Which accessories to get for SkyMax 127

[CasualObserver]

I am planning on buying the SkyMax 127L AZ-GTi, but would also like to get a few things in addition. Mainly an extra eyepiece or two, and a few things to enable photography (though I understand that the GTi may not be ideal for photography-tracking of stars or planets). If it matters, I am probably going to buy from FLO. 

So my questions:

1. Is there a particular T-ring I should buy to use with this telescope? I have a Nikon camera (F-mount), but it seems that the focus knob on the telescope may interfere if the adapter is too thin?

2. If I want a greater magnification than the 10mm (150x), which eyepiece should I choose (I know nothing of which ones are of good/poor quality). Maybe a 2x barlow as well?

3. If I understand it correctly, I could also get a projection adapter to enable me to take photographs through an eyepiece, for greater magnification. Is that correct?

 

Also, and forgive me if this is a stupid question; could I take usable photographs of terrestial targets through eyepiece projection with great magnification? Say a stationary target like a building on a mountaintop about 1 km away)? I know that telescopes could be used for viewing terrestial targets, but I can't find much information about photographs taken of terrestial targets.

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

Hi ... nice scope and a very popular portable mount . You may have to shop around to find stock . 

The first accessory i would buy for a Mak is a Dew Shield . 

As for Eyepieces ...use the ones that come with the scope , first . The 25mm isn't bad at all . I'm sure others can advise you better on this , as i have only just started to "up my game " when it comes to EP's .

Stu

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Stu1smartcookie

[KP82]

You've got yourself a nice little setup, very portable. The skymax127 + az-gti is a very popular combo.

Below are my answers to your questions:

1. Here is the T-ring for Nikon from FLO https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astro-essentials/t-rings.html. Don't worry about those low profile adaptors, just stick to the standard one. You will also need a 1.25" nosepiece https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-1-25-inch-t-mount-camera-nosepiece-adapter.html

2. BST starguiders are often recommended as a cost effective first upgrade to stock eyepieces https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html. An 8mm + 15mm along with the stock 25mm will cover a broad range of useful mag. Alternatively you could pick up a 8 - 24mm or 7 - 21mm zoom.

3. For eyepiece projection type of photography, there are aftermarket adapters for both DSLRs and phones https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/universal-camera-adaptor-for-eyepiece-projection-astrophotography.html. You could also get Baader Morpheus or Hyperion eyepieces for this as they have the necessary threads built in.

 

I've never tried terrestrial photography with anything other than a refractor, but I suppose the principle is the same with a Mak. Keep in mind that Maks are quite slow by imaging standards (big f ratio), so they are only good for stationary targets.

Edited April 20, 2021 by KP82

[vlaiv]

1 hour ago, CasualObserver said:

3. If I understand it correctly, I could also get a projection adapter to enable me to take photographs through an eyepiece, for greater magnification. Is that correct?

Depending on what type of DSLR you'll be using - with that scope you are petty much at the edge at prime focus.

Say you use modern DSLR with around 4µm pixel size - with F/16 you are pretty much at critical sampling rate (with 3.75µm - it is F/15). That scope is F/12 so very close to critical sampling rate. In fact images close to critical sampling rate feel soft if you don't use special processing and sharpening (see lucky imaging and wavelet sharpening for example).

You can use eyepiece projection to get more magnification - but it will be "empty" magnification without further detail. You can get same effect if you simply enlarge your image in software - it will be zoomed in but blurry. This happens due to physics of light and there is no way around it - except to get large scope.

1 hour ago, CasualObserver said:

If I want a greater magnification than the 10mm (150x), which eyepiece should I choose (I know nothing of which ones are of good/poor quality). Maybe a 2x barlow as well?

This really depends on how sharp your eyesight is. If you have sharp eyesight - you might find that using higher magnification does no yield sharper image. People with very sharp eyesight can happily use x1 aperture in mm - so around x120 is enough for them (your scope is effectively around 120mm - although it says 127mm). If you don't have that sharp vision (about quarter of people have less than 20/20 vision even with eyeglasses) then you can use eyepieces down to 6mm to get x2 per mm of aperture - or about x250 power.

I think that x2 barlow is not needed for Maksutov type telescope as you can easily get decent short focal length eyepieces and eye relief is not issue with these scopes (secondary acts as barlow and makes eye relief longer).

[CasualObserver]

20 hours ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

Hi ... nice scope and a very popular portable mount . You may have to shop around to find stock . 

The first accessory i would buy for a Mak is a Dew Shield . 

The whole world is basically sold out, but I am ok with waiting a couple of months. The best time to view will be when we are getting closer to winter anyway. I have ordered a pair of binoculars (Opticron 10x50 adventurer T WP) to get me started. So I can start using those to get into startgazing until I can get a proper telescope. Dew shield was not something I did consider, is it a must have (will the telescope always dew up if I don't have one?)

 

19 hours ago, KP82 said:

1. Here is the T-ring for Nikon from FLO https://www.firstlightoptics.com/astro-essentials/t-rings.html. Don't worry about those low profile adaptors, just stick to the standard one. You will also need a 1.25" nosepiece https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-1-25-inch-t-mount-camera-nosepiece-adapter.html

2. BST starguiders are often recommended as a cost effective first upgrade to stock eyepieces https://www.firstlightoptics.com/bst-starguider-eyepieces.html. An 8mm + 15mm along with the stock 25mm will cover a broad range of useful mag. Alternatively you could pick up a 8 - 24mm or 7 - 21mm zoom.

Thank you, the range here seem to be good and from what I can find in other threads they seem to be a good choice.

 

19 hours ago, vlaiv said:

Depending on what type of DSLR you'll be using - with that scope you are petty much at the edge at prime focus.

Say you use modern DSLR with around 4µm pixel size - with F/16 you are pretty much at critical sampling rate (with 3.75µm - it is F/15). That scope is F/12 so very close to critical sampling rate. In fact images close to critical sampling rate feel soft if you don't use special processing and sharpening (see lucky imaging and wavelet sharpening for example).

You can use eyepiece projection to get more magnification - but it will be "empty" magnification without further detail. You can get same effect if you simply enlarge your image in software - it will be zoomed in but blurry. This happens due to physics of light and there is no way around it - except to get large scope.

This really depends on how sharp your eyesight is. If you have sharp eyesight - you might find that using higher magnification does no yield sharper image. People with very sharp eyesight can happily use x1 aperture in mm - so around x120 is enough for them (your scope is effectively around 120mm - although it says 127mm). If you don't have that sharp vision (about quarter of people have less than 20/20 vision even with eyeglasses) then you can use eyepieces down to 6mm to get x2 per mm of aperture - or about x250 power.

I think that x2 barlow is not needed for Maksutov type telescope as you can easily get decent short focal length eyepieces and eye relief is not issue with these scopes (secondary acts as barlow and makes eye relief longer).

Thanks for your detailed explaination regarding photography.  It makes sense, and the F-stop was not a part I had taken into consideration with the magnification.

 

Regarding eye-pieces: will a 5mm be "wasted" on a 127Mak? If I understand it correctly, a 5mm will give a 300x magnification on this scope, while the "recommended" max based on aperature x2 would be 254x. And as the telescope is delivered with a 10mm and 25mm eyepiece; will an 8mm BST eyepiece be a good addition? I suppose it depends on the difference in quality of the BST vs the provided eyepiece, and less on the the difference in magnification? If it matters, I have good eyes (no glasses), but others in my family are not so fortunante.

 

I understand that it may seem a bit eccessive to buy a lot of accessories together with the telescope, but my reason for this is partly the extremely long shipping times, and partly due to me ordering from abroad. Meaning that buying more at once will save me considerable shipping costs and import taxes.

[vlaiv]

7 minutes ago, CasualObserver said:

Regarding eye-pieces: will a 5mm be "wasted" on a 127Mak? If I understand it correctly, a 5mm will give a 300x magnification on this scope, while the "recommended" max based on aperature x2 would be 254x. And as the telescope is delivered with a 10mm and 25mm eyepiece; will an 8mm BST eyepiece be a good addition? I suppose it depends on the difference in quality of the BST vs the provided eyepiece, and less on the the difference in magnification? If it matters, I have good eyes (no glasses), but others in my family are not so fortunante.

Again - that really depends on a person using it.  I can tell you my experience, but it is questionable if it will apply in your case and how much.

I have Skymax 102mm and I purchased 6.7mm ES 82 eyepiece to use it as high power eyepiece in that scope.  I also have 5.5mm ES 62mm which was primarily purchased for F/10 102mm achromat as high power eyepiece (but also used in my 8" F/6 dob).

5.5mm is simply too much for me - view is distinctly soft. This is not down to the scope - Mak is, I believe, sharper than my F/10 achromat. I'll do side by side comparison at some point, but that is the impression I have so far with limited time with both scopes.

6.7mm is again excellent eyepiece - and I feel is too soft really. I wish I went for 8.8mm ES 82 instead - and I'll probably add that one as well at some point. 11mm ES82 is exceptional EP - very sharp and I'm really happy with Mak102 and that one. I do feel that there is a bit more magnification to be squeezed out of the scope.

I observe with only one eye that is fairly sharp - probably 20/20 or a bit sharper than that. Other has severe astigmatism that can't be corrected even with glasses. That one is all blurry. I don't wear eyeglasses (in daytime nor when observing - but started to wear them when reading recently - I was farsighted as a kid and presbyopia is starting to kick in).

If it was me - I'd choose around 8mm to be my high power eyepiece.

In fact - there is interesting eyepiece that I would like to pair with my Mak102. There aren't any reviews of it so I don't know exactly how good that eyepiece is - but on "paper" - it fits with F/12 - F/13 scope nicely:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/ovl-eyepieces/hyperflex-9-27mm-zoom.html

That one + 32mm plossl eyepiece for widest views possible in such scope. You'll already have very decent 25mm in case narrow FOV at high focal length bothers you.

For BSTs - I only heard good things and I think it is very good eyepiece. I would choose 8mm over 5mm as highest power EP.

 

[Stu1smartcookie]

21 minutes ago, CasualObserver said:

Dew shield was not something I did consider, is it a must have (will the telescope always dew up if I don't have one?)

I'm afraid a dew shield IS a must ... i really dont know why manufacturers don't find  a way of incorporating one into the design . They are not that expensive and you can make your own . but , really , its like buying a tv without a plug !! Us older members will remember that lol 

[vlaiv]

14 minutes ago, Stu1smartcookie said:

I'm afraid a dew shield IS a must ... i really dont know why manufacturers don't find  a way of incorporating one into the design . They are not that expensive and you can make your own . but , really , its like buying a tv without a plug !! Us older members will remember that lol 

Indeed - it will act both as a dew shield but also as a light baffle.

Due to design - faster Maks have a bit of light leak into baffle tube and that can cause subtle contrast issues on Lunar for example. Nearby light sources with light falling on corrector plate also cause light scatter.

This image taken by member of cloudynights is rather telling:

[Girders]

Although it's a well loved and rated scope,  I know I'm not alone in finding the focuser tricky for fine adjustments.  I've read of DIY solutions involving clothes pegs, but I very quickly decided I needed to add a helical focuser.

Made a real difference to my enjoyment of it.

[johninderby]

This 1.25” crayford will fit but the focuser to SCT adaptor is a bit expensive.

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p11734_TS-Optics-1-25----T2-Crayford-Focuser-for-Refractors--Cassegrains-----.html

Fitted to an Omegon 127 mak.

[CasualObserver]

Thanks for all the advice, I have finally decided to get the telescope package with a dew shield, a zwo helical focuser, a couple of the BST eyepieces + barlow, and some minor accessories (red light, t-ring for camera etc). I asked FLO about carry options, but they didn't have any recommendations available, so I will just wait until I get it all and see what I need to fit it all in a carry-friendly manner to bring outside.

Last question; does anyone know if FLO typically offers any discount when you order several items like this? I have no idea about how often (if ever) they give out discounts, but I thought it could be worth checking before I make the order, as the total for all the items does add up. I know I could just ask them, but I fear that it would be considered rude to ask about/"demand" a discount? Then again, if they commonly do this, then it would be stupid to lose out on one. 

[johninderby]

Unfortunately the days of discounts are long gone what with profit margins being so tight for astro retailers nowadays. 

[vlaiv]

1 hour ago, CasualObserver said:

Last question; does anyone know if FLO typically offers any discount when you order several items like this? I have no idea about how often (if ever) they give out discounts, but I thought it could be worth checking before I make the order, as the total for all the items does add up. I know I could just ask them, but I fear that it would be considered rude to ask about/"demand" a discount? Then again, if they commonly do this, then it would be stupid to lose out on one. 

As far as I know, if you order couple of BST eyepieces - you'll get discount on those.

It will be automatically calculated in your total prior to checkout.

[scotty38]

Don’t try and beat them down on price as they’re competitive anyway and the service is second to none. That in itself is worth something these days and you’ll be glad they can afford to behave like this if you get any issues 👍

[Louis D]

I would get a 50mm RACI finder and a 2 or 3 to 1 finder bracket so you can continue to use the RDF as well.  At 1500mm and using 1.25" eyepieces, I find the FOV is insanely narrow.  In my experience, the finder often gives a more pleasing view of the context of small objects seen in the main tube.  If you mount the RACI finder in the lowest position foot (left-most for this mount), it balances better on the mount as well by putting it more in line with the altitude axis.  Keep the RDF in the farthest right (top-most) foot to keep it from interfering with your use of the RACI.

In the future, you may want to upgrade to 2" accessories with a Mak to SCT thread adapter for the rear port, a 2" visual back, a 2" diagonal, and, of course, 2" eyepieces.  Sure there is vignetting to the tune of about 40% light falloff at the edges, but the wider views with the same scope are so worth it.  The below images taken through my 127 Mak give an idea of just how much the view widens going from a widest field 1.25" eyepiece to a widest field 2" eyepiece as well as the level of vignetting:

[AstroNebulee]

On 20/04/2021 at 15:38, CasualObserver said:

1. Is there a particular T-ring I should buy to use with this telescope? I have a Nikon camera (F-mount), but it seems that the focus knob on the telescope may interfere if the adapter is too thin

You can screw the t adapter for your Canon straight onto the back of the scope and then attach your dslr as this is what I do. A batinov mask would be handy for focusing. I just use an old lif with hole in it pushed onto the original focuser and works perfectly. 

[CasualObserver]

1 hour ago, scotty38 said:

Don’t try and beat them down on price as they’re competitive anyway and the service is second to none. That in itself is worth something these days and you’ll be glad they can afford to behave like this if you get any issues 👍

Yes, that was my reason for asking here. I don't want to be "one of those" customers if this was the case. 

Regarding replacing the finder, I have decided not to for the time being. I hope the fact that it is a gti will help with the actual finding, and I am a bit over my budget already. So while there are stuff I could easily see myself add (solar filter, 32mm etc), I will leave those upgrades for later. 

[scotty38]

Don’t ever kid yourself you’ve finished spending would be a good piece of advice too 🤣

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, AstroNebulee said:

You can screw the t adapter for your Canon straight onto the back of the scope and then attach your dslr as this is what I do. A batinov mask would be handy for focusing. I just use an old lif with hole in it pushed onto the original focuser and works perfectly. 

How is that possible?  The Synta Maks use an M44.5 x 1.0 thread while T-2 adapters use an M42 x 0.75 thread.  I was unable to locate such an adapter.  To my knowledge, you'd need to get the Mak to SCT thread adapter and then add an SCT to T2 thread reducer adapter to that.

Even at that, the DSLR may be a bit large that close to the back.  It may tend to hit the focus knob.

[johninderby]

Most Skymax maks now have an SCT thread on the back so you will have to check to see if it is the SCT thread.

Edited May 3, 2021 by johninderby

[AstroNebulee]

55 minutes ago, Louis D said:

How is that possible?  The Synta Maks use an M44.5 x 1.0 thread while T-2 adapters use an M42 x 0.75 thread.  I was unable to locate such an adapter.  To my knowledge, you'd need to get the Mak to SCT thread adapter and then add an SCT to T2 thread reducer adapter to that.

Even at that, the DSLR may be a bit large that close to the back.  It may tend to hit the focus knob.

This is my dslr connected to the back of my skymax 127 as John says which I forgot to add has a sct thread on it. 

 

 

[Louis D]

10 minutes ago, AstroNebulee said:

This is my dslr connected to the back of my skymax 127 as John says which I forgot to add has a sct thread on it. 

 

 

Okay, I see what you've done.  I checked my old 1.25" visual back, and it is indeed T-2 male threaded.  I'd never noticed them.  However, that's not same as attaching "straight onto the back of the scope" which would mean without the visual back.  More exactly, you meant "straight onto the visual back of the scope".  That's what threw me.

All this presumes you get the Skymax version with the 1.25" visual back.  My daughter's 127 Mak came with the 2" visual back and obviously has no T-2 male threads.

[AstroNebulee]

3 minutes ago, Louis D said:

Okay, I see what you've done.  I checked my old 1.25" visual back, and it is indeed T-2 male threaded.  I'd never noticed them.  However, that's not same as attaching "straight onto the back of the scope" which would mean without the visual back.  More exactly, you meant "straight onto the visual back of the scope".  That's what threw me.

All this presumes you get the Skymax version with the 1.25" visual back.  My daughter's 127 Mak came with the 2" visual back and obviously has no T-2 male threads.

OK maybe I should of phrased it better I guess. My apologies 

[Louis D]

6 minutes ago, AstroNebulee said:

OK maybe I should of phrased it better I guess. My apologies 

No problem, I'm just a bit dense.  We got it straightened out.  The OP can indeed screw it straight on the visual back without any other adapters, saving him some money in his tight budget.  Good catch!