Pelican Nebula in SHO

[Xiga]

I finally got around to adding in some Sii to the Bi-Colour version i had previously processed last week. As it turned out, this was actually First Light for the 2" Baader Sii filter i bought last year. 

Now that i am using a mono camera, i am suddenly noticing halos around bright stars with the Oiii filter, and also the Sii filter. I used a Qhy9 for this image, whereas previously i was just using a DSLR (Nikon D5300), but halos were never a problem. When i used the D5300, i mounted the filters at the front of the FF, so they were always a good distance from the sensor. Now with the mono camera, they are as close as can be, so i am wondering if it is the distance that is the main culprit rather than the filters, or could it simply be a DSLR vs Mono camera issue? I hope to do a few Summer night tests comparing results with the Oiii filter in both positions with the mono camera to get to the bottom of it. 

Having previously done quite a lot of Bi-Colour imaging (albeit with a DSLR), i was interested on how much of an impact adding some Sii would make. Once i realised i needed to dial back the Oiii stretch i had used in the Bi-Colour image, and use a more evenly-balanced stretch for all 3 channels, i then started to see the impact more clearly. I consciously decided to leave some green and magenta in the image, to add depth and give the eye more to explore. Not everyone's cup of tea i know! 😄 

All in, this is 100 mins in all 3 channels, so 5 hrs in total using 20 mins subs with a SW80ED on a HEQ5-Pro. Stacked in APP and processed in PS. Starnet++ was used for star removal early on in the process. Then much later on, Images Plus was used for a bit of star reduction. 

I've been processing this for the last 2 nights, and have spent far too long looking at it. So if you feel i have lost the plot somewhere along the way please do tell me, as i may have gone blind to it! 

CS and stay safe folks. 

 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Xiga

[Xiga]

For reference, here was the Ha-Oii Bi-Colour version i had done the week before:

[tooth_dr]

Hi Ciarán. How are you mounting the filters now then? 
The Sii has added a depth to the image that was lacking in the bi colour version 👍🏼

[Xiga]

45 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

Hi Ciarán. How are you mounting the filters now then? 
The Sii has added a depth to the image that was lacking in the bi colour version 👍🏼

Thanks Adam. I totally agree on it adding depth. Although some of it is also probably just down to me taking a more considered, and less bright, approach to processing this time.

I have a simple TS-Optics filter drawer attached directly to the camera, which is quick to use and much lighter than a filter wheel. For NB work though i will probably only be doing 1 filter per night (perhaps, on occasion, two in the long winter nights) so filter changing won't be much of an issue, so if mounting them at the front of the FF shows an improvement then i will probably just stick with that going forward and replace the filter drawer with a simple spacer. Another thought i've had, is to try putting the IDAS-D1 at the front of the FF and keep the NB filters in the filter drawer. I suspect that the IDAS has superior coatings to the Baaders, which might cut down on the Halos. If so, then i could retain the ability to swap out the NB filters easily. Although in my case the D1 filter line cuts off before the Sii line, so this would only work with Oiii. If it did work though, i'd probably sell the D1 and get a P2 instead. I don't think losing a few percent of lightpass from stacking filters would make that much of a difference either. 

ps - The Atik383l+ arrived this week (woop-woop!). Been too busy with work to even plug it in yet, lol, hoping to to that this weekend. So i need to get you your Qhy9 back soon. Thanks again for the lend, i may never have made the jump without it! 🙏

Edited June 6, 2020 by Xiga

[MarsG76]

Great colors and detail... love it.

[Kinch]

2 hours ago, MarsG76 said:

Great colors and detail... love it.

That goes for me too 👍

[MarkAR]

Excellent images.

[MartinB]

Deep dusky dark and magnificent!

[Xiga]

15 hours ago, MarsG76 said:

Great colors and detail... love it.

Thanks Mars. 

12 hours ago, Kinch said:

That goes for me too 👍

Thanks Brendan

8 hours ago, MarkAR said:

Excellent images.

Cheers Mark

5 hours ago, MartinB said:

Deep dusky dark and magnificent!

Thanks Martin. It was very tempting to up the brightness. I had to restrain myself from doing so right at the end. Hopefully I made the right call. 

[Xiga]

I had a bit of feedback that the Pelican's beak was over-sharpened, and (if i'm being honest) this only confirmed what i think i already knew deep-down. 

Luckily i always make a point of saving my images with lots of layers in PS, so i was able to revert back to before i went a bit overboard on the sharpness & contrast. 

So for this version i kept the same colour but went the complete opposite way in terms of the Luminosity and applied hardly any sharpening and contrast adjustments. I've come to realise i may be something of a contrast junky 🤪 (mid-year's resolution to rectify that) so part of me still feels like this is lacking a bit of punch, but then again, there are elements i prefer. I think the stars inside the nebulosity look better for instance.

Interested to hear what the good SGL folk think. Better? Worse?

[Kinch]

We are all different and no two NB images will get the same response.....so it is hard to win the day with one's own preference....unless one is lucky enough to have everything come together just perfect. Contrast can be good and indeed necessary but like everything else in life....I think doing things in moderation will last the distance. I liked the first rendition and I like this latest....both outstanding images 👍.

[MartinB]

There is no correct amount of sharpening, contrast or colour saturation.  The things I think are "wrong" in an image are artefacts such has halos, the smeared effect from excessive smoothing and so on.  Otherwise it is down to aesthetics.  Over the years I have seen trends in imaging - more contrast/less contrast, sharper/softer, darker/brighter.  What is "right" is very personal.  The problem when processing images is that it is easy to keep chasing details and loose track of the overall image appearance.  When I get to this stage I ask my wife which she prefers.  She has a much better aesthetic eye than me so I always go with what she says!  She likes both your images and says they are both good!

I make greetings cards with some of my images, mainly night time landscapes but also some deep sky.  This gives me lots of feedback from non imagers, retailer opinion and which cards sell and which don't.  The most popular cards are ones that on here would be regarded by many as over processed - high contrast and saturation.  People have got used to their display screens having built in "vibrance"!  

 

[Xiga]

On 13/06/2020 at 00:23, Kinch said:

We are all different and no two NB images will get the same response.....so it is hard to win the day with one's own preference....unless one is lucky enough to have everything come together just perfect. Contrast can be good and indeed necessary but like everything else in life....I think doing things in moderation will last the distance. I liked the first rendition and I like this latest....both outstanding images 👍.

Wise words indeed Brendan. Moderation is indeed key. I've only just looked at these again for the first time since the weekend, and i'm now comfortable with the new version's lower sharpening & contrast. Thanks for the feedback and sage advice 

[Xiga]

On 13/06/2020 at 09:22, MartinB said:

There is no correct amount of sharpening, contrast or colour saturation.  The things I think are "wrong" in an image are artefacts such has halos, the smeared effect from excessive smoothing and so on.  Otherwise it is down to aesthetics.  Over the years I have seen trends in imaging - more contrast/less contrast, sharper/softer, darker/brighter.  What is "right" is very personal.  The problem when processing images is that it is easy to keep chasing details and loose track of the overall image appearance.  When I get to this stage I ask my wife which she prefers.  She has a much better aesthetic eye than me so I always go with what she says!  She likes both your images and says they are both good!

I make greetings cards with some of my images, mainly night time landscapes but also some deep sky.  This gives me lots of feedback from non imagers, retailer opinion and which cards sell and which don't.  The most popular cards are ones that on here would be regarded by many as over processed - high contrast and saturation.  People have got used to their display screens having built in "vibrance"!  

 

Yep i totally agree Martin. The reason i wasn't sure which one i preferred was purely down to aesthetics, which of course is subjective. I think i just needed to step away for a few days in order to see things more clearly. Luckily, work and family life makes that all too easy, lol. 

Your point about people liking overly saturated images is absolutely true. Looking back over my AB images, the ones that were the most popular were the ones that i now definitely think were over-processed! 

[x6gas]

Both renditions are absolutely excellent...  The first version doesn't look over-sharpened to me in all honesty but I think I do have a slight preference for the second...

[tooth_dr]

14 hours ago, Xiga said:

Your point about people liking overly saturated images is absolutely true. Looking back over my AB images, the ones that were the most popular

This is very true. I find the same, the general public eg facebook prefer an image that’s bright and colourful.  I’ve seen a few get 300+ likes and the actual image is not particularly well processed. Subject matter matters too!

[Xiga]

Hi guys

I decided to make one final adjustment to this, before finally putting it to bed. 

The dark dust lanes, although not clipped anywhere, were indeed still very dark in places. There was some faint dust hiding in the shadows, so i decided to bring them up in this final version.

I think it looks a bit more natural now, so i'm finally calling this one done! 🤪 

[tooth_dr]

Excellent Ciarán. An improvement for sure 👍🏼

[MarkAR]

Looks great, glad you're finally done...............................for now.