Chinese Gaint Binoviewers? Baader Mrk V Updated?

[Pingster]

Hi everyone.

Ive been off astronomy for 2 years due to moving home.

2 years ago i sent off my beloved Mrk V baader binos so Denis for a supercharge.

I told him how i love them but i noticed with H-alpha the views in each barrel differ. He said its cos the Mrk V suffer from polarization (hes indeed correct).

He offered that i could part exchange my mrk v for one of his supercharged "black" binos and they had next to zero polaraization (again he is correct).

For the sun + quark they work great.

However i am dismayed with their night time performance. Fistly they have a yellow tint to the view, where as the mrk v were very neutral. Secondly they suffer from what i can only describe a drawing "a secondary faux star, below and to the right of the target star being viewed". This only happens with brightest stars like Vega.

Thirdly tho he said they were slightly less bright than the mrk v, i did not occure to me what a huge disavantage it would mean, as at the time i was doing mainly solar and day time "scoping". The difference in brightness is even obvious dayyime use, the WO even with polarization have this pop to the view which Denises binos lack.

And lastly most devastating... is that optically they are nowhere as clear and not pin sharp like the mrk v. 

Before the swap i would compare my mrk V verse my excellent Williams optics bino. The WO are superb, but the difference in sharpnesd and clarity especially at higher mags was obvious and immediate. The mrk v simply toasts the WO by what visually looks like 25percent. However comparing Denises Black bino to the WO i struggle to work out which is better, and quite often i think the WO is sharper.

Denis is not a crook or dishonest imho. Hes a very passionate uy. But imho hes completely wrong about the optical quality of his black binos FOR ASTRO use.

So i would like to ask, ive been away astronomy for 2 years. Is there a chinese full aperture bino avaliable? Has the baader mrk v had a "tweak" to fix the polarization?

Im considering buying a new mrk v as i miss it dearly.

I know what you are thinking... only an idiot would part with a mrk v, im an idiot.

[Peter Drew]

It might be worth contacting Harry Siebert to see what he can offer, I understand that he has 2" fit designs available.

[jetstream]

I see no reason to supercharge binos, just me.

The Denk Binotron 27's are very good ( I have them) as are the MkV's as you know. One thing about the Binotrons- many say they are not a true 27mm clear aperture but in the middle powerswitch position it is...

 

[Ricochet]

Out of interest do you know what these "black" binoviewers started life as? (I presume they are generic models that have been supercharged?) I've seen comments from Dennis that all the Chinese binoviewers come from the same factory, so it wouldn't be that much of a surprise for the two models you have to have similar performance if they use similar components made from the same glasses. If you are using a barlow/ocs to reach focus it might be worth swapping it out. The ocs units supplied with my cheap Chinese binoviewers were terrible and switching to a barlow nose piece I already had greatly improved things. 

[Highburymark]

Pingster, I've just bought a MkV to replace my WO binoviewer - mainly for HA and white light solar. I agree that the WO are excellent, and particularly bright. Absolutely no complaints about them. But I noticed an immediate improvement in sharpness and detail with the MkV - they are superb - and so they should be for the rrp. To answer your question, the Baader do display some polarisation, unlike the WO. But for me it does not diminish the views in any way. As far as I know, no Chinese bino has been launched in the past two years which offer a wider fov, but a new Maxbright is supposedly imminent which will be a step up from the current pair. 

[Highburymark]

Slightly obvious question, but are your black binovs collimatable?

 

[Pingster]

Jetstream, supercharging does have benefits, the main one is to have wide FOV eyepieces ie 24mm Panoptics that dont vignette. This aspect Denises work achieved their goal. Even the WO, benfited greatly with a much more pleasing clean "viewport".

Richochet, I have two of Denises Black binos. They are basically white Zeiss Binos Painted black. One is very old as looking down the prisms i can see brown rust.

The Willems Optics Bino comes with an amazing x2 dinky barlow. Ive compared it with my x2 TV Powermate... and tho the PM is only slightly better, thw WO makes it look like an over engineered product. I believe i own very high end accessories so its not them to blame, as i am able to reach focus without having to use any barlows if i desire. This is achieved by using a Baader T2 Prism Diagonal which as a super short light path.

Highburymark, im please you agree with the Mrk V been very obliviously better than the WO. Thats why i am unhappy with my Black Binos from Denis for Astro us. They are not obviously sharper than the WO. To be clear, they are excellent for H-Alpha with a Quark as they dont suffer from polarisation.

My WO suffers from polarisation, more so than my Mrk V if memory serves me correctly.

I too am eagerly waiting for the new maxbrights. Tho knowing the Mrk V has superior sharpness.... once you go Mrk V you cant go back...

The black binos are collimatable, ill have to ask denis for instructions for them as they are not out of collomination by quite a bit. Werid considering ive never knocked them, the Mrk V and WO have never lost collomination by themselves like this.

Just to clarify, I made the bad decision of swapping my Mrk V with Denises Black Binos based on his advice. Personally i dont think he uses his binos for Astro, because if he did he would never choose them over a Mrk V. Also because he would have noticed the false star issue which makes them completely unsuitable for Astro use. I have two of his Black Binos so its not a one off issue. 

Ideally he should have just supercharged my Mrk V as i originally wanted. And offered me a Black bino (for daytime use and H-Alpha) as a separate sale. 

I wish to emphasise even tho his judgement is wrong about his binos being superior to Mrk V, hes very passionate about what he does and i truly believe he advises his customers with best interest.

The downsides about supercharging.

Even tho Denis insists there are no downsides there are.

1. Reflections of bright targets when not inside the eyepiece viewport. This is really obvious if the lenses, OVC's, correctors, barlows are not perfectly clean.

2. And most damning. Where Denis machines the casing to superchage... the hole is cut so big, the prisms no longer cover the "hole". So dust and air can enter the bino! The biggest and most disturbing problem is the inside prisms misting up during the night! None of my binos before suffered from this issue. I fear over time the inside of the binos will become dirty and require serving. The misting issue has ruined several night observing sessions. They have never misted during daytime use. Over time i can see the prisms deep inside the bino becoming water stained from misting.

3. Denis uses a really think black grease. This stuff is near impossible to get off. Its inside the eyepiece holders and took me a lot of work to clean up as initially every time i swapped out eyepieces the barrel would be ever so slightly covered with black grease. So far its not transferred to the prisms. 

Do i recommend his black binos? Definitely, but ONLY for H-Alpha use and daytime scoping.

Ill write to Baader to see if they have plans to fix the polarisation in future Mrk V's. That would make it my dream bino.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ricochet]

8 hours ago, Pingster said:

Richochet, I have two of Denises Black binos. They are basically white Zeiss Binos Painted black. One is very old as looking down the prisms i can see brown rust.

The Willems Optics Bino comes with an amazing x2 dinky barlow. Ive compared it with my x2 TV Powermate... and tho the PM is only slightly better, thw WO makes it look like an over engineered product. I believe i own very high end accessories so its not them to blame, as i am able to reach focus without having to use any barlows if i desire. This is achieved by using a Baader T2 Prism Diagonal which as a super short light path.

I am surprised to hear that Zeiss binoviewers, even old ones, are so far behind the MarkVs. I can see why you would have swapped without prior knowledge of this performance difference.

Thanks for the additional feedback on the supercharging downsides. The prisms being smaller than the holes sounds like a real issue.

[Space Hopper]

On 05/06/2018 at 23:59, Pingster said:

Jetstream, supercharging does have benefits, the main one is to have wide FOV eyepieces ie 24mm Panoptics that dont vignette. 

The Mk V has 30mm prisms, and works perfectly with 24 Panoptics with no vignetting at all.

I don't understand why you would want to modify them in the first place (unless they were obviously dirty, damaged / in need of collimation)