Been told to avoid an ASI183MC camera...advice needed please

[dazzystar]

Hi All,

I live in B7 skies and looking for my first DSO camera. I've been told to stay clear of the ZWO ASI183MC camera as it suffers with terrible amp glow. Not sure if a) that's true, b) do all 183's have this issue and c) is there a way to mitigate this?

Welcome to advice on alternatives as well.

Cheers

Daz

[scotty38]

Not sure how bad or otherwise a 183 is but yes the amp glow can be removed using calibration frames.

[happy-kat]

you could search astrobin using asi183 as the imaging camera to see what has been captured and whether it would be similar to your setup whilst waiting for replies, though you may want to share what lens or telescope you intend to use as well

I think on ZWO website they cover amp go

Edited January 3, 2022 by happy-kat

[vlaiv]

2 hours ago, dazzystar said:

Not sure if a) that's true, b) do all 183's have this issue and c) is there a way to mitigate this?

a) It's true. It's not horrible (although looks scary), but it is definitively there.

b) Yes - all do, it is the feature of sensor in long exposure

c) Yes. Depending on type of camera you have, there are two approaches.

If you have set point cooled camera - simple dark subtraction where darks are at matching temp, exposure, gain and offset will fix the issue.

If you don't have set point cooled camera then you can utilize special calibration algorithm called dark scaling / dark optimization. It is rather involved technique and not guaranteed to work properly - depends on data and how usable bias is (there are some tricks to get bias signal even if bias is not stable/usable).

[Adam J]

8 hours ago, dazzystar said:

Hi All,

I live in B7 skies and looking for my first DSO camera. I've been told to stay clear of the ZWO ASI183MC camera as it suffers with terrible amp glow. Not sure if a) that's true, b) do all 183's have this issue and c) is there a way to mitigate this?

Welcome to advice on alternatives as well.

Cheers

Daz

For me there are only very few situations when I would choose that camera over a ASI533mc amp glow aside. What scope will you use it with? 

[TerryMcK]

I have 2 ASI183PROs both cooled colour and mono. Yes there is amp glow but no worse than any other camera and it can be completely removed with calibration frames. I’m not sure why anybody would have told you to avoid the camera. Only consider the Pro version as they are temperature controlled and are ideal for DSO work.

Edited January 4, 2022 by TerryMcK

[nephilim]

If your wanting to avoid amp glow, the ZWO ASI 533MC-Pro has zero amp glow. Compared to the 183 it also has lower read noise & is 14bit compared to the 183 @12bit.  The 533 is £120 more than the 183 but is described by FLO as 'the latest iteration of the 183'.

A few people are put off the 533 due to its square chip but tbh I think it frames targets very well & if it's your first dedicated camera you won't notice that anyway. I've included my latest image taken with the 533 last month of the North American & Pelican nebulae & for me the framing is spot on.

The 533 is my first cooled astro camera & I was also looking at the 183 (mainly due to the lower price) before deciding on the 533 after reading/ watching a lot of very favourable reviews. I'm glad I chose the 533, imo it's a fantastic camera for the price.

Please note that the gradient in the image is due to my poor processing skills (plus this is a PNG rather than the original xisf file from PixInsight so not the best quality) I havnt been doing this long so I've still a lot to learn.

Steve

 

Edited January 10, 2022 by nephilim

[nephilim]

Here is a dark frame from my 533. If you click on the centre of the page you'll see there is an actual image there but it also shows how much amp glow there is....or rather there isnt.

Edited January 10, 2022 by nephilim

[dazzystar]

thanks Guys!

[dazzystar]

As you may know, I'm looking for my first camera for DSO imaging on an EQ3 Pro and Startravel 102 scope and settled on a ZWO 183 as this gave be the best I could get on my limited budget. Below is an excerpt from an email I received today from someone from ABS who has an ASI183MC camera for sale. I think he was trying to be helpful but it makes me feel that I should sell my scope and mount until I can save enough for a 533MC Pro. Let me know what you guys think:-

The ASI183 has very small pixels at 2.4u , it's really a high
resolution camera for planetary work. Planets are small so you need
the resolution for detail and they are bright so there's no downside
to having small pixels. Small pixels give resolution but don't capture
much light, a typical sized 4.5u pixel will capture almost 4 times the
light so think of that as 1 hour of imaging vs 4 hours to give the
same result.

For the stage that you're at the ASI183 is not the right choice for you.

[Adam J]

4 hours ago, dazzystar said:

As you may know, I'm looking for my first camera for DSO imaging on an EQ3 Pro and Startravel 102 scope and settled on a ZWO 183 as this gave be the best I could get on my limited budget. Below is an excerpt from an email I received today from someone from ABS who has an ASI183MC camera for sale. I think he was trying to be helpful but it makes me feel that I should sell my scope and mount until I can save enough for a 533MC Pro. Let me know what you guys think:-

The ASI183 has very small pixels at 2.4u , it's really a high
resolution camera for planetary work. Planets are small so you need
the resolution for detail and they are bright so there's no downside
to having small pixels. Small pixels give resolution but don't capture
much light, a typical sized 4.5u pixel will capture almost 4 times the
light so think of that as 1 hour of imaging vs 4 hours to give the
same result.

For the stage that you're at the ASI183 is not the right choice for you.

I have not been understanding correctly and thought you where looking at the cooled versions (pro) and not the uncooled versions. I would actually agree about the ASI183mc especially if its not a cooled pro model. The ASI485 is much better suited for uncooled imaging as it has no amp glow and you need cooling to calibrate sensors with amp glow.

Astro photography on the EQ3 pro is a challange even without small pixels. The AZ GTI is a better budget bet.

This is the type of starter setup I would usually suggest on a low budget. He uses a ASI178mc and thats essentially a smaller ASI183mc would work with this kind of setup but the newer ASI485mc is a better bet as it has no amp glow and is more suited as above, but is smaller than the 183mc.

What i would do is keep the EQ3 Pro, buy a 50ED and get that 183mc, or if you can afford it the much better 485, as the real problem in your proposed setup is the ST102. If the EQ3 pro does not deliver you can then sell it and grab a AZ GTI instead.

 

 

Adam

Edited January 12, 2022 by Adam J

[dazzystar]

Thanks for the reply Adam. It was actually that video that Cuiv did that started this whole journey for me. I don't understand however how a 50ED could be better than a 102 though. Surely the fact that the 102 has twice the diameter objective lens means more light gathering power?

[nephilim]

38 minutes ago, dazzystar said:

Thanks for the reply Adam. It was actually that video that Cuiv did that started this whole journey for me. I don't understand however how a 50ED could be better than a 102 though. Surely the fact that the 102 has twice the diameter objective lens means more light gathering power?

The Startravel 102 is an achromat refractor & suffers from chromatic aberration (colour fringing) and is really only suited to visual use where as the Evoguide 50ED is a apochromat which are much better, be aware though that for Astrophotography you'll need to buy a field flattener otherwise your images will suffer distortions around the edges (these are needed for most refractors apart from too end models, if you buy a reflector however you'll need a comma corrector). Have a read of this as there's some very good advice regarding your first scope for AP. https://astrobackyard.com/beginner-astrophotography-telescope/

Edited January 12, 2022 by nephilim

[dazzystar]

Thanks for the reply. I was intending on buying a FF (field flattener) anyway whether I went for the 50ED or the scope I now have. I do understand your point regarding the quality of optics but nevertheless, surely the 102 will outperform the 50ED initially?

[nephilim]

56 minutes ago, dazzystar said:

Thanks for the reply. I was intending on buying a FF (field flattener) anyway whether I went for the 50ED or the scope I now have. I do understand your point regarding the quality of optics but nevertheless, surely the 102 will outperform the 50ED initially?

No, an APO will always outperform an achromat, the optics are far better, the quality of the image is a lot more important than the amount of light that the scope receives.

Edited January 12, 2022 by nephilim

[dazzystar]

Thanks again. The issue with the 50ED is the focuser. I intend to use an autofocuser (I'm actually in the process of building one based on the MyFocuserPro2 project by Robert Brown) and this is designed to either use a direct connection to the manual focusing shaft or from gears and a belt. I'm not sure if this can be used on the 50ED though. Can anyone recommend another small APO instead?

[Adam J]

35 minutes ago, dazzystar said:

Thanks again. The issue with the 50ED is the focuser. I intend to use an autofocuser (I'm actually in the process of building one based on the MyFocuserPro2 project by Robert Brown) and this is designed to either use a direct connection to the manual focusing shaft or from gears and a belt. I'm not sure if this can be used on the 50ED though. Can anyone recommend another small APO instead?

The ST102 will work it's just not really a good match to the capacity of your mount and the quality of the optics is low. 

I use an askar FMA180 and I get good results. 

I managed to fit an autofocuser to the helical. But to be honest I am not sure the 50ed focuser is as smooth in operation. 

[Elp]

WO Z61. Compact, excellent quality for a number of targets, lunar, planetary within reason even solar (with filters).

And with the 183 you can always bin to improve the image acquisition, it has the resolution for it.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Elp

[dazzystar]

Well above my pay grade I'm afraid and deffo something to add to my wish list. Going to stick with what I've got and go with a 183MC camera. I know it's not ideal but at least it'll whet my appetite.

[vlaiv]

9 minutes ago, dazzystar said:

Well above my pay grade I'm afraid and deffo something to add to my wish list. Going to stick with what I've got and go with a 183MC camera. I know it's not ideal but at least it'll whet my appetite.

May I ask what is your budget and what do you hope to achieve?