Experienced astronomer seeks scope for 10yo

[MG01]

I say experienced...well not so much in knowledge acquired but I have been at it for about 15 odd years....

Anyhow...our eldest has shown a desire to get his hands on his own scope.  Having after great debate convinced him of the benefits of a newtonian over a refractor I've not been able to sell him on a 6" dob which would be my recommendation to most people in his position...apparently its not telescopy enough.

So he showed me the following on amazon and other than 'don't buy a telescope from amazon' I'm struggling to find much wrong with it and so thought I'd run it by the lounge for a once over!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B000MLL6RS/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_1?smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&psc=1

My main reason for no amazon is concerns over shipping and damage...and for those with less experience, collimation.

I seem to recall celestron make some okay kit, and this is about £100 more expensive elsewhere...so is it worth the risk?

Or should I persist with the 6" dob.

Trouble is, I'd rather he has a less 'optimum' scope he uses than one he doesn't because it's not the one he would choose.

But I also don't want him to be disappointed having spent some time at the eyepiece of our 5" apo and some large dobs at star camp.

What do people think? (Budget £250 ish)

[allworlds]

Over on Reddit it came up that the Astromaster 130 now comes with a poor (spherical) mirror, so it's one to avoid. Really the whole Powerseeker and Astromaster ranges are both not great. I think Skywatcher and Bresser do a better job at the cheap end.

Skywatcher's equivalent, with a parabolic mirror like it should have, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p.html

Personally I don't like Newtonians on equatorial mounts because the eyepiece tends to point in silly directions and the whole tube has to be turned in the rings to orient the eyepiece. (Whereas with a refractor or cassegrain-type you just need to turn the star diagonal.) So I might instead go for something like this.  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/sky-watcher-skyhawk-1145ps-az-pronto.html . I would have bought a Mak-Cass on the same mount myself actually except it went out of stock.

It's overbudget but that same 4 1/2 inch tube is also available on a wifi goto mount, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-go2-telescopes/sky-watcher-skyhawk-1145p-az-go2-wifi-parabolic-newtonian-telescope.html. If your son is like most kids always on a smartphone he might like a telescope he operates from his phone? (On the other hand maybe you'd rather the astronomy gets him away from the gadgets!)

Skywatcher used to make a mount called the Avant, that was advertised as alt-az / equatorial dual mode, so he could try both and find which he prefers. That'd be But it's not in production so unless you get lucky finding some new old stock somewhere (or buy used but I'm guessing you'd prefer brand new for a gift) you're out of luck.

[Kn4fty]

I bought my 8" newt EQ  (Meade LX70 R8) on Amazon years ago. Had no issues with delivery or damage. Didn't even need to collimate it for a long time. As to your youngin wanting an EQ mounted scope, I personally prefer them. Yes ,they require more effort to learn, but I think its worth it. Unfortunately, I haven't messed with that Celestron scope, so don't know much about the quality of it. Hopefully someone here has messed with that model.

Rob

[MG01]

15 hours ago, allworlds said:

Over on Reddit it came up that the Astromaster 130 now comes with a poor (spherical) mirror, so it's one to avoid. Really the whole Powerseeker and Astromaster ranges are both not great. I think Skywatcher and Bresser do a better job at the cheap end.

Skywatcher's equivalent, with a parabolic mirror like it should have, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130p.html

Personally I don't like Newtonians on equatorial mounts because the eyepiece tends to point in silly directions and the whole tube has to be turned in the rings to orient the eyepiece. (Whereas with a refractor or cassegrain-type you just need to turn the star diagonal.) So I might instead go for something like this.  https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/sky-watcher-skyhawk-1145ps-az-pronto.html . I would have bought a Mak-Cass on the same mount myself actually except it went out of stock.

It's overbudget but that same 4 1/2 inch tube is also available on a wifi goto mount, https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-az-go2-telescopes/sky-watcher-skyhawk-1145p-az-go2-wifi-parabolic-newtonian-telescope.html. If your son is like most kids always on a smartphone he might like a telescope he operates from his phone? (On the other hand maybe you'd rather the astronomy gets him away from the gadgets!)

Skywatcher used to make a mount called the Avant, that was advertised as alt-az / equatorial dual mode, so he could try both and find which he prefers. That'd be But it's not in production so unless you get lucky finding some new old stock somewhere (or buy used but I'm guessing you'd prefer brand new for a gift) you're out of luck.

Thanks allworlds...now that you mention it, I recall hearing about spherical vs parabolic mirrors... Are the Bressier newtonians parabolic?

I like the idea of the goto...he's pretty good with tech and it might actually pull him into it a bit more.  Although I think if I did go that sort of price it'd be looking at more aperture I think.  I was already worried about dipping under 6" and I think the 4.5" may be a tad small.

15 hours ago, Kn4fty said:

I bought my 8" newt EQ  (Meade LX70 R8) on Amazon years ago. Had no issues with delivery or damage. Didn't even need to collimate it for a long time. As to your youngin wanting an EQ mounted scope, I personally prefer them. Yes ,they require more effort to learn, but I think its worth it. Unfortunately, I haven't messed with that Celestron scope, so don't know much about the quality of it. Hopefully someone here has messed with that model.

Rob

Thanks Rob, I think he'll be happy with EQ as that's what he has used with our EQ6...

I'll keep looking as it's probably going to be a Christmas prezzie.

[Ricochet]

3 hours ago, MG01 said:

I think the 4.5" may be a tad small.

I think you are right. In addition, they are very fast scopes and I think probably not as well corrected as slower focal ratio options, and so will suffer compared to your APO. 

[PeterStudz]

Have you considered the Skywatcher StarQuest-130p? 

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/sky-watcher-starquest/sky-watcher-starquest-130p-f5-parabolic-newtonian-reflector-telescope.html

It’s in budget, sits on an EQ mount that is far better than an EQ2. There’s a nice honest review of it here by a member of this site…

https://youtu.be/GHdDs2PLIrk

The weakness is in the tripod but it’s not that bad. And upgrading that in the future is possible with some simple DIY - basically a block of wood with a hole in it - as I did. I got the mount only second hand in order to replace the wobbly EQ1 that came with the telescope I got for my daughter - a Skywatcher Skyhawk 1145p. Now, on an EQ5 tripod, the thing is rock solid, a pleasure to use and can be used in both EQ and Alt-Azimuth mode as shown in the video review. As in my pics there is even a nifty little motor drive that can be used for basic tracking. 

[MG01]

Thanks Peter, that looks like a solid choice.  Love the profile pic btw...awesome enthusiasm!

[imakebeer]

Hi @MG01 - I'm a newbie so treat my words with caution! 😂

"My" scope actually isn't mine at all, it's my daughter's - we bought our for her 8th birthday, she's nearly 10 now.

This is what we have:

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-capricorn-70-eq1-telescope.html

To my mind it delivers tremendous entry level bang for buck.

I've described here what you can see with it and if you go to the top of that thread you'll see some pics (the photo gear is all mine btw!😂 ) Lunar shot here too

My daughter needs me to do the setting up but likes what she can see. Actually getting cold is more of an issue for her! In time I hope I can help her learn to do it for herself 👍

[MG01]

That's great @imakebeer - If i'm honest I sort of dismissed small refractors as the mantra has always been aperture is king...But then again I'm hearing more good things about these start scopes from skywatcher so will definitely add one to the shortlist.  The main benefit is simplicity as they don't need collimating or cooling down...although the smaller newts don't take that long to cool. We do already have a small short tube 66mm refractor that we absolutely love to bits.  As you've experienced they are awesome for planets and lunar.

Have to say I'm loving re-learning the sky already with my kids...I think goto and astrophotography have made me less of an astronomer and more of a rig builder as the challenges are different.  But children certainly keep you on your toes with questions and are forcing me to star hop a little more.

[Elp]

If they've looked through your apo and dobs at star camp, looking at home will be a whole other ball game, especially if you have light pollution or in a medium to high bortle zone like my 7. You'll need the largest aperture you can afford, otherwise you won't see much DSO at all, even clusters, let alone being able to find them. You'll likely be limited to the solar system objects. I haven't gone beyond a C6, I suspect even with a 12 I won't visually see much, who knows until I try it.

Edited November 6, 2022 by Elp

[happy-kat]

The telescope starquest linked to further up I gather has a tripod that can be used in either EQ or Altaz, with a motor drive can be added to for when in EQ configuration plus it's the many used parabolic f5 mirror. Keeping the tripod legs not fully extended can help with stability. Though if there's desire to use it to image what's seen then reaching focus with a DSLR might not be possible as too little inward focus travel.

The 102mm mak starquest looks interesting.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by happy-kat

[McQ]

As a former 10-year-old that insisted on having a Newtonian because aperture is king, bang for the buck, etc., I now know I would have been happier with a refractor in the 102mm or larger category. However, I didn't have anyone to help guide me, no internet, and not even telescope books in our local libraries. Decades hence, I have a 90mm Mak, an XT6, and Starhopper8, guess which one goes outside more often ... the 90mm. I'm thinking of selling it and the XT6 and buying either a larger Mak or a refractor. Dobs are nice for a planned viewing evening or event but when I notice it's clear and Mars is burning orange in the sky (like tonight) it's the 90 I grab. I can have it set up and viewing and back in the house before the Dob cooled down. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by McQ

[PeterStudz]

21 hours ago, MG01 said:

Thanks Peter, that looks like a solid choice.  Love the profile pic btw...awesome enthusiasm!

Thank you! It’s been enormous fun doing something together. Although of course there have been frustrations and disappointments. This hobby and when learning something totally new that’s to be expected. The photo was taken on Christmas Day 2020. I did want a small Dob but at that time, during the pandemic, I couldn’t find anything. The 1145p, purchased in a bit of a panic, could have been a disaster but in the end it wasn’t and I don’t regret it. 

Totally unsuitable for a then 9 yr old I/we got to like an EQ mount. Sure, dad has to set it up each time but she can understand what I’m doing. And for visual setting up now just means using a compass to point it north. As our garden faces SE most targets are in that area, so as long as the eyepiece is set good for that part of the sky there isn’t any need to rotate the tube. Being able to track gives more time to look at objects, change eyepieces etc and relax a little more. A bonus when things are so new. 

We do now have a 200p Dob (given free by a member here with issues that are now fixed). But the little 1145p still gets used and complements the Dob. Eg we have a solar filter for it and we even took it on holiday on an aircraft using the old aluminium tripod packed in the hold. The OTA, mount and accessories in a small carry on case. 

Anyway, I’ve waffled on enough. Good luck with whatever you purchase for him!

[AstroMuni]

On 04/11/2022 at 23:27, MG01 said:

I seem to recall celestron make some okay kit, and this is about £100 more expensive elsewhere...so is it worth the risk?

If he insists on buying something of his choice, its not a bad scope even for AP (see my signature). The option provided by Peter is probably your best bet for the budget.

[Mr Spock]

That Starquest 130 looks like a bargain. I wish I'd started with one of those instead of a pesky 60mm refractor.

[StarryEyed]

Show him the forum and this thread the pictures posted and the other astronomers on hete recommended the above and that hes free to ask questions. 

[bosun21]

On 06/11/2022 at 11:43, MG01 said:

Thanks Peter, that looks like a solid choice.  Love the profile pic btw...awesome enthusiasm!

They don’t come with that tripod though. They have a light aluminum tripod which is pretty shaky 

[MG01]

3 hours ago, Mr Spock said:

That Starquest 130 looks like a bargain. I wish I'd started with one of those instead of a pesky 60mm refractor.

It's looking like a favourite at the moment. 

3 hours ago, StarryEyed said:

Show him the forum and this thread the pictures posted and the other astronomers on hete recommended the above and that hes free to ask questions. 

Great idea!

2 hours ago, bosun21 said:

They don’t come with that tripod though. They have a light aluminum tripod which is pretty shaky 

Yeah I gathered that.  I have some pads that might help initially as least.

[PeterStudz]

4 hours ago, bosun21 said:

They don’t come with that tripod though. They have a light aluminum tripod which is pretty shaky 

I got the EQ5 type tripod second hand from a member on here for £70. It was just to show that it’s possible to upgrade without breaking the bank.

The shaky aluminium tripod can be improved with some basic DIY. Eg anti-vibration pads might help. Having had one I know the issues. The legs are hollow and when moved tend to vibrate a bit like the stings on a musical instrument. Some sturdy jubilee clips around the legs help damped things out. And I remember that a member in here filled the legs with sand and said that it made a significant difference. 

[MG01]

9 minutes ago, PeterStudz said:

I got the EQ5 type tripod second hand from a member on here for £70. It was just to show that it’s possible to upgrade without breaking the bank.

The shaky aluminium tripod can be improved with some basic DIY. Eg anti-vibration pads might help. Having had one I know the issues. The legs are hollow and when moved tend to vibrate a bit like the stings on a musical instrument. Some sturdy jubilee clips around the legs help damped things out. And I remember that a member in here filled the legs with sand and said that it made a significant difference. 

funnily enough I filled my EQ6 2" steel legs with concrete and lead. I kid you not!  The legs alone weigh in at 17.5kg now and are even more solid than they were before hand.  I only did it because I know the height I image at ( almost as low as possible) and don't need much adjustment!  I'm sure we'll figure something out.  

What were the wooden discs for on your EQ5's?

[PeterStudz]

4 minutes ago, MG01 said:

What were the wooden discs for on your EQ5's?

The discs/block is just a riser so that:-

1. I don’t need to cut/remove the north pin on the tripod which this mount doesn’t accommodate.

2. It lifts the OTA just enough to prevent it colliding with the tripod legs when observing at certain positions near zenith. The aluminium tripod doesn’t have that issue as the legs don’t spread out as far - another reason why it’s less stable. 

I might but something in the DIY section that explains it in a bit more detail. 

[AstroMuni]

@MG01 There is a Starquest 130p scope on ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/255815751638?hash=item3b8fce97d6:g:TX0AAOSwGtJjaUeH&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoLIgO0USoth4AT5vwXYMr8eGweQlJ901ybDQPRjr0xpDxBgjL36HG559sqnaKgbxcDpVSxhPEwy0t9KDLYSb4fh%2Ba5HTI39CaTtIvMOaZOCeWH7TYQvYOsytC5YKXRfNWSpesiBdplKiBOlzse7nMsh0Rd3A1Kidpn3amjV3CJa9MXVxCf62sTBm7z9Cmbx40WnfA6X8vtNePMKzzQIGosY%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6jivbmLYQ

And the SW 130p too https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334618851482?epid=2255631135&hash=item4de8d6789a:g:JBUAAOSweO5jaAI1&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAoEFvchG4ZFtAlZBXgHIKaL62CP2h7Q8m9YmBxkoyDWFeYLugYspBzVso2RJ%2BlgRJz7uN8WKJaO6a%2FpjhH%2Fnk0MOI0Pk03E9zkStJ5pb3RtuwTxRv2T9WCTwZbobUNV%2F0FrwQjFXv9oGMTDie%2Fy6VgGlBDPClWHuwI4L13IP5omk64grNpjNjNNUG3CGxNXzWTNBfkciFO91e6KN3MEETebQ%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR6jivbmLYQ