Kit for travelling

[philhilo]

 I am looking for a scope that I can use out in dark skies places with groups who I take climbing and foraging. I am renovating a TAL 1 but now think that the pedestal stand is going to be a mare in a muddy sloping field. So looking for another telescope ( it might be an excuse).  Is a second hand Skywatcher 200P a good idea? Thinking tripod better for uneven ground, higher magnification for better images of dramatic objects I.e planets and galaxies? Will it be mare to set up out of the car in a field, will collimation take forever? Is it fragile (the TAL is a tank, literally according to rumours). Would I be better with a similar Celestron, should I think of something different again or stick with the TAL? I am at least getting back up to speed with the TAL 1 and it's renovation.

[Louis D]

An 8" Dob is going to be a bit heavy and bulky to haul more than about 50 feet or so.  I'd go with an 80mm short tube refractor on a lightweight tripod with a fluid head.  That's what I took on the road for the eclipse last summer.  I also took along a 32mm plossl and an 8-24mm zoom along with an inexpensive mirror diagonal.  I didn't want to be out too much if my car was broken into while sitting in a motel parking lot.

[JoeP]

Perhaps the heritage flextube 130p? Good aperture, compact and not too expensive.

[Ricochet]

How far will you be carrying the telescope? Are you just taking it out of your car to the field next to your car or are you planning on carrying it on the hike that you're on at the time? A 200p is not a small scope, especially if you get one on a large eq mount (which I would avoid with a reflector anyway).

[philhilo]

Thanks for the replies folks.

Definitely not planning on hiking with it! Put it up next to the car/camper as an after dinner experience. Was thinking tripod would be a better bet on uneven/sloping ground. What's the issue with reflectors and tripods? The TAL's pedestal is bomb proof but impractical in the field - no quick way of dealing with slopes. Thought the tripod mount would at least allow adjustment, and if it all goes well then I could get a GOTO kit and make things even easier when the skies are patchy. As the TAL has never required collimation, I am getting my first taste of that as I rebuild it, and wondered how long and how better suited different scopes are to travelling? Want setup to be reasonably user friendly for guests to view through. The most sensible answer would be a small refractor, but that doesn't really impress with the planetary (as planets are going to be the biggest wow followed by the bigger galaxies) images. 

I guess the reality is I also want an 8" as an upgrade, but I want to make sure it will be usable in the field and I have found one on an EQ5 mount at a very reasonable price, ~£200. Done some reading on the heritage Dob - wow, what good value for money, and if I was going to keep it at home for me, brilliant. However will it deal with slopey ground, and getting 4 - 8 first time viewers a decent view of a planet, that's a lot of nudging? 

Phil

[Nyctimene]

50 minutes ago, philhilo said:

Done some reading on the heritage Dob - wow, what good value for money, and if I was going to keep it at home for me, brilliant. However will it deal with slopey ground, and getting 4 - 8 first time viewers a decent view of a planet, that's a lot of nudging? 

The Skywatcher Heritage 130 P Flextube can be put on any standard photo tripod (1/4" thread in the 2" standard dovetail), or an AltAz mount with tripod, e.g. the AZ 5 or Vixen Porta, to deal with uneven grounds and to get approximate height of the eyepiece. I'd stay away from equatorial mounts, if you want to have easy handling in the fields - the Heritage 130 P can be used intuitively, nudging included. It tracks very smooth, and can be used up to mag 200x and beyond, so very recommendable for lunar and planetary observations. I bought one in 2017, and I'm very pleased with it.

Stephan

[Ricochet]

59 minutes ago, philhilo said:

What's the issue with reflectors and tripods?

The issue is not with tripods, but with eq mounts. An eq mount rotates the telescope to match the apparent rotation of objects in the sky. With the focuser sticking out of the side this means that the focuser position changes depending on where in the sky you point the telescope. While tracking a single object for a short time it shouldn't be an issue but when switching from one object to another you will have to slacken off the tube rings and rotate the tube to get the focuser back in a useable position. 

8" will show a lot, especially from a dark site, but it sounds like you won't have it set up long before observing so you will definitely need to add a cooling fan to be able to show anyone high power views. 

[Louis D]

How about an 8" SCT on a fork mount?  The field tripods they come on are adjustable to level it, the eyepiece remains in about the same position no matter where you point it, it's relatively compact to fit in a car, and it tracks even if it isn't goto via a declination motor if mounted on a wedge and polar aligned.  If you have some bucks to spare, the 8" Celestron EdgeHD is fully goto, throws up some very impressive views of the planets, and it can be controlled via a tablet.  I was thoroughly impressed by one at a star party.

[Stu]

Any idea of budget you are comfortable with Phil?

Louis' suggestion above is obviously a nice one but not cheap. The 200p dobsonian is a very good value and could be a very effective option. A lot depends on how far you need to carry it, and how difficult storage is.

I'm posting these images up as an indication of what might be possible for a simple tripod mounted solution. Two scopes are nice but not needed for your purpose. An 8" SCT mounted on a decent altaz mount on a sturdy tripod can work very well, even a 6" would be nice, smaller and quicker to cool.

[scarp15]

If you plan on impressing a group, as part of an outdoor pursuits experience, it will soon become Globular Cluster season. M13, M92, M5, M3, many more as well as a number of NGC listings to visit. A dark sky and some aperture will provide the desired impact. Extending upon the contributed suggestions for setting up on slopping uneven ground, is not clear. Even with a tripod there are hazards, such as if somebody trips and topples the instrument, quite unconventional. Therefore if you are familiar with the lumps and bumps in the ground, perhaps some measure to pack the ground to a more even smoother placement, a couple of sandbags perhaps. Some kind of rigid base / mat might help to. If you come up with a good solution, an 8" dob will do wonders for observing the Globular's, some Galaxies etc. 

[philhilo]

Gotcha, I guess that exposes my level of knowledge with the TAL, find object go, find object go. Not too much tracking. I guess a bit of planning will be needed (and a good supply of wild beers and wines to keep people occupied between objects). Cooling fan, I guess it will be sitting in the vehicle all day which might be hot or cold, so would need to think about setting it up early and using a dew shield?

[philhilo]

Thank you all for keeping my brain ticking on this one. Budget, this side of £300 - rules out the CGT alas, and would need a extra 0 for the CGT with GOTO! Something to aim at if the business goes well. All these new to me objects have me salivating and always excited to introduce new folks to really seeing the universe as opposed to being fed images. There are an awful lot used twice telescopes out there on EBay and Gumtree (8" OTAs usually around £150) and maybe something will come up.

Hyper Giant - nice simple set up, and ample for seeing bright easy to find objects? Brown Dwarf, good suggestions. It's got me looking at my local  astronomical societies to see if I can go have a play with these different bigger set ups to  see what is going to work the best. The Dobs are excellent value and I could go to an EQ mount later on. Really struggling with the concept of a group trying to observe without endlessly relocating objects, I guess I need to see that in action. Storage......now that's a factor with the Dobs. They don't pack down well do they, I guess that's where the flex tubes come in, but then you pay a penalty with set up times I suspect, many, many swings and roundabouts. Getting an easily set up flat area would be a solution, not that hard to do......maybe. I think my mission will be to get the TAL1 back up and running (trying to bargain to get a few parts to help it, and then tackle collimation from a pile of pieces to a fully collimated scope), really get to grips with that and at the same time go my hands on other set ups in the field to figure out what's going to work.

[Alfian]

I have had a Tal1 and various Tal mount bits. The Tal 1 Pillar mount is very good and tank barrel sturdy but not really suitable for lugging around and definitely wouldn't take to soft ground. I did modify one Tal 1 mount so it would a standard EQ5 type tripod and it works quite well BUT it can then not be remounted back on the pillar. Fortunately I had another mount so that wasn't a problem for me. There is another solution though and is that the Tal1 OTA can be fitted with tube rings from a 114mm reflector and mounted onto a standard Vixen style dovetail. The OTA can then be mounted on a steel legged AZ4 (which I also once had) and this works very nicely. An AZ4 would then give you something of an upgrade path. The Skywatcher Explorer 150p goes well (imo) on the AZ4 although the 200p might be a bit much. You could substitute an EQ5 for the AZ4 if you particularly favour EQ mounts and that would solve that one.

[Alfian]

On 3/3/2018 at 22:19, Stu said:

Any idea of budget you are comfortable with Phil?

Louis' suggestion above is obviously a nice one but not cheap. The 200p dobsonian is a very good value and could be a very effective option. A lot depends on how far you need to carry it, and how difficult storage is.

I'm posting these images up as an indication of what might be possible for a simple tripod mounted solution. Two scopes are nice but not needed for your purpose. An 8" SCT mounted on a decent altaz mount on a sturdy tripod can work very well, even a 6" would be nice, smaller and quicker to cool.

Stu, out of curiosity what tripod are you using in the pics.

[Louis D]

20 minutes ago, Alfian said:

Louis' suggestion above is obviously a nice one but not cheap.

Since no budget was originally stated, I was just throwing out another option.  Here in the states, I know folks who go camping and bring along a trailer and/or his and her ATVs or a power boat; so dropping a few grand on a telescope isn't that big of a deal to them.

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Louis D said:

Since no budget was originally stated, I was just throwing out another option.  Here in the states, I know folks who go camping and bring along a trailer and/or his and her ATVs or a power boat; so dropping a few grand on a telescope isn't that big of a deal to them.

Sorry Louis, wasn't meaning to suggest anything negative. No budget makes it very hard to judge!

[Louis D]

44 minutes ago, Stu said:

Sorry Louis, wasn't meaning to suggest anything negative.

None taken.  Every once in a while we get a big spender coming through here, and I like to help them spend their money. 

[philhilo]

Yep spent plenty of time in the States in the National Parks looking at RVs bigger than our house, with a Harley on the back and towing an SUV! So yes I can imagine a few thousand dollars on a telescope would be neither here nor there! If they keep buying them then we can snap them up at bargain prices. It is the same in many hobbies, slightly used dive kit is easy to come by, skiwear too.

 

[Stu]

2 hours ago, Alfian said:

Stu, out of curiosity what tripod are you using in the pics.

It's a bit of a luxury that I picked up off eBay quite some time ago, a Gitzo GT5542LS, rated up to 40kg but weighs less than 3kg. Very nice  

[philhilo]

2 hours ago, Alfian said:

I have had a Tal1 and various Tal mount bits. The Tal 1 Pillar mount is very good and tank barrel sturdy but not really suitable for lugging around and definitely wouldn't take to soft ground. I did modify one Tal 1 mount so it would a standard EQ5 type tripod and it works quite well BUT it can then not be remounted back on the pillar. Fortunately I had another mount so that wasn't a problem for me. There is another solution though and is that the Tal1 OTA can be fitted with tube rings from a 114mm reflector and mounted onto a standard Vixen style dovetail. The OTA can then be mounted on a steel legged AZ4 (which I also once had) and this works very nicely. An AZ4 would then give you something of an upgrade path. The Skywatcher Explorer 150p goes well (imo) on the AZ4 although the 200p might be a bit much. You could substitute an EQ5 for the AZ4 if you particularly favour EQ mounts and that would solve that one.

Thanks Alfian, that's all very useful info around the TAL. I had thought about remounting the TAL onto a tripod as a starter. Certainly worth considering as a back up, or even an option if space is at a premium (not that a 200mm takes up much more space than a 110mm. I have even thought about a TAL2M (6") - one went for £30 on ebay recently, but that still has the pier problem and wouldn't quite give me the wow factor of the 8". EQ5 - get used to the EQ5 then add 200mm Newtonian. That's a good learning and financial curve, but will check out an AZ4 for group handling.

[Louis D]

1 hour ago, philhilo said:

Yep spent plenty of time in the States in the National Parks looking at RVs bigger than our house, with a Harley on the back and towing an SUV!

Sadly, me too.  What's the point of bringing your house along when going camping?

As to the OP, tracking is truly a blessing when trying to share the view.  It's really annoying trying to jump in and out to recenter the object for either the current or next observer when using a non-tracking mount.

[Alfian]

51 minutes ago, philhilo said:

Thanks Alfian, that's all very useful info around the TAL. I had thought about remounting the TAL onto a tripod as a starter. Certainly worth considering as a back up, or even an option if space is at a premium (not that a 200mm takes up much more space than a 110mm. I have even thought about a TAL2M (6") - one went for £30 on ebay recently, but that still has the pier problem and wouldn't quite give me the wow factor of the 8". EQ5 - get used to the EQ5 then add 200mm Newtonian. That's a good learning and financial curve, but will check out an AZ4 for group handling.

The Tal1 is a bit rustic and its focuser (even if you have a later model) has its limitations but the essential optics are very good indeed and particularly great luna views. They are pretty bullet proof too so tailor made for outreach/group work.

[Alfian]

1 hour ago, Stu said:

It's a bit of a luxury that I picked up off eBay quite some time ago, a Gitzo GT5542LS, rated up to 40kg but weighs less than 3kg. Very nice  

Very nice indeed, seeing the Giro on the Gitzo made me think of a lightweight alternative to my own setup but will have to look at something more  modest, unless I get lucky.

[Stu]

11 minutes ago, Alfian said:

The Tal1 is a bit rustic and its focuser (even if you have a later model) has its limitations but the essential optics are very good indeed and particularly great luna views. They are pretty bullet proof too so tailor made for outreach/group work.

I have a lovely little TAL Alkor, the 65mm f7.7 Newt. Whilst the standard mount works quite well, I have put it in Munsen Rings with a dovetail so I can mount it on standard Vixen/Synta mounts. Totally reversible changes, and the rings have a similar agricultural feel to the as the scope! Works nicely on my AZGTi and Giro-WR.

[Stu]

Just now, Alfian said:

Very nice indeed, seeing the Giro on the Gitzo made me think of a lightweight alternative to my own setup but will have to look at something more  modest, unless I get lucky.

To be honest I posted it as an example not trying to suggest the same kit. A decent (but cheaper) photo tripod with one of the various Giro style mounts would do the trick very nicely. Doesn't have to be Gitzo/Ercole!