Viewing Mars

[billy86]

Hi guy's and girls

I'm a complete newbie.  I've purchased the skywatcher 130 heritage, i managed to get some amazing views of the moon last night with it but when i try to view mars it appears as a bright star not sure whether i was expecting more or I'm using the incorrect eyepiece? 

Any advised would be appreciated 

Thanks,

Billy

 

[cloudsweeper]

Billy - Mars can be a bit of a let-down compared with the Moon.  At first, you will probably just see a bright red object, bigger than a star.  With practice, you can make out some shading, or even an ice-cap. Depends on conditions and how close Mars is to Earth.  You can increase the mag and make it a little bit larger and less bright.  Keep trying and practising is the best advice I can give.

Doug.

Edited January 30, 2023 by cloudsweeper

[Stu1smartcookie]

Hi Billy i second what Doug has written ... i viewed Mars last night with an 8" dobsonian and only just made out some surface shading ... The planet is fading in magnitude quite quickly now and, even at its best , visually, it can be a let down . In fact Mars is a planet that you have to view for quite sometime before it gives you too much in return . Don't be too hard on yourself or the equipment .. it really is  difficult  to observe . 

Stu

[mikeDnight]

Hi Billy,

All good advice so far, and what Stu says in the above post about observing Mars for "quite some time before it gives you too much in return" is so true.  I consider myself quite experienced with Mars, but when I look through the eyepiece, I usually see a tiny bland disc. Only rarely does detail jump out at me, so I have to be patient, make sure the scope is critically focused, and after a short time the often very subtle detail gradually reveals itself.  Don't look for hard detail on Mars, but rather think in terms of subtle differences in shade and colour. You may then begin to see the white polar cap if its visible, also some of the darker albedo features, and bright clouds along the limb and terminator. If you make a rough sketch of what you think you're seeing, it may surprise you just how much detail is actually on that tiny disc.  You'll need to use 120X as a bare minimum but 180X should be better. Mars is shrinking in the eyepiece as its distance between it and the earth increases, so it's going to be a challenge but don't give up. Currently its around 11 arc seconds in diameter but I've seen detail on it when its been less than 5 arc seconds. 

Here's a sketch from December made using a 60mm refractor. It looks quite impressive, but its important to remember that sketches represent what was seen over an extended period, not what is immediately seen through the eyepiece. Remember that critical focus is vital, and focus changes constantly because of the atmosphere were having to look though.

Edited January 30, 2023 by mikeDnight

[Carbon Brush]

Hi Billy. Welcome to SGL.

Don't forget the viewing/seeing in terms of sky transparency and stability does change by the hour.
Tomorrow may be better.

As an example of how things can change quickly.
A few years ago when Mars was in a good position for viewing, a club about 25 miles from me were holding an open evening. So I thought it a good opportunity to have a peek through their scopes.

Before leaving home I took a look with my scope and saw little more than a red blob.
At the club I saw Mars with subtle colour/shading and a definite polar cap.
I had mixed thoughts. Great views 😁. But my scope must have a problem 🤔😡.
After getting home I went back to my scope. I had just as good views as the club bigger and more expensive scope😁 because the sky conditions had changed.

The stock 10mm eyepieces provided with scopes are known for their variable quality. Anythng from mediocre to worse.
Scope collimation may be a bit off.
Either may have limited your view.

Don't consign your scope to a dusty cupboard, or go spending again. Enjoy the scope and get the feel for performance on other targets.
After you have used it a few times you will know more about the strengths and weakenesses, allowing an informed decision on the next move.

Keep looking and keep asking the questions.

David.

 

[bosun21]

Are you using a barlow lens? With a relatively short focal length a barlow can be a great tool when viewing the planets (especially Mars). The BST Starguider 3.2mm has some good feedback when used with your scope.

[Ratlet]

I use a Skywatcher 130PDS for viewing which is the same aperture and focal length as you.  Initially and for a long time my observations of Mars amounted to "It was orange" That was with either 8mm or 4mm focal length (8mm BST starguider without and with x2 barlow).  This would have been in the run up to the mars opposition so it was a bit bigger.  Time and experience will make a big change.

I ended up doing quite a bit of incrimental improvements to be able to see anything, learning how to collimate and understanding when it was good, learning what good and poor seeing looked like and how to tell if I had pushed it too far.  I ended up flocking my tube to prevent reflections inside the tube.  Ultimately more time at the eyepiece made a big difference.  I ended up swapping the eyepiece for an svbony 3-8mm zoon and bought a cheap skyglow and yellow filter (the filters cost £10 for the pair).  Ultimately the filters made the biggest difference on mars and jupiter too, but there was all the intermediate bits in between.

Mars will be more challenging at the moment in part because it will look smaller.  You can see on the link below what you would see if you looked at it now and use that to give you an anchor of where the darker patches should be.  Just remember in a Newtonian you need to rotate the image 90 degrees.  But for me, I'd working my way through cheapest options to improve the view and the absolute cheapest is more time at the eyepiece.

https://skymarvels.com/infopages/vids/Mars - Current 001.htm

[RT65CB-SWL]

Mars is challenging at the best of times and has since gone past opposition a few months ago, so the angular size is now getting smaller.

Using a #23A [red] filter may help bring out some detail. A contrast booster or neodymium filter may bring out some detail too. 

The last time I saw any ‘decent’ detail was opposition during 2001 and I even got to see one of the polar ice caps with my TeleVue Ranger and an 8mm Plossl e/p… [and without a filter]. An afocal image below taken at the time with a digital compact camera [Ricoh RDC-6000] handheld over the e/p. The polar ice cap [just visible] is at ten o’clock. The view with the eye was much better.

Edited February 1, 2023 by Philip R

[Nicola Fletcher]

I’m really glad you’ve asked this question as I’ve been observing for a few years and still haven’t figured out Mars!

I was all geared up for the opposition this year but only saw a red over-bright disc through my 3 and 4” refractors. I think I just need to have more patience and keep trying. I suspect the conditions just weren’t good enough each time I tried observing it. I also doubt I gave it enough time - I just got frustrated and moved on to other targets!

Your post and the encouraging answers have made me determined to keep trying. Thank you!

Edited January 30, 2023 by Nicola Fletcher

[billy86]

Thanks for the advice everyone much appreciated.👍

I managed to get great views of Jupiter this evening with four moons it was a great moment.

 

[Stu]

I’m a bit late to this thread so apologies for that. You’ve already had some great advice so I won’t go over that, but thought I would add a few additional comments.

I have some very nice and expensive apo refractors, and I’ve also owned both a Heritage 130p and a 150p. There have been times when the humble Skywatchers have, well, humbled the more expensive scopes due to their very decent optics and their larger aperture (eg the 130p vs a 100mm apo). So, don’t think that because it’s supposedly a beginner scope that it is not capable of very good results.

There are a couple of threads below, admittedly regarding the 150p but the 130p will not be far behind these results.

Another factor will be eyepieces. The standard ones are not the best, and for a demanding target like Mars, some upgrades may well help. They don’t need to cost a fortune, something like the BST Starguiders would do a good job.

Mars, as has been said, can be a tricky customer and as well as seeing conditions also understand that it presents different faces as it rotates, sometimes more bland and others, for instance when Syrtis Major is visible, when it is easier to see the surface detail.

Tonight for example, I was observing with a 4” apo refractor at around x250 and Mars was showing some good detail despite its relatively small size now; Syrtis Major and a bright oval feature called Hellas Planitia were showing well. This was despite the seeing not being the best.

Many people say that Mars is very disappointing. I’m my experience it is anything but. Challenging? Yes of course, but at its best, when at Opposition and with excellent seeing conditions it can look like a twin of Earth, with the appearance of red ‘seas’ and dark ‘land masses’, plus polar caps and frosting. Quite amazing and well worth persevering with.

[Stu]

On 30/01/2023 at 20:14, Nicola Fletcher said:

I was all geared up for the opposition this year but only saw a red over-bright disc through my 3 and 4” refractors.

Your four inch should be capable of showing detail Nicola. What eyepieces/magnification were you trying?

[Nicola Fletcher]

21 minutes ago, Stu said:

Your four inch should be capable of showing detail Nicola. What eyepieces/magnification were you trying?

I used a Tak prism diagonal and my 9mm Nagler followed by the 3-6mm Nagler zoom. Everything just looked over bright with colour fringing (the scope is an Altair Starwave apo and I definitely gave it plenty of time to cool). I have a set of Celestron planetary filters and tried the red and yellow ones but both just made everything so dull it was difficult to see anything. I doubt the equipment was at fault so maybe it was the weather/me/lack of patience. I realise Mars is a challenging target but honestly I thought I’d see some features!

Any advice would be gratefully received 😊

Edited January 31, 2023 by Nicola Fletcher

[Stu]

11 minutes ago, Nicola Fletcher said:

I used a Tak prism diagonal and my 9mm Nagler followed by the 3-6mm Nagler zoom. Everything just looked over bright with colour fringing (the scope is an Altair Starwave apo and I definitely gave it plenty of time to cool). I have a set of Celestron planetary filters and tried the red and yellow ones but both just made everything so dull it was difficult to see anything. I doubt the equipment was at fault so maybe it was the weather/me/lack of patience. I realise Mars is a challenging target but honestly I thought I’d see some features!

Any advice would be gratefully received 😊

Sounds like the kit is fine, the Nag Zoom is no slouch, same as the Tak prism.

I would suggest having another go over the next week if you can, Syrtis Major is visible currently and that is one of the easier features to see. As I’ve mentioned, in my FC100 I easily saw it, plus the bright oval of Hellas Planitia in the south and the frosting in the North and that was despite relatively poor seeing. The Starwave should be capable of similar results I think.

[Nicola Fletcher]

9 hours ago, Stu said:

Sounds like the kit is fine, the Nag Zoom is no slouch, same as the Tak prism.

I would suggest having another go over the next week if you can, Syrtis Major is visible currently and that is one of the easier features to see. As I’ve mentioned, in my FC100 I easily saw it, plus the bright oval of Hellas Planitia in the south and the frosting in the North and that was despite relatively poor seeing. The Starwave should be capable of similar results I think.

I’ll keep trying - I’ll get there eventually! Thanks for your help!

[PeterStudz]

I’ve really enjoyed viewing Mars over the last 7 months and it’s exceeded my expectations. Although maybe my expectations weren’t high!

This has been my first Mars opposition having started in this hobby just after the last - 2 years ago. The only other time I’ve seen Mars was in a small refractor that my parents bought me as a boy back in mid 1970-something. Then Mars was no more than a disappointing, small featureless orangey dot. So this time I was determined to give it a really good go using my 200p Dob.

I started looking back in late June & early July, getting up in the early hours. Then it was obviously tiny and far from a complete disc. But back then there was a very distinctive icecap at the South Pole. You just could not miss it - it glowed and very different from the later Polar Hood (clouds) that have a more frosted appearance. Sometime around early August that icecap vanished. I’m sure that observing Mars over and over again has helped. Of course some nights were disappointing, some better than others. But I’ve been able to make out albedo features most of the time. As has been pointed out - some sides/faces of Mars are far more interesting than others.

For me these are some things that have helped. Although you might already know some or all of these…

I have a DIY EQ platform. Having Mars hang in the centre of the FOV without having to constantly nudge really helps with picking out details.

I’ve fully flocked the OTA. The difference it makes is subtle and usually I can’t see any difference, but I’m convinced it helps when trying to see the subtle details in contrast with objects like Mars.

Make sure your telescope is fully cooled. Most of the time I can get away with 30mins. But for Mars I found that I needed my Dob cooling for a good hour. The difference here was really significant.

Use a dew shield to help keep out any stray light. I’m in a urban environment and unfortunately there’s plenty of that. 

When Mars was really bright, eg around opposition I found that a variable polarising filter helped. But not so much before & after. Apart from a blue filter, which would occasionally help bring out anything white, I didn’t find colour filters made much difference. 

And this last one has been very important for me - do NOT get your eyes use to the dark. When your eyes are dark adapted you lose  most of your ability to see any contrast in colours. And you are looking for subtle contrast on something small. I’d look at the screen on my phone, or go back inside the house for a bit, then back at the eyepiece.

Of course Mars is getting small now and is no longer a full disc. But it’s still worth giving a go. I wonder when a polar ice cap will return and if we’ll be able to see it? I last saw Mars on Monday, 6th Feb. and I was surprised how good the seeing was. I was able to get the magnification up to x375 which is a first for me. I even got a smartphone snap too. It does show the phase that Mars is in, Syrtis Major, the North Polar hood (at the top) plus a few other albedo features. It’s a higher contrast image of what I could visually see on the night.

[dweller25]

What @PeterStudz said is spot on 👍

[jetstream]

There are a lot of features Mars will show when things are right including light cloud. The H130 does a vg job on Mars and will show nice detail. Cooling, collimation must be done and seeing is the next key factor.One thing- the f5 shows a very bright image with a lot of eyepieces. Getting the mag way up there-requiring vg seeing- will help tame down the image brightness.

@Stu being a seasoned and excellent observer is doing this with his f7.5(?) 100mm . At 250x mag hes using a 3mm eyepiece, giving a .4mm exit pupil. Not only does this enlarge the image but the low exit pupil tones down the image brightness, enhancing contrast. Stu I assumed f7.5 for this.

@PeterStudz is doing the same thing at f6 . Hes around .5mm exit pupil. 1200/75=3.2mm EP 3.2/6=.53 exit pupil.

This is an important consideration not only for maximizing your existing set up, but future scope choices for planetary. In my mind this factor is why many say long focal length scopes get the "planetary" designation, as you can potentially control image brightness at lower, more useable mags.

To the OP @billy86 cool and collimate this scope accurately and then when seeing is vg crank up the mag with a good 3mm-4mm eyepiece. This should tame down Mars brightness and give very nice shading features and much more. I use a 3-6 Nagler zoom, but there are nice less expensive choices out there and I'll even use short orthos with this scope.

Keep eyepiece weight below about 12oz on the H130. Youll be amazed at what this scope will do on Mars under good conditions.

Gerry

 

[jetstream]

@billy86 pay attention to what this dude says @dweller25 in posts 👍

[Bogmonster]

Just want to chip in here and add to what has been said. I'm also a complete newbie and have only had 3 chances to get out and observe. It's been really cloudy here and last night I got a bit in before the clouds rolled back in on me.

I've seen Mars twice and it's definitely a little underwhelming. I don't think it's the right time of the year as it's pretty far away right now (correct me if I'm wrong here).

First time it was just a white disc and almost looked like a phase of the moon. Maybe a little orange after staring at it a while.

Last night it looked more orange. I got it in focus pretty good and I tried to make out some detail but nothing really stuck out at me. I don't think conditions were perfect but I definitely was happy with what I saw. And even though it was just an orange disc, I still found myself staring at it for about 15 or more minutes. I'm hoping next time I get out I'll see a bit more detail there.

Any tips or tricks on getting the best views? Or what time of the year is best?

Cheers!

[Franklin]

Mars was at Opposition (closest to Earth) back in December 22 and that was the best time to observe it. Oppositions of Mars come around once every two years approx. No harm in taking a look at either side of Opposition but Mars is becoming very small now.

[Ratlet]

If you want an idea of how much mars size has changed this website is pretty good:

https://skymarvels.com/infopages/vids/Mars - Current 001.htm

It shows the most variation in size of all the planets if I recall.

[Stu1smartcookie]

34 minutes ago, Bogmonster said:

Any tips or tricks on getting the best views? Or what time of the year is best?

Hi @Bogmonster... the "trick" with Mars observe it as much as possible . It doesn't give up its secrets too easily and is a difficult planet to view ( even more so now ) . Even at opposition  details were not that forthcoming on the planet , although with patience surface detail was apparent , but , when the planet is at opposition is the best time to view it . 

[Bogmonster]

10 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Hi @Bogmonster... the "trick" with Mars observe it as much as possible . It doesn't give up its secrets too easily and is a difficult planet to view ( even more so now ) . Even at opposition  details were not that forthcoming on the planet , although with patience surface detail was apparent , but , when the planet is at opposition is the best time to view it . 

Thank you! I'm still figuring it all out. Am I correct in saying that Mars is in opposition every 2 years?

[Franklin]

2 hours ago, Bogmonster said:

Am I correct in saying that Mars is in opposition every 2 years?

Yes, because Earth is inside the orbit of Mars we overtake it and by the time we've gone round the Sun (1 year) Mars has moved further around it's orbit, so it takes us another year to catch it up. Opposition is where two planets are closest to each other in their orbits and when this occurs they appear at their largest in a telescope.