Frustrating! Where are you, M33?!

[Thingo]

Dear all,

I had an observation session yesterday from my balcony where I got some ok views of Uranus, M31, M42 and M45 with my WO Zenithstar126mm. Conditions were not ideal, quite a bit of light polution here at class 4-5, there's a city in the direction I was viewing (west/south-west). As I was viewing from my balcony, I could not look straight up or in the other direction. Anyway, I was quite happy with what I had still seen given the circumstances when I attempted to find M33. Unfortunately, I just couldn't find it and I'm asking myself what on earth went wrong... I'm quite certain that I had found the right area by star jumping, but I couldn't see even the faintest smudge, neither in the telescope or in my finder scope or binoculars. To my understanding, M33 should be bright enough to see also in the conditions I've described but since I couldn't find it, I reach out to you to hear what you believe may be the reason that I couldn't see it 🙂

 

[Pixies]

M33 is very faint! It's visual magnitude of 5.8 sounds bright, but the galaxy is face-on and that light is spread out over a large area 

It took me over 18 months before I actually observed it, and that involved a lot of practice chasing down faint objects over that period. Had I been in darker skies, it would have been a lot easier.

Basically, you need dark skies and some experience before you can observe M33! So don't worry, you are far from alone with your frustration!

 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Pixies

[jetstream]

1 hour ago, Thingo said:

I reach out to you to hear what you believe may be the reason that I couldn't see it 🙂

I presume you used the 31mm EP?

M33 is a very big, low surface brightness object and to just "see" it responds to lower mag than you think. In the H130 a 24mm ES 68 presents a "bright puffball" (from dark skies). Up the mag and details spread out and then disappear.

In addition to dark skies, very low mag can help pull M33 out. I use a 42mm EP in my f7-f7.5 fracs on it.

[Jiggy 67]

M33 is very…..very susceptible to light pollution, due to its size and low surface brightness as a result of it’s angle in relation to us so you need dark skies but with patience you can observe it in brighter skies. I’m a Bortle 8 and I’ve observed it -with an 8” reflector-as a large smudge with a brighter core but no detail of the spiral arms

Edited February 27, 2022 by Jiggy 67

[jetstream]

What I find interesting is the whole Blackwell, Clark data and the OMVA deal. Basically it says to enlarge an object enough to see it- and at some point the reduction in eye illumination (exit pupil) will outweigh the positive effect of the increasing mag.

More interesting to me are large objects and the effect of decreasing mag ( thereby upping eye illumination).

Because many objects are already "too large", decreasing their size to the OMVA using low mag high illumination can reap nice rewards. In the extreme were talking "detection" - not great views, but detection.

To the OP, from your location, dropping the mag might work and you will be looking for a roundish "shade difference" to the sky. You will have to play with the mags, to find the optimum but I do believe you will see M33.

https://clarkvision.com/visastro/omva1/

[bomberbaz]

As per the above comments, M33 is a blighter to see. I have managed a few times and seen it well twice. Both those under exceptional skies with a big dob.

For me a larger eye pupil with dark skies are the key. As i remember I was around 3.5mm exit pupil.

[RobertI]

The best view I have had of M33 was  at a dark site with 10x50 binoculars. I couldn’t believe how bright it seemed, given that from my back garden it’s a struggle at best and on poor nights, it’s just plain invisible. 

[Captain Scarlet]

50 minutes ago, RobertI said:

The best view I have had of M33 was  at a dark site with 10x50 binoculars. I couldn’t believe how bright it seemed, given that from my back garden it’s a struggle at best and on poor nights, it’s just plain invisible. 

I was going to say I’ve always found the easiest way to find M33 is with binoculars. Pan around the general area and suddenly you’ll ask yourself “ooh what’s that?” a faint bleary patch and there you are

[jetstream]

I find M33 and M101 similar in nature, both offer very nice detail when conditions allow and the equipment is well matched. I really like the "skewed S" arms in M33 and M101 offers a very delicate mass of spiral arms, spectacular in nature.

On a dark site trip another object that will give up its spirals is M81-  I see 2 short staccato spikes for spirals, buried in the glow.

The objects mentioned highlight the fact that matching the EP to the object (and conditions) is truly important.IMHO.

Edited February 28, 2022 by jetstream

[bomberbaz]

11 hours ago, RobertI said:

The best view I have had of M33 was  at a dark site with 10x50 binoculars. I couldn’t believe how bright it seemed, given that from my back garden it’s a struggle at best and on poor nights, it’s just plain invisible. 

Something to be said for this, I have found it twice with my big bins and both times was fairly easy. My best views as already mentioned were at a mega dark site. It was so good it gavee an animated view in as much as the galaxy arms appeared to be actually moving.

[AstroMuni]

On 27/02/2022 at 14:04, Thingo said:

Unfortunately, I just couldn't find it and I'm asking myself what on earth went wrong... I'm quite certain that I had found the right area by star jumping, but I couldn't see even the faintest smudge, neither in the telescope or in my finder scope or binoculars.

I would suggest you use an app like Skeye or SkySafari on your phone to point you in the right area. And then you could use bins to see if the object is visible. Skeye has a push-to functionality as well that should allow you to attach the phone to your scope and help you reach the right spot. Good luck

[Double Kick Drum]

Hi

 

i think most contributors have already covered off the low surface brightness of M33. I usually see it as a large dim face on smudge in semi-rural skies.

 

M81 and M82 in UMa are better targets at this time of year. Both are quite bright and tolerate some light pollution , although are smaller. They are visible in the same FOV (depending on your choice of eyepiece) and present themselves at different angles.

 

Leo also has a number of brighter galaxies which can be seen as pairs or greater. M65/M66 and M95/M96/M105 are good examples as well as NGC2903 in the lion’s head, which is an easier find.

[Capt Slog]

I just looked at my records, and found that when I saw M33, I was on holiday in Wales where the skies were a bit darker, bortle 4 instead of the 6 i have at home.  I can't recall seeing it, but I would guess it was the usual ...  "if that is that star, and that one there is that star, then that barely visible haze two lengths from them must be XYZ"