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ATIK 414ex Mono.... good upgrade from DSLR ??

Craney

By Craney
in Discussions - Cameras

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Craney

Craney

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Hello everybody,

I am thinking about buying a cooled mono (second hand) as an upgrade from a modded DSLR 600D.

Narrow band is a strong possibility as I would like to take full advantage of any clear skies and try to filter out the Moon...!!

I am interested in Galaxies and the smaller DSO's as opposed to the wide field monsters  ( Heart, NGC 7000 etc)..... I can always get them with the Canon until funds enable a bigger mono chip etc...  The telescopes I would use it with would be  80ED Equinox, 200PDS and a newly acquired SW 10 Quattro.

The Atik 414ex seems like a quality item.  So, is it the best camera to make the step or is there an undiscovered gem out there that I should know of ??

The FOV will be small I know, but I would like to learn the dark art of the filter wheel and cooling first before thinking of bigger and broader horizons.  Getting a quality camera to do 'everything' might lead to a lot of research, head scratching and  then end up with no clear answer.

Any advice, pointers, experience, photos  much appreciated.

 

Sean.

 

 

 

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Craney

Craney

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Yes, indeed... tempted by an awful lot of kit......   the 1600 is one of those all singin', all dancin'  CMOS types...in fact,  IT IS  the quality do 'everything' camera.

  Problem is I think people love them so much that they are not selling them second hand.   Well, not at my budget level anyway. 

The ATIK seems to have a great quality assurance attached to it, has excellent manufacturer back up,  is  easy to use (apparently) and comes in at the sub £700 level.....

As an intermediate step to greater things , it seems to hit the spot......

But somebody might just come along and set me straight before I plunge in.

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tooth_dr

tooth_dr

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30 minutes ago, Craney said:

Naughty !!!!!!.....  uh-errrrr.......

Be honest @tooth_dr  that URL has been burning a hole in your web history.....  so tempting....

 

 

I’m an impulse buyer ?

Sorry this is derailing your thread. 

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Adreneline

Adreneline

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Hi.

I have an Atik 414osc and I love the convenience it affords and the quality of the image it provides with my ED80DS-Pro. There are times I just want to get an image without a lot of extra stuff, e.g. filters and stuff. The Atik is relaible and well made and cools easily and consistently to -10 or -15 and works a treat with SGPro.

I also have an Atik 428ex mono and I am very pleased with the NB and LRGB results I have obtained. I would imagine a 414 mono would provide equally pleasing results. I have to say my interest is very much moving from galaxies to nebula and I've just married the 428 with a Samyang 135mm lens. The CCD calculations tell you this results in significant undersampling but I am more than delighted with my early results.

So much choice and so many things to consider all the time.

Good luck :)

 

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Craney

Craney

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Yes @Adrenelinethe convenience of the OSC is a very strong point in its favour.  Yet, I'm thinking about the resolution of a 1300x1000 ish chip with the Bayer Matrix issue added to it..... can you enlarge your photos to any great degree without pixellation becoming evident ??

Good to hear comments on reliability and workmanship.

Narrow Band.    Always fancied a good go at it and a Mono will keep me busy and out of mischief.    I find the smaller DSO's more interesting ie. variety of galaxies shapes and structures, pletaary nebs etc..., but I suppose the targets are predetermined by the imaging equipment. Hence the interest in a smaller chipped 414ex at the moment...

Sean.

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Adreneline

Adreneline

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13 minutes ago, Craney said:

can you enlarge your photos to any great degree without pixellation becoming evident ??

I think pixelation will be a problem if you go too far.

This is an image I posted last year using the osc. Compared with many this is a pretty modest end result but it gives you an idea of what I acheived. I used a R/F but to be honest I have also used the ED80 without a R/F and with a sensor the size of the 414 or 428 I cannot discern any issues.

HTH

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Marky1973

Marky1973

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Hi Sean

I believe it is my 414ex you have been looking at. The images in the ABS thread were slightly cropped, so you can "zoom" in a bit without too much pixelation. I have attached another picture of M51 and the corresponding FOV from Astronomy Tools to show you that you can crop and what you should get with the 414ex with and without the Skywatcher 0.85 reducer and the ED80 - which is the scope I have been using the ATIK with. With, or without the reducer, the combination leads to a slightly over-sampled image - you can check the astronomy tools CCD suitability tool here = https://astronomy.tools/calculators/ccd_suitability though I didn't find out about that until after I had been using the combo for over a year, and never noticed any issues with it.

Obviously the smaller sensor will mean you have to aim for carefully an you will not be able to fit in sprawling nebula, but there are still plenty of targets to have a crack at - even if you just go mono or Ha to start with before buying the LRGB filters.

It is a very easy to use camera and the ATIK capture software is basic, but very easy to use.

I know this isn't the for sale thread, but if you do have any more questions, feel free to ask them here, there or you can message me - happy to answer anything.

Cheers

Mark

 

 

download.png

m51-finished-1st.jpg

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Marky1973

Marky1973

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8 minutes ago, Adreneline said:

I think pixelation will be a problem if you go too far.

This is an image I posted last year using the osc. Compared with many this is a pretty modest end result but it gives you an idea of what I acheived. I used a R/F but to be honest I have also used the ED80 without a R/F and with a sensor the size of the 414 or 428 I cannot discern any issues.

HTH

Woah....jinx! ?

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iansmith

iansmith

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I've been using the 414ex for two years now and found it to be a sturdy and reliable camera. It makes a great pairing with my C11, has worked without issues and delivers some nice images. You can see them at https://www.astrobin.com/users/astroian/

Make sure you get it with a power supply that can handle at least 2.5 amps, you'll need it for the cooling.

I don't know what scope you'll be using it on ( haven't read the entire thread) so I don't know if the large pixels will be a match for your scope.

Cheers, Ian

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LightBucket

LightBucket

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10 hours ago, tooth_dr said:

Yeah it isn’t the pro version

There are four versions, 1 which is the one for sale on 365, that did not have the USB hub, nor the heated window and the front came unscrewed very easily When it shouldn’t, which caused issues with condensation.

version 2 had the USB hub on the back.

version 3 had the USB hub, the heated window and the front was bolted down with four Allen bolts.

Pro version has the 256mb memory buffer, plus other enhancements above, the memory buffer was there to help with data transfer....

so you really need to go for version 3 or the pro version... :)

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tooth_dr

tooth_dr

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50 minutes ago, LightBucket said:

There are four versions, 1 which is the one for sale on 365, that did not have the USB hub, nor the heated window and the front came unscrewed very easily When it shouldn’t, which caused issues with condensation.

version 2 had the USB hub on the back.

version 3 had the USB hub, the heated window and the front was bolted down with four Allen bolts.

Pro version has the 256mb memory buffer, plus other enhancements above, the memory buffer was there to help with data transfer....

so you really need to go for version 3 or the pro version... :)

Good to know, havent looked into them in any great detail.

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Adam J

Adam J

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It will work reasonably well for galaxies given that you are working at long ish focal lengths 1000mm with the 200PDS and 10 inch F4 ~1.33/ arcsec. I dont see why you would not produce some great images with this combo. You will have better resolution than the DSLR and much much better sensitivity. 

I am not sure its optimal for nebula with the ED80...but its not bad either. 

The 1600 is a better camera for you in the end, but its more expensive, I would not buy the older V1 / V2 these days...to troublesome especially at that price. 

 

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Adam J

Adam J

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1 minute ago, Craney said:

You are as bad as the tooth_dr  for spending my money !!   ;) 

You can get the older ones....but you would not find me paying more than 700 for one. 

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Craney

Craney

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14 hours ago, Marky1973 said:

 

m51-finished-1st.jpg

Hi @Marky1973  yes it is your Atik I have been looking at, I will drop you a message after the wisdom and advice has flooded in to this thread...

 I would like a go at LRGB and NB and  a small FOV is not a bad thing for galaxies.  Looking at your image, and comparing it to my 'best' effort of M51, 

1958111782_m5154mins10Q4PS1600cropuhc.thumb.jpg.0d078d8fc71562176fc6cf032eb209a4.jpg

(54mins modded 600D with a SW 10Quattro4......)    there is a quantum leap in image quality with the ATIK...  even though my Canon has 18Mpx, it isn't any more resolved and has picked up a lot of noise, this was shot in March and has had the full English of calibration frames... biaseddarkflats etc.....   My image has been stretched, curved and photo-shopped to virtual transparency !!!!

 

Do you know if Atiks can be run via SharpCap ??   or are you restricted to the supplied software   (Artemis ??)

Cheers,

Sean.

 

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Craney

Craney

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5 hours ago, iansmith said:

I've been using the 414ex for two years now and found it to be a sturdy and reliable camera. It makes a great pairing with my C11, has worked without issues and delivers some nice images. You can see them at https://www.astrobin.com/users/astroian/

Make sure you get it with a power supply that can handle at least 2.5 amps, you'll need it for the cooling.

I don't know what scope you'll be using it on ( haven't read the entire thread) so I don't know if the large pixels will be a match for your scope.

Cheers, Ian

Hi @iansmith     Good feedback on the ruggedness and reliability.  Thanks.

My scopes...(cough...ahem...)  range from an 80mm ED Equinox to a 200 PDS to a Meade 8"SCT to a SW 10QuattroF4  (my latest acquisition... phoar what a beaut !!)..... plus various flatteners and reducers.....  so pretty much a range of focal lengths from  400mm to 2000mm !!

I have a HEQ5 and NEQ6 mount with a lacerta Mgen II  guiding system.......  all to be fully mastered..... as is the nature of this hobby.

Rgds,

Sean.

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iansmith

iansmith

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52 minutes ago, Craney said:

Hi @iansmith

...

range from an 80mm ED Equinox to a 200 PDS to a Meade 8"SCT to a SW 10QuattroF4  (my latest acquisition... phoar what a beaut !!)..... plus various flatteners and reducers.....  so pretty much a range of focal lengths from  400mm to 2000mm !!

...

Wow, that's quite the collection! The Atik would be well suited to the longer focal length scopes such as the Meade.

Forgot to mention, the ASCOM drivers for it have been reliable this last couple of years running on a Windows 7 machine and ASCOM 6. It works quite happily with SGPro, etc.

Cheers, Ian

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Marky1973

Marky1973

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6 hours ago, Craney said:

Hi @Marky1973  yes it is your Atik I have been looking at, I will drop you a message after the wisdom and advice has flooded in to this thread...

 I would like a go at LRGB and NB and  a small FOV is not a bad thing for galaxies.  Looking at your image, and comparing it to my 'best' effort of M51, 

1958111782_m5154mins10Q4PS1600cropuhc.thumb.jpg.0d078d8fc71562176fc6cf032eb209a4.jpg

(54mins modded 600D with a SW 10Quattro4......)    there is a quantum leap in image quality with the ATIK...  even though my Canon has 18Mpx, it isn't any more resolved and has picked up a lot of noise, this was shot in March and has had the full English of calibration frames... biaseddarkflats etc.....   My image has been stretched, curved and photo-shopped to virtual transparency !!!!

 

Do you know if Atiks can be run via SharpCap ??   or are you restricted to the supplied software   (Artemis ??)

Cheers,

Sean.

 

Hi Sean

I have never used it, but I am pretty sure it will work with Sharpcap.

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Allinthehead

Allinthehead

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On 23/05/2018 at 08:53, LightBucket said:

so you really need to go for version 3 or the pro version... :)

I wouldn't discount version 1 or 2 so quickly. I use version 2 and I've had no issues. Works first time every time. I've also had the non pro version of the 071 and currently own the pro version and as far as the buffer goes it makes no difference when using darks. If you can get a good deal on version 2 then go for it.

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LightBucket

LightBucket

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55 minutes ago, Allinthehead said:

I wouldn't discount version 1 or 2 so quickly. I use version 2 and I've had no issues. Works first time every time. I've also had the non pro version of the 071 and currently own the pro version and as far as the buffer goes it makes no difference when using darks. If you can get a good deal on version 2 then go for it.

The buffer has nothing to do with using darks....it’s for people who still use USB 2.0 to allow a faster transfer of the large data files...and so as not to cause a bottleneck, using darks....?? Not sure what you mean by that to be honest, as it has no bearing...

And the issues with Version 2 was the lack of a heated window, and so frosting was a slight issues for some...

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