Are any of these telescopes good for Astrophography?

[AlanP_]

I have been trying and trying to find an Astrophotography telescope that is in stock, but its becoming a very difficult task. Most of the suppliers are out of stock and nothing is coming in for quite some while by the looks of it. I initially wanted a 130PDS but I can't find one anywhere, even used. (Speaking of which, if anyone has a used telescope suitable for Astrophotography, send me a message!). I'm not sure if anyone else has much luck with other suppliers.  I'll be using a HEQ5 Pro mount with a DSLR camera and down the line I want to implement guiding. So, i'm not sure what the weight of the telescope should be or if these telescopes are too heavy. Perhaps some of the more knowledgable users can chime in on this. Anyways, here are the telescopes I have found and are in my budget.

TS Photon 6" F5 - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p12285_TS-PHOTON-6--F5-Advanced-Newtonian-Telescope-with-metal-tube.html

Bresser Refractor Messier AR-102L/1350 - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9739_Bresser-Refractor-Messier-AR-102L-1350---Optical-Tube-Assembly.html

Skywatcher 80/400mm - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4485_Skywatcher-Startravel-80-OTA---80-400mm-Refraktor-opt--tube.html

Not sure how good/bad these are or if they are even suitable at all for my use, but its all I could find. 

 

[Waldemar]

I would say the Photon f5 Newtonian is your best bet. It focuses with DSLR camera's and your HEQ5 should be able to handle it easily .
The other two are both achromats, wich means chromatic aberration: red and blue fringes around stars. 

 

[nephilim]

8 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

I have been trying and trying to find an Astrophotography telescope that is in stock, but its becoming a very difficult task. Most of the suppliers are out of stock and nothing is coming in for quite some while by the looks of it. I initially wanted a 130PDS but I can't find one anywhere, even used. (Speaking of which, if anyone has a used telescope suitable for Astrophotography, send me a message!). I'm not sure if anyone else has much luck with other suppliers.  I'll be using a HEQ5 Pro mount with a DSLR camera and down the line I want to implement guiding. So, i'm not sure what the weight of the telescope should be or if these telescopes are too heavy. Perhaps some of the more knowledgable users can chime in on this. Anyways, here are the telescopes I have found and are in my budget.

TS Photon 6" F5 - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p12285_TS-PHOTON-6--F5-Advanced-Newtonian-Telescope-with-metal-tube.html

Bresser Refractor Messier AR-102L/1350 - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9739_Bresser-Refractor-Messier-AR-102L-1350---Optical-Tube-Assembly.html

Skywatcher 80/400mm - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4485_Skywatcher-Startravel-80-OTA---80-400mm-Refraktor-opt--tube.html

Not sure how good/bad these are or if they are even suitable at all for my use, but its all I could find. 

 

I'd say out of the 3 that the newtonian reflector would be the best. If you were looking for a refractor you'd ideally want an apochromatic rather than a achromatic, have a look at this https://starizona.com/tutorial/imaging-with-a-refractor/#:~:text=Above%3A An achromatic lens usually,focus point%2C causing chromatic aberration.&text=Apochromatic refractor lenses are designed,two) reach the same focus.     I'd personally go for a small apo, they are lightweight, with good colour correction, William Optics do a good range such as this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/william-optics/william-optics-zenithstar-73-ii-apo-2019.html  or Skywatchers 80ED. For a reflector on an HEQ5 I'd be looking at one of Skywatchers PDS ones such as the 130. Also keep in mind that a refractor needs a field flattener & a Newt needs a coma corrector

[nephilim]

3 minutes ago, Waldemar said:

I would say the Photon f5 Newtonian is your best bet. It focuses with DSLR camera's and your HEQ5 should be able to handle it easily .
The other two are both achromats, wich means chromatic aberration: red and blue fringes around stars. 

 

Great minds think alike 😀

[vlaiv]

16 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

TS Photon 6" F5 - https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p12285_TS-PHOTON-6--F5-Advanced-Newtonian-Telescope-with-metal-tube.html

That one is very good AP telescope - in fact made for AP and similar to 150PDS by SkyWatcher (maybe even better made).

[AlanP_]

1 hour ago, Waldemar said:

I would say the Photon f5 Newtonian is your best bet. It focuses with DSLR camera's and your HEQ5 should be able to handle it easily .
The other two are both achromats, wich means chromatic aberration: red and blue fringes around stars. 

 

Ok great! So even if I added autoguiding in the futurre, along with my Photon F5 and DSLR camera, my HEQ5 would hold up?

[nephilim]

4 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Ok great! So even if I added autoguiding in the futurre, along with my Photon F5 and DSLR camera, my HEQ5 would hold up?

Yes. Usually if you look at the maximum weight carrying capability of the mount (I think yours is 18kg) then half that for imaging so that would mean 9kg for everything, scope, camera, guide setup etc.

The 18kg maximum refers to just observing.

Edited December 30, 2020 by nephilim

[AlanP_]

Also, would it be worthwhile for me to pay the bit extra to get the F4 as opposed to the F5 verion?

[AlanP_]

Just now, nephilim said:

Yes. Usually if you look at the maximumnweight carrying capability of the mount (I think yours is 18kg) then half that for imaging so that would mean 9kg for everything, scope, camera, guide setup etc.

Ah perfect, should have plenty of room so, thanks!

[nephilim]

5 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Also, would it be worthwhile for me to pay the bit extra to get the F4 as opposed to the F5 verion?

F4 will gather more light quicker than f5 so I'd say yes although if you want to also observe with the scope then an f4 is less forgiving with cheaper eyepieces than f5

Edited December 30, 2020 by nephilim

[malc-c]

3 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Ok great! So even if I added autoguiding in the futurre, along with my Photon F5 and DSLR camera, my HEQ5 would hold up?

Yes it should be fine, especially if you use something like the 9 x 50 finder guide scope listed on the same page - 

Regarding the new post... I personally know of one person who had lots of issues with their F4 quatro.  Naturally a shorter focal lengths means the main mirror has more curvature.... IMO the F5 will be fine 

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

Also, would it be worthwhile for me to pay the bit extra to get the F4 as opposed to the F5 verion?

Yes but not now.

F/4 scope is excellent instrument but one really needs to have quite a bit of experience imaging with newtonian scopes in order not go crazy / start pulling their hair out.

Faster the scope - more issues are likely. Things like tilt, collimation, focusing precision, illuminated and corrected field ...

All are ready to cause grief to even experienced imager.

Stick to F/5 for now and maybe in some distant future - switch to F/4

[AlanP_]

You guys are on the ball! Appreciate the speedy and informative responses. I think i'll just stick with the F5 for now if I decide to go for that telescope. I would've preferred to get a 130PDS, but its in the void and nowhere to be found. 

So I need a coma corrector if I go with the Photon 6 F5, is there anything else I need to pick up?

 

[nephilim]

4 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Yes but not now.

F/4 scope is excellent instrument but one really needs to have quite a bit of experience imaging with newtonian scopes in order not go crazy / start pulling their hair out.

Faster the scope - more issues are likely. Things like tilt, collimation, focusing precision, illuminated and corrected field ...

All are ready to cause grief to even experienced imager.

Stick to F/5 for now and maybe in some distant future - switch to F/4

Very good point @vlaiv

[vlaiv]

2 minutes ago, AlanP_ said:

So I need a coma corrector if I go with the Photon 6 F5, is there anything else I need to pick up?

Depends on what coma corrector you get. Not all require same distance. You'll need T2 ring for your camera model (it is T2 to particular lens mount so T2 - EOS or T2 for Nikon or similar).

Then check out coma corrector working distance. Easiest ones are the ones designed to work at 55mm - you don't need any extension tubes for those as T2 ring is usually designed to match flange focal distance of camera up to 55mm (for canon it is 11mm + 44mm of flange distance = 55mm total).

Think about guiding and also consider flat panel that is suitable to your scope so you can easily do flat exposures. If you don't mind DIY - flat panels are quite cheap to make - you need LED strip, some electronics, diffusing panel made out of acrylic plastic or something similar and housing.

Alternative is something like this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p3512_Geoptik-30B304---Flatfield-adapter--D-210-mm--for-flat-field-imaging.html

or this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p8240_Lacerta-LED-Flatfield-Box-with-185-mm-usable-Diameter.html

(both are rather expensive). There are also other alternatives - like screens for tracing paper or similar - do search on flat panels / boxes to see ideas.

[malc-c]

One thing to think of is that as from Friday we are no longer in the EU, so purchasing from Germany may work out expensive as you would need to purchase EX VAT from germany, then pay UK VAT and Duty when it arrives in the UK (normally done through the courier such as DHL). Looking at the GOV website, that's an additional 4.2% duty and 20% VAT on the Ex VAT price (Germany's VAT is 16%). 

The commodity codes needed are listed here https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/9005800000

Edited December 30, 2020 by malc-c

[Waldemar]

12 minutes ago, malc-c said:

One thing to think of is that as from Friday we are no longer in the EU, so purchasing from Germany may work out expensive as you would need to purchase EX VAT from germany, then pay UK VAT and Duty when it arrives in the UK (normally done through the courier such as DHL). Looking at the GOV website, that's an additional 4.2% duty and 20% VAT on the Ex VAT price (Germany's VAT is 16%). 

The commodity codes needed are listed here https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/9005800000

Not entirely correct... Germany's VAT tariff is 19%, so you pay about 5% extra if you wait too long

[johninderby]

Found this.

”online shoppers who buy items from the EU that are valued at more than £390 will have to pay customs duties, the government has revealed.”

Edited December 30, 2020 by johninderby

[malc-c]

16 minutes ago, Waldemar said:

Not entirely correct... Germany's VAT tariff is 19%, so you pay about 5% extra if you wait too long

If that's the case then they have the wrong VAT shown on their listing  Clearly shows 16% ????

[malc-c]

10 minutes ago, johninderby said:

Found this.

”online shoppers who buy items from the EU that are valued at more than £390 will have to pay customs duties, the government has revealed.”

That's interesting... Under normal imports, such as PCB's from China, the cut off for Duty was £18.  Anything above was chargeable.  As we are effectively in the same boat when purchasing from the EU from Friday, I would have thought the same conditions would have applied, unless this £390 limit (obscure, they could have rounded it to £400, or £375) is part of whatever deal Boris has negotiated 

[johninderby]

6 minutes ago, malc-c said:

If that's the case then they have the wrong VAT shown on their listing  Clearly shows 16% ????

Temp VAT reduction.

https://www.avalara.com/vatlive/en/vat-news/germany-cuts-vat-from-19--to-16--until-dec-2020.html

Edited December 30, 2020 by johninderby

[johninderby]

2 minutes ago, malc-c said:

That's interesting... Under normal imports, such as PCB's from China, the cut off for Duty was £18.  Anything above was chargeable.  As we are effectively in the same boat when purchasing from the EU from Friday, I would have thought the same conditions would have applied, unless this £390 limit (obscure, they could have rounded it to £400, or £375) is part of whatever deal Boris has negotiated 

Think it will take a while until we understand the trade deal with the EU. 🤔

[AlanP_]

Im in Ireland, so buying from Germany wont effect me.

[happy-kat]

I see you mentioned DSLR camera, is this one you already own and do you have any lenses with it?

[AlanP_]

7 minutes ago, happy-kat said:

I see you mentioned DSLR camera, is this one you already own and do you have any lenses with it?

Its on its way to me currently. I picked up the 600d on ebay this morning and im going to modify it. I dont have any lenses currently.