getting my first autoguider

[dan_19991]

hi there,

ive been looking for a affordable autoguider for a while and just cant find much, my current setup is NEQ6, SW 200p, and a crappy old celestron 70mm to use for guiding, ive recently been trying to use an old webcam and have taken the focusing unit out, but its just so noisy its almost imposible to distinguish between noise and stars, and thats when i can find focus, whhich has proved an even more difficult task, i wasted a whole night last nigh of clear skies trying to make it work and just couldnt. My budget is around the £100 or i could wait a few months and push it to £150 ish, but after managing to take one short image guided a few weeks ago i was so impressed with the step up in quiality i cant see much point in going back to unguided. 

ive seen a few mono cameras that advertise them as planetary cameras such as DMK 21AU618.AS.  but cant find a reason why it wouldnt be suitable for guiding?

If anyone knows of a camera suitable used or new for around the £100 mark and any experience theyve had with it thatd be great.

thanks 

[newbie alert]

I'm sure you will pick up a second hand guide cam for about that..make sure it's mono  thou.. have a look on classifieds here or astro buy and sell..

[dan_19991]

10 hours ago, newbie alert said:

I'm sure you will pick up a second hand guide cam for about that..make sure it's mono  thou.. have a look on classifieds here or astro buy and sell..

Thanks, yeah that’s what I’m hoping for, so would it matter if it’s classified as a planetary camera or is that just a name 

[RayD]

4 minutes ago, dan_19991 said:

Thanks, yeah that’s what I’m hoping for, so would it matter if it’s classified as a planetary camera or is that just a name 

Most guide cameras would double up as planetary cameras.  What makes a camera specifically a guide camera is if it has a ST4 guiding port.  You won't need one if you use pulse guiding with EQMOD and PHD2, so any camera of that type (planetary) should be fine. 

There are often some QHY5 and ZWO120mm cameras which come up on the classifieds for your budget, so worth keeping an eye out as both work very well as guide cameras.

[dan_19991]

3 hours ago, RayD said:

Most guide cameras would double up as planetary cameras.  What makes a camera specifically a guide camera is if it has a ST4 guiding port.  You won't need one if you use pulse guiding with EQMOD and PHD2, so any camera of that type (planetary) should be fine. 

There are often some QHY5 and ZWO120mm cameras which come up on the classifieds for your budget, so worth keeping an eye out as both work very well as guide cameras.

oh okay thanks for thanks, i do plan on pulse guiding but have been looking at the DMK 21AU618.AS. as there is one for sale for around £100 and they retail for triple that, but cant seem to find anyone using it as a guide camera. 

[RayD]

Just now, dan_19991 said:

oh okay thanks for thanks, i do plan on pulse guiding but have been looking at the DMK 21AU618.AS. as there is one for sale for around £100 and they retail for triple that, but cant seem to find anyone using it as a guide camera. 

There are a few I think.  I believe @Davey-T has one or two DMK cameras, but not sure if he uses them for guiding.  I wouldn't like to say yes as, like you, I've not seen reports of anyone using that actual camera for guiding.

[Davey-T]

Not got DMK, got a couple of Loadstars and a AA GPcam, these are "modern" guide cameras in 1.25" format so can be adjusted in and out, no reason the DMK shouldn't work just not as sensitive as newer cameras maybe.

You can also use the DMK for solar system imaging.

With a bit of research you can compare the pixel size and QE of the sensors.

Dave

[RayD]

25 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Not got DMK, got a couple of Loadstars and a AA GPcam, these are "modern" guide cameras in 1.25" format so can be adjusted in and out, no reason the DMK shouldn't work just not as sensitive as newer cameras maybe.

You can also use the DMK for solar system imaging.

With a bit of research you can compare the pixel size and QE of the sensors.

Dave

Sorry Dave my mistake, I thought I saw it mentioned somewhere, but then I struggle with days of the week so...........

[dan_19991]

1 hour ago, Davey-T said:

Not got DMK, got a couple of Loadstars and a AA GPcam, these are "modern" guide cameras in 1.25" format so can be adjusted in and out, no reason the DMK shouldn't work just not as sensitive as newer cameras maybe.

You can also use the DMK for solar system imaging.

With a bit of research you can compare the pixel size and QE of the sensors.

Dave

so ive had a look and from what ive found the qhy5 ii mono has a chip size of 6.66 mm (H) x 5.32 mm (V) and a pixel size of 5.2 m x 5.2 m, the QE graph however peaks at around the 55% mark

where as the  DMK 21AU618.AS. hasa chip size of of 4.46mm x 3.8mm and a pixel size of 5.6 x 5.6 and the QE peaks at around the 65% mark 

so for the DMK the QE peaks higher and has a larger pixel size but has a much smaller chip size, my question is which of these factors is most relevent to autoguiding?

[Davey-T]

Bigger chip size is better assuming you're using the 70mm Celestron it's certainly good enough for guiding.

Dave

[dan_19991]

6 minutes ago, Davey-T said:

Bigger chip size is better assuming you're using the 70mm Celestron it's certainly good enough for guiding.

Dave

so the qhy5ii would be better than the DMK? so it it soley the chip size that matters, and how does the QE come into it?

[ollypenrice]

16 hours ago, newbie alert said:

I'm sure you will pick up a second hand guide cam for about that..make sure it's mono  thou.. have a look on classifieds here or astro buy and sell..

For many years I guided our rigs using Atik 16ic CCDs. One was mono, one OSC. The arguments in favour of mono are clear enough but I actually found I could tell no difference. I never failed to find a guide star.

Olly

[alacant]

On 8/1/2018 at 12:52, dan_19991 said:

budget is around the £100

I'm using a zwo clone which works exactly as the original 120mm. HTH.

[pushrod]

Just a small word of warning -  i have come across people who had problems marrying their autoguider to their finderscope when they have bought them separately. I don't believe the problems are insurmountable (usually to do with achieving focus) but they can be very dispiriting . I know it is much more than your stated budget but the Orion magnificent mini autoguider package (c £280) has worked very well for me and is dead easy to use with PHD (free download). It is designed for scopes with a focal length of less than 1500mm.

[alexbb]

4 minutes ago, alacant said:

I'm using a zwo clone which works exactly as the original 120mm. HTH.

Although they might be zwo alike, the QC is questionable on some clones. An acquaintance got one and the DEC and RA commands were reverted in one direction. Ie. RA+ was RA+, DEC+ was DEC+, RA- was DEC- and DEC- was RA-.

Check FLO's clearance https://www.firstlightoptics.com/offers/offer_touptek-mono-imaging-and-guide-camera-gcmos01200kpa_86671.html for 105 pounds.

[newbie alert]

30 minutes ago, ollypenrice said:

For many years I guided our rigs using Atik 16ic CCDs. One was mono, one OSC

I've actually got a atik 16hr which I'm starting to get up and running ..my first ccd..

I've always been told a mono is 4 times more sensitive because it hasn't got the Bayer matrix

Nothing to do with above post thou as I'm not guiding with it

[alacant]

26 minutes ago, moise212 said:

DEC and RA commands were reverted

Oh dear. I think the issue is solved by updating to the latest firmware from the zwo site. HTH.

[alexbb]

3 minutes ago, alacant said:

Oh dear. I think the issue is solved by updating to the latest firmware from the zwo site. HTH.

I can search through a conversation, but I remember the guys were believing some wires were wrongly connected.

[Davey-T]

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 11:52, dan_19991 said:

If anyone knows of a camera suitable used or new for around the £100 mark and any experience theyve had with it thatd be great.

thanks 

A used Altair Astro GP Cam, one of the first ones that have been superseded by the GP Cam2, should be available for around £100.0. fitted straight through, ie no diagonal, if you haven't got enough back focus you just need a 1.25 extension.

Dave

[jjosefsen]

There is also the QHY5R-II which is marketed as an intro level planetary/guider £99:

https://www.modernastronomy.com/shop/specials/qhy5r-ii-colour-guide-and-planetary-camera-shipped-to-eu/

I contemplated this for my guiding setup, but ultimately I wen't with the slightly more sensitive QHY5-II mono camera.

 

[alacant]

3 hours ago, moise212 said:

some wires were wrongly connected.

Dunno. It's working fine here, but I'm using pulse rather than ST4 anyway. HTH.

[dan_19991]

thanks to everyone for the replies, i think ive decided to keep an eye out on astobuysell and alternatives, but if nothing comes up i think itll be a QHY5 ii.

[CrashEd]

Hi, not sure if you have the optical side of things covered (it sounds as though you do), but I have the following finder/guider for sale in the classifieds - it's not perfect as a guider but will get you up and running cheaply. Just a thought. PM me if you're interested. 

  

[dan_19991]

On 1/11/2018 at 12:23, CrashEd said:

Hi, not sure if you have the optical side of things covered (it sounds as though you do), but I have the following finder/guider for sale in the classifieds - it's not perfect as a guider but will get you up and running cheaply. Just a thought. PM me if you're interested. 

  

thanks for the offer, but my scope did come with a straight through finder.