m81 how to get a better image

[tim r]

this image is 3hrs 300 seconds stacked in app and finished with the app tools to the best of my ability. my question how much could it be made better with any other type of software thanks timesprit_m81-RGB-session_1-St.tiff

30_m81-RGB-session_1.fits esprit_m81-RGB-session_1-St.tiff

Edited March 18, 2023 by tim r
photo

[wimvb]

I just downloaded the fits image, and here is my first impression:

Your darks are not correcting your lights the way they should. The ampglow from your camera (an ASI294??) is overcorrected. Are you sure that the darks match the lights in temperature, gain, offset and exposure time?

You have half of M82 in your frame. I would crop that out.

The image is still very noisy. You probably have light pollution and need more data to bring the noise down.

I will process the image in PixInsight and get back with the results.

[wimvb]

Here's my attempt. There's some ifn coming through, but unfortunately also the residual of the amp glow

[tim r]

That 100 percent better ,my 1st go with app and not really ever stacked the darks we’re done day after.. Thanks give me something to think about. 

[tim r]

57 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Here's my attempt. There's some ifn coming through, but unfortunately also the residual of the amp glow

Is pixinsight as hard to use as I’m led to believe 

[wimvb]

Just now, tim r said:

Is pixinsight as hard to use as I’m led to believe 

Not in my opinion, no. But it's a very powerful program, and for a beginner it's easy to get overwhelmed by its functionalities. Unlike a few years ago, there are now many youtube tutorials that will help you along the way.

[tim r]

36 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Not in my opinion, no. But it's a very powerful program, and for a beginner it's easy to get overwhelmed by its functionalities. Unlike a few years ago, there are now many youtube tutorials that will help you along the way.

Would you buy pixinsight over app I’ve got the trial version at the moment thanks for all your help..

[wimvb]

6 minutes ago, tim r said:

Would you buy pixinsight over app I’ve got the trial version at the moment thanks for all your help..

I don't have any experience with APP, but I wouldn't hesitate to buy PI if I didn't already have it. As the saying goes, "you get what you pay for". With PI you really get a lot for what you pay.

[tomato]

Pixinsight will do the whole of the processing operation, calibration alignment stacking then every conceivable processing operation thereafter. APP does the same but in my opinion leads you down a somewhat more straightforward path. 
I use APP for calibration, stacking, LP removal and mosaic construction, PI for everything else. If I could only have one it would be PI, but a couple of years ago my choice would have been APP.

[Enceladus Dan]

6 hours ago, tim r said:

Would you buy pixinsight over app I’ve got the trial version at the moment thanks for all your 

I just bought PI and find it worth every penny. I did try it twice on a trial which is 45 days long each go. Being new to any sort of image processing it was a learning curve, but any choice of program would have been for me. 

As mentioned by Wim there are some good tutorials on YouTube, I liked ones by Lukomatico who is very clear and easy to follow. He also provides data to use and follow with him. I spent my trials following his guides and using the workflows on some of my old data with much better results. This convinced me to go ahead with the purchase, even if I have only used it once since due to the terrible UK weather so far this year. 

Clear skies 

Danny

 

[Lumos]

When I started in astrophotography I went straight to Pixinsight. It was such a great decision for me, I simply love the application. Its metaphors are different but when you get the hang of it it is a thing of wonder. 

Check out Adam Block's tutorials and maybe just invest in his Fundamentals course Adam Block Studios

Adam is an extraordinary educator.

I think that Pixinsight gets a bad reputation from people who tried it and tried to use it using intuition, then they say that it is complex and hard.  Sure, it is complex but it needs to do complex things. However, so much is automated with great defaults you can get the benefit of its extreme power without the extreme brain damage. Their Weighted Batch Pre Processing on default settings will assess all your subs, apply all the calibration frames to them, sorts them out, aligns them, does cosmetic correction and so much more at the push of a single button. Often I just tell it the directory to work on that is jumbled up with bias, darks, flats and lights and it automatically works out which flats to use with which lights. 

 

[tim r]

I’m thinking of buying pixinsight might be better to learn from scratch without using app too much and getting used to its process. Buying the 2 sounds a costly way to go (no change there then). Will download trail version today and see if I can get my old brain around it, thanks for all the input didn’t expect this and sending me on my way…

[Enceladus Dan]

Definitely do the trial, it's a full version for 45 days. Get as much practice as you can, try some videos with data to follow the steps. Then try some of your own to see how it works for you. 

I was trying DSS and gimp and siril in January for my comet ZTF image and couldn't get anything to work. PI did it perfectly, with some youtube help. 

Good luck

Danny

[tomato]

Apologies, a bit late with my processing effort. I used the LP removal and star colour calibration tools in APP, BlurXtermintor and StarXterminator in PI, then used the clone tool on the starless image in AP  to remove the ampglow artefact from the background. More Histogram transformation and curves in PI then recombine with Pixelmath and NoiseXterminator to finish. M81 still looks a bit too green to me, even though I applied SCNR.

[tim r]

2 hours ago, tomato said:

Apologies, a bit late with my processing effort. I used the LP removal and star colour calibration tools in APP, BlurXtermintor and StarXterminator in PI, then used the clone tool on the starless image in AP  to remove the ampglow artefact from the background. More Histogram transformation and curves in PI then recombine with Pixelmath and NoiseXterminator to finish. M81 still looks a bit too green to me, even though I applied SCNR.

Thanks for that I’m blown away with the detail you both have pulled out of my image,I read what you did to the image if I’m honest it was all Greek to me I’ve got so much to learn.

[ollypenrice]

Being promiscuous, my data are stacked in APP then Pixinsight for DBE, SCNR and crtitically, Blur Xterminator, after which it is Photoshop all the way. Do not under-estimate Photoshop. If you like to see what you are doing, as you are doing it, Phtoshop it is.

Olly

[Elp]

Also a supporter of manual processing as you learn more about image editing and can apply the same skills to daytime images (or any images), though I use Siril for pre processing (which has transformed my editing) and sometimes starnet. This is around 20 minutes in PS, I lost the star colour which I normally get back via Photometric Colour Correction in Siril, your original image was quite good I think:

[tim r]

42 minutes ago, Elp said:

Also a supporter of manual processing as you learn more about image editing and can apply the same skills to daytime images (or any images), though I use Siril for pre processing (which has transformed my editing) and sometimes starnet. This is around 20 minutes in PS, I lost the star colour which I normally get back via Photometric Colour Correction in Siril, your original image was quite good I think:

I’d settle for any 3 of the images, thanks again to everybody like a said gives me something to aim at (no pun intended)..

[tomato]

The huge positive is you are collecting great data, don’t underestimate that achievement. As you can see, there are several ways to skin the image processing cat, fortunately you can try most of them out on free trials. 
 

I don’t find processing easy or particularly enjoyable, but the Russell Croman Xterminator suite of tools mentioned several times above, have been a game changer for me.

[alacant]

On 18/03/2023 at 14:53, tim r said:

any other type of software

Hi

Nice shot and excellent detail. There's the 294 glow artefact which is easy to eliminate using temperature matched dark frames. You could probably still do this with the existing light frames. Oh, and a small nudge to the telecope and you'd have captured m82 as well.

I use StarTools. It has tracking which is held in a database. The big advantage of this is that the next process knows exactly what's happened previously and acts accordingly. You can go back and redo whatever you messed up first time at any stage of the process and Its modern SVDecon and star handling modules obviate the need for extra plug-ins. Its fast and uses the GPU to offload the heavy lifting processes.

5 minutes taking mostly default values. Sorry, I'm hopeless on colour!

Cheers and HTH

[scotty38]

Just to add to this I have used both APP and PI. I decided fairly early on that most, if not all, the processing would be done in PI but i paid for APP just for mosaics if nothing else. However, the one thing that made me not renew was the fact that it stripped all the FITs information when stacking. I asked and asked about this and it was always just coming but at the point I gave in it wasn't there. It may be now I have no idea but I have no need to go back to it.

Additionally the documentation and instructional videos available for PI are a ridiculous magnitude better than APP, just my opinion though...