A few ASIAIR Mini questions.

[Trippelforge]

Hi guys!

I have been looking at the ASIAIR Mini for awhile, and finally got my new motor drive system setup (which is compatible), and already questioning life due to the elements. I read through the product page and a bit confused on how exactly certain things work. First of all my assumption was that you connected your rig to the ASIAIR and it transmitted to your PC, Interfacing with your AP software. So using it pretty much kept everything the same, only allowing you to do your sessions remotely. But then I started noticing things on the product page which started to make me completely confused. 

For one there is a DSLR shutter release port. But up until this point I connected my camera via USB, and allowed NINA to snap the images. Furthermore the unit has a memory card slot, so I am going to assume it controls the camera via a shutter cable, then saves the image first to the memory card (which is fine), then transmits it to your PC. However it also mentions nothing about PC support, only Android and ios... So that kind of caused a head scratch. So does that mean that image acquisition is handled by the ASIAIR itself via an app? SO does that mean you can't control anything via NINA or APT?

Lastly, how good of Wifi distance are you guys getting? It claims 20m, but real world is sometimes different. If I want to be inside (which that's the point) I am going to be near the limit, although my router is pretty powerful so maybe that will help. ALTHOUGH now I am wondering if it connects into your network, or only via your phone. I really confused at this point.

If anyone can give me some insight on how the system works, I really would appreciate it. The concept of it seems amazing, but there is no way I would want to run it via an app.  

 

[StevieDvd]

Okay some easy questions to answer:

The Asiair Mini is a small computer with an internal storage with it's own operating system. It has no memory card slot (like the previous models and the Asiair Plus have). You can save images to USB drives/sticks if a free USB is available once you connected  everything.

It runs the processes on the Asiair but allows control from a remote mobile/pad IOS or Android. There is no official PC support  - you'd have to use some form of Emulator that could run the app (possible but tricky for the non-technical).

There is a list of supported DSLR - most of which just use a USB cable to control, the shutter release port is for older types.

Wifi on the models with external external is a lot better than the old models. I control my Asiair Plus from inside the house or garage so brick wall between me and the mount.

It's designed for use on a mobile phone or tablet with touch control.  I find a decent sized tablet is best and I have the knowledge/option to use a PC for control. When you do the PA process you need the screen next to the mount anyway.

The system is locked down to the extent that, apart from a few DSLR brands, all the hardware needs to be ZWO.  The end user has no access to the OS so no other software can be loaded.

[Elp]

The whole point of it (or any RPI or mini pc equivalent) is that you take the pc out of the equation for image acquisition.

It's probably the easiest system I've used. I had distance transmission issues with a pro (gen 2) and a quad antenna usb WiFi range extender which was connected to it, so I bought a mini and it solved it. Transmitting around 15M diagonally up to first floor through one brick wall, you have to be within a certain position (ie it doesn't work solidly throughout the entire room) but I regularly get around 1-4 MBps image transfer speed throughout a session so I can keep an eye on what it's doing.

It should be able to connect to your home router if you know how to configure WiFi networks, this is what I had to do with my pro and external antenna, set it up in station mode. Then all you need to keep on you is your phone to connect via the app.

I'm a bit cautious about their emmc memory integration though, last session with my mini it said the disk was full even though I had cleared it, restarted it etc. Had to switch to my pro which I've never had any major issue with as that one uses a micro SD card.

Edited January 27, 2023 by Elp

[Trippelforge]

OK so, you connect your laptop and take care of the focus and alignment process prior. Then switch over to the ASIAIR and go inside and control it via the app. I think I get it now, although it kind of sucks that it doesn't have PC support (I don't own a tablet). If I understand it right all images are stored on a USB drive, but you can download one here and there to your phone to check on things. How well does the software actually work, are there features comparable to PC AP software in regards to viewing / analyzing?

I am getting tired having to go outside constantly to check on everything as I don't exactly have a premier setup. I am actually REALLY excited over the idea of avoiding mosquitoes over the summer!

[StevieDvd]

No laptop needed until post processing.

You would PA and set the main camera focus, then go inside.  At the end of your session send the mount to home position and switch off.

All post- processing is done on your main computer. Images can be copied over a network (before turning the Asiair off) or via USB

I go outside to setup the mount, power up and PA then go inside. I go back at the end of the session (or weather changes) just to pack away. Do my processing on a fast Win 11 PC at my leisure.

 

[Elp]

It does everything, it can even stack your images with the latest update. The only thing I find lacking with it is it's planetary image acquisition, it's needs more fine control over image exposure control (it does it in videos too, I prefer to take images for planetary).

It's a well laid out app, on the right hand side everything is in order of how you should do it starting from the top, focus, PA, preview, plan etc etc. With the plan you can set it to take lights, darks, flats etc, change targets throughout the night etc. If you've got the EAF and AFW attached you can automate that too. Note you have to use zwo equipment and cameras other than the few Canon and Nikon DSLRs which are supported. It has an in built stellarium so you can check your framing, you can also import Telescopius coordinates (or edit them into your own) to do mosaics.

You don't need your pc at all whilst taking the images.

It doesn't go into tilt analysis or anything complex, but it uses PHD guiding, has in built histogram, you can annotate images, plate solve, fwhm star focus routine, enough to negate the use of a pc in the field. The mini/gen 1 also can be powered with a usb power bank. From the gen2/pro onward they also have 12v outs so you can power some other equipment (cam cooling, I use one of them to power my azgti).

The images are saved to the internal emmc memory on the newer mini and plus. The gen 1 and gen 2 (pro) use micro SD cards to save to. All have usb ports to attach a usb flash drive into if you want to increase your image capture storage during a session. When it takes images it streams them over WiFi so you can view them on your phone/tablet (they remain stored on the asiair).

Edited January 27, 2023 by Elp

[saac]

1 hour ago, Trippelforge said:

OK so, you connect your laptop and take care of the focus and alignment process prior. Then switch over to the ASIAIR and go inside and control it via the app. I think I get it now, although it kind of sucks that it doesn't have PC support (I don't own a tablet). If I understand it right all images are stored on a USB drive, but you can download one here and there to your phone to check on things. How well does the software actually work, are there features comparable to PC AP software in regards to viewing / analyzing?

I am getting tired having to go outside constantly to check on everything as I don't exactly have a premier setup. I am actually REALLY excited over the idea of avoiding mosquitoes over the summer!

Don't despair re pc support, setting it to run on a pc is an easy enough task.  You simply download and install an emulator such as BlueStacks. Once you have BlueStacks running open it up, navigate to the app store and download and install the ASiAir app just as you would had you been using your phone or iPad. It is that simple.  Once you have the ASiAir app open on your pc you can connect either by wifi or ethernet (ethernet connection not available on eth mini though). Focusing, target selection and framing, plate solving and image acquisition, guiding can all then be handles through the app. Polar alignment is best done at the telescope using a phone/or tablet - however nothing stopping you using your laptop if that is all you have.  The ASiAirs broadcast their own wifi signal which you tell your laptop to connect to.   All in all it is a cracking little device; I have an ASiAir Pro installed in my obsy and connect to it via ethernet and use it to image remotely from the comfort of my study. There is no need for it to connect to NINA or anything else, it does it all, just download your images and go and process them. The latest version of software will even do stacking on the fly. 

BlueStacks

 

Jim 

 

 

[Trippelforge]

Thank you guys for clearing everything up! And thanks Jim for the guide, that might be what I do since looking at a phone screen just seems a bit small. I am not sure how to make it work with my particular drive system, but supposedly it does. My camera was on the compatibility list as well, glad that's something I could check.

I need to get one ordered! 

[saac]

2 minutes ago, Trippelforge said:

Thank you guys for clearing everything up! And thanks Jim for the guide, that might be what I do since looking at a phone screen just seems a bit small. I am not sure how to make it work with my particular drive system, but supposedly it does. My camera was on the compatibility list as well, glad that's something I could check.

I need to get one ordered! 

You will need an ftdi cable to connect the ASiAir to the mount, something like this.  Before you go ahead and commit make sure your mount is compatible and you get the right FTDI cable. Have fun, it really is a great bit of kit.

FTDI Cable

Jim

[jfrijhoff]

Just wondering, if you’re already familiar with NINA and you want to use a laptop, would a mini-pc work in your case?

Not trying to get you away from the mini, looks like a great tool.

Edited January 27, 2023 by jfrijhoff

[Ouroboros]

2 hours ago, saac said:

Don't despair re pc support, setting it to run on a pc is an easy enough task.  You simply download and install an emulator such as BlueStacks. Once you have BlueStacks running open it up, navigate to the app store and download and install the ASiAir app just as you would had you been using your phone or iPad. It is that simple.  Once you have the ASiAir app open on your pc you can connect either by wifi or ethernet (ethernet connection not available on eth mini though). Focusing, target selection and framing, plate solving and image acquisition, guiding can all then be handles through the app. Polar alignment is best done at the telescope using a phone/or tablet - however nothing stopping you using your laptop if that is all you have.  The ASiAirs broadcast their own wifi signal which you tell your laptop to connect to.   All in all it is a cracking little device; I have an ASiAir Pro installed in my obsy and connect to it via ethernet and use it to image remotely from the comfort of my study. There is no need for it to connect to NINA or anything else, it does it all, just download your images and go and process them. The latest version of software will even do stacking on the fly. 

BlueStacks

Jim 

Just out of interest, when using a PC have you tried connecting to the ASIair with a tablet at the same time? I ask because I think it is easier to take a tablet to the scope for PA and focusing than the laptop. 

[saac]

23 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Just out of interest, when using a PC have you tried connecting to the ASIair with a tablet at the same time? I ask because I think it is easier to take a tablet to the scope for PA and focusing than the laptop. 

I do that. I have a mini iPad which I use in the obsy to do the polar align connected to the ASiAir by wifi while the pc is connected to it at the same time by ethernet. I wasn't sure at first if two devices could connect at the same time but from what I remember it seems to work ok. Mind you I don't need to do that often as it is a permeant setup. However, with my RedCat which is not permanently mounted I do exactly the same.  I connect that to the pc over an ethernet cable to the obsy (Powerline adapter) and again use the ipad to do the initial alignment and focus routine. Once that is done I return inside the house and pick it up on the laptop and the ethernet connection. For focusing, I use the inbuilt focus routine - ZWO EAF connected to my setup in the obsy. I haven't got an electronic focuser on the RedCat yet so yes that is done manually at the scope in the garden with the ipad. 

Jim

[Starflyer]

If you're already using NINA then consider getting a mini PC to fix to your scope or mount instead.  You can then easily remote into this from your laptop.

[Ouroboros]

58 minutes ago, saac said:

I do that. I have a mini iPad which I use in the obsy to do the polar align connected to the ASiAir by wifi while the pc is connected to it at the same time by ethernet. I wasn't sure at first if two devices could connect at the same time but from what I remember it seems to work ok. Mind you I don't need to do that often as it is a permeant setup. However, with my RedCat which is not permanently mounted I do exactly the same.  I connect that to the pc over an ethernet cable to the obsy (Powerline adapter) and again use the ipad to do the initial alignment and focus routine. Once that is done I return inside the house and pick it up on the laptop and the ethernet connection. For focusing, I use the inbuilt focus routine - ZWO EAF connected to my setup in the obsy. I haven't got an electronic focuser on the RedCat yet so yes that is done manually at the scope in the garden with the ipad. 

Jim

Aha … nifty. I might give this a go. I’m on a MacBook but I see there’s a version of BlueStacks for MacOS. I don’t mind using the iPad. But I think it might be nicer in someways to be using a bigger screen. 

[saac]

26 minutes ago, Ouroboros said:

Aha … nifty. I might give this a go. I’m on a MacBook but I see there’s a version of BlueStacks for MacOS. I don’t mind using the iPad. But I think it might be nicer in someways to be using a bigger screen. 

Would a MacBook not allow you to download the ASiAir app direct from the apple app store? That way you wouldn't need to run it on BlueStacks?  I have to run it on BlueStacks because ZWO do not make the ASiAir app for pc use, only IOS and android!  BlueStacks emulates  android , I think.  I've not used a MacBook so I'm assuming it can access and run the same apps that are available for apple iPads/phones etc.  I must admit, I do prefer being able to access the ASiAir on the laptop while sitting at the desk, I prefer using the bigger screen and being able to use a mouse rather than touch screen. I think that must be an age thing  

Jim 

[Ouroboros]

As I understand it, @saac, iPad apps won’t run on older Macs. Mine is 8 years old.  However, Apple are unifying their operating systems and apparently iPad apps will run on the new Macs using the M1 chip. Apparently ZWO have enabled their app to do that. Some more info here. 

[satcom221]

The ASI app does work on the new M1 Mac and can connect to the Mini and Pro simultaneously without any issues. 

 

[bosun21]

On 27/01/2023 at 18:40, saac said:

You will need an ftdi cable to connect the ASiAir to the mount,

Only if it’s an older mount without a USB connection.

[900SL]

Don't get a mini. No LAN port, no SD card support, no USB 3 support. The Pro is better (well, for me it is)  

[Elp]

They're not all that bad, I bought one to alleviate the poor WiFi range of my externally extended pro, to which it was the solution I was looking for. I don't however trust the emmc memory, I've had an issue with it once which stopped my session dead, at least with the micro SD card option you could have a backup card with you in case the one in the unit fails for whatever reason, copying the sessions images via the micro SD card was also the fastest way of transferring the files (literally seconds), much faster than the usb C of the mini.