my mount may as well have been and alt-az, I was having to adjust in both axes throughout!

Like @Louis D said, as a visual observer I don't typically use EQ mounts or goto mounts these days because a manual alt-az is arguably the easiest to get set up for a quick session.

However, practice does make perfect, so don't get too disheartened - you can and will learn how to get set up quickly and with enough accuracy with your EQ mount for a quick session - and you don't have to be completely spot on every time unless you're doing something really critical. In some ways, those quick sessions may actually help you since that's probably what you'll get the most of.

Not sure what mount you have, but you mentioned not being sure how to point with the RA motor attached. Sounds like it might be a mount where you can disengage the motor altogether? My first mount was the same. If you're a bit unsure at the moment, start by learning how to move the mount around without the motor engaged, so you can get the feel for it. Much easier to make corrections just using your hands. It might be worth 'sacrificing' a night (maybe when conditions are not so perfect) to take your time getting everything setup correctly just so you feel more comfortable with what goes where, what does what - similar to what @apaulo suggested. 

Depending where you observe, you might also want to mark out where your tripod legs go for acceptable alignment with chalk if it's a patio for example. I also mark my dovetails with a small piece of tape so I know where the approx balance point is. All these small tricks can shave off a bit of time and help you to get set up more quickly.  

Overall, don't lose heart! With all this cloud and limited observing opportunities it may have felt like a blow, but it's just an early step on a long road - when you get Jupiter and other wonderful objects in the eyepiece it will all be worth it! 

Edited October 31, 2023 by badhex

[maw lod qan]

You will have bad nights, and good nights. Taking them all in stride it's like falling off the bicycle thing.

But when everything falls into place and you go wow, that's when you forget those other nights.

Hang in there.

[Simone_DB]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

We’ve all been there, don’t worry. It can be highly frustrating at times. I’ve been struggling with the poor weather so have hardly observed at all this summer.

Setting up an EQ mount for simple visual use is very easy once you’ve got the hang of it. Set the altitude setting to your latitude, then just plonk it down on a level surface with the polar axis pointing north (there may even be an N on the mount to help you). Once done, loosen the clutches and point the scope where you want it, tighten clutches and then use the slo motion controls to move the telescope, or let the RA motor drive it to track the object.

As has been said, plenty of videos out there, but for visual use don’t worry about accurate polar alignment, it just wastes valuable observing time. All it means is that you will have to make the odd correction with the DEC control to keep the object centred.

Have you considered an observing chair? I have one which goes down very low (and high!), so it makes observing much more comfortable for those high up objects. Much easier on the back and also keeps you more relaxed and stable so you see more.

No, I tried to use some chairs that we have on the terrace, but they never seem to be at the right height 😀! So I bend, lean, take knees and...suffer! Are there chairs actually made for such a purpose? I'll make a research, since I'm gettin an idea about how much is important to be comfortable and saving energy. Do you have any suggestion on a specific seat or chair? Thanks!

And since we're here I have a question that I didn't see addressed on my manuals: is there a specific initial orientation of the tube (ocular/finder scope wise), say when the scope is in the "home" position, to allieviate the comfort issue? Or does the ocular may end up in any position so that there's no a sensible answer to that? I hope that makes sense.

Edit: maybe a chair like the that?

Edited October 31, 2023 by Simone_DB

[wookie1965]

Have you got a polar scope in the mount?   I have a EQ5 goto takes me 10 minutes set up I have my tripod legs marked up so I am north faced and aligned I use a small level to check the tripod is horizontal.

I then put the mount on and polar align which with a app is dead easy as it gives me all the information I need to put in the handset.

Obviously you dont need to do this once you have polar aligned and gone to your first object engage your RA motor and for several minutes it will be in the FOV.

Dont get disheartened it used to take me 45mins to set up.

[Louis D]

3 hours ago, Simone_DB said:

And since we're here I have a question that I didn't see addressed on my manuals: is there a specific initial orientation of the tube (ocular/finder scope wise), say when the scope is in the "home" position, to allieviate the comfort issue? Or does the ocular may end up in any position so that there's no a sensible answer to that? I hope that makes sense.

We'd kind of need to know which type of telescope you have to answer this.  I suspect you have a Newtonian with the focuser sticking out of the tube near the top.  The eyepiece will end up pointing in all sorts of weird directions depending on where the scope is pointed when mounted on an EQ mount.  If this is the case, you can put a large hose (jubilee?) clamp or embroidery ring or similar ring around the tube just above the upper tube ring and then loosen the tube rings just enough to allow it to be rotated with a slight bit of effort.  The extra ring keeps the tube from sliding out of the main rings when loosened.  You may want to put some non-marring material between the tube and clamp/ring.

If you've got a refractor, SCT, or Mak, just rotate the diagonal to the most comfortable viewing position.

[Simone_DB]

41 minutes ago, Louis D said:

We'd kind of need to know which type of telescope you have to answer this.  I suspect you have a Newtonian with the focuser sticking out of the tube near the top.  The eyepiece will end up pointing in all sorts of weird directions depending on where the scope is pointed when mounted on an EQ mount.  If this is the case, you can put a large hose (jubilee?) clamp or embroidery ring or similar ring around the tube just above the upper tube ring and then loosen the tube rings just enough to allow it to be rotated with a slight bit of effort.  The extra ring keeps the tube from sliding out of the main rings when loosened.  You may want to put some non-marring material between the tube and clamp/ring.

If you've got a refractor, SCT, or Mak, just rotate the diagonal to the most comfortable viewing position.

Thank you Louis D. You guessed it right, I got the scope you described. I apologize for wasting your time with multiple response, so I added my equipment to the signature field. You gave me a good suggestion and also made me realize that rotating the tube in session doesn't spoil anything (or so I inferred), which was my main concern. Thanks again!

[Samop]

Thanks for your words of encouragement.

I bought the 'scope early this year and it clouded over as I opened the box so I really haven't had much of an opportunity to practice with it in the warm evenings... but I will play during the daytime to get familiar with how it works (particulaly the mount, which at this stage seems to me to be totally un-intuitive).

I think I probbaly should get one of those prism/mirror things that goes on the end of the finder scope that enables you to look "sideways" rather than along the length of the scope... that'll definitely help the back problems. - can you buy these seperately as an attachment?

There doesn't seem to be any way to disengage the RA motor other than undoing the grub screw, but that seems a recipe for loosing things in the dark.

Cheers

Edited October 31, 2023 by Samop

[Louis D]

You would need to replace the entire finder scope with a RACI (Right Angle Correct Image) finder scope.  To fit a diagonal to the back end of one would necessitate cutting down the tube length to account for the additional optical path length of the diagonal.

[Samop]

2 hours ago, Louis D said:

You would need to replace the entire finder scope......

Oh, I was sure I'd seen an attachment somewhere but I 'd obviously got hold of the wrong end of the stick.

Something (else) for the Christmas present list then

[doublevodka]

This hobby can be frustrating to us all that's for sure, we've all had nights like you at some point so stick with it, the buzz you get when you first see Jupiter and Saturn will more than make up for it and it's something that you will remember for years to come 👍

As others have said, practice in the daytime with your setup, it really makes it easier and it's a weird thing to say for a man, but reading the manuals really helps too 😂

[Paz]

On 31/10/2023 at 09:03, Simone_DB said:

 Edit: maybe a chair like the that?

I would recommend a chair like this picture. I have had one for years, it looks rickety but it is infinitely adjustable and works.

I would also recommend just setting up and taking down your scope indoors once a night a few times and you'll iron out any issues without getting cold and demoralised.

I still sometimes do this if I'm out of practice.

[Simone_DB]

1 hour ago, Paz said:

I would recommend a chair like this picture. I have had one for years, it looks rickety but it is infinitely adjustable and works.

I would also recommend just setting up and taking down your scope indoors once a night a few times and you'll iron out any issues without getting cold and demoralised.

I still sometimes do this if I'm out of practice.

Hi Paz, thanks a lot! Luckily things are going better, at least with the alignment. Of course I still do awkard things*, but slowly I feel more confident about the basic operation while I exercise. thanks for the suggestion about the chair, I'll see if I can get one!

*A couple of days ago, for example, this happened: I had just finished with the alignment, which took me half an hour or so, so I took the eyepiece off in order to put the dslr in. But I didn't tighten AC and/or DEC levers properly so, the mount moves because of the weight of the camera...😬So I proceed to swear to all the Gods I know of, and started off, swearing along for all the time needed! I'm pretty sure this little story awoke memories of some people here...🙂

[The60mmKid]

You'll get the hang of it! It all gets easier with practice! Before you know it, you'll be aligning your finderscope while collimating your mirrors while brushing your teeth while singing 😎 Hang in there!

[bomberbaz]

On 31/10/2023 at 15:55, Samop said:

There doesn't seem to be any way to disengage the RA motor other than undoing the grub screw, but that seems a recipe for loosing things in the dark.

I owned one of these RA motors way back for a short time, found I had the same problems with the RA motor your experiencing, so got rid of it.

I then simply used the slow motion controllers to manually track, far easier to get along with.

Oh as for converting straight through finders to RACI, there is a kit out there but it costs more than a new one anyway, thinkn it is only for certain finders and you would be better just getting a new one.  Astro Essentials 9x50 Right-Angled, Erecting Finderscope | First Light Optics

Edited November 23, 2023 by bomberbaz