Explore scientific - Argon purged VS cold weather

[N3ptune]

Hello I have this question popping out, these eyepiece with gas inside, they must have some sort of rubber gaskets to seal them? I would like to know if they can tolerate cold weather, like -15 celcius. It's the coldest I can tolerate myself for approx 1.5h maximum of observation, between 0 and -10 i can last 1.5 or even 2 hours outside.

I fear the thermal expansion could mess up the seals causing a leak of gas. Very cold in Canada.

What do you think?

Thanks

 

[Ruud]

My guess would be that the eyepieces will handle -15°C well enough, but that you'll still need to heat them to prevent them from building up a layer of frost from your breath and the water that evaporates from you eye. And of course,don't lick the tripod.

[Louis D]

They probably use the same technology as sealed binoculars and spotting scopes since they come from the same factories.  Find out what they are spec'ed to as far as temperature as a reference point.

[N3ptune]

Hello, I find nothing, no specifications about the weather.

I wrote a little note to ES, If they don't reply.. (most likely) ill assume they can't support cold like at -15 and build some kind of heating cabinet for cold nights.

The same question could apply with the heat,I know I left my binoculars inside the hot car one time and I now see melting gum all around the field stop...

 

 

[N3ptune]

OK I guess it's not common in UK or in US to get -15 celcius.

But if anyone had any real experiences with these ES eyepiece in extreme cold, I would be interested to know.  Problems, no problems?

 

 

 

 

[Stu]

Just now, N3ptune said:

OK I guess it's not common in UK or in US to get -15 celcius.

But if anyone had any real experiences with these ES eyepiece in extreme cold, I would be interested to know.  Problems, no problems?

 

 

 

 

Again, I believe @jetstream may have used some ES eyepieces but certainly he observes in extreme cold, worth checking.

[N3ptune]

That's true, I totally forgot about @jetstream maybe he has some good experiences with this. 

I wrote another e-mail to ES this morning but this time with my invoice attached. (first time was a message from their website application only) Maybe this will force things a bit to know the temperature range specs of their EPs, (if they want to share such information.)

I called my local photo store to ask about the resistance of binoculars to cold but they only said the Nitrogen purged are waterproof and resist cold. No specs on temperature for Nikons's binoculars.

[Ruud]

Did you ever read the allbinos.com endurance test? The nikons weren't bad at all. They came out fifth and sixth of 23.

With binoculars things are different though: elements have to turn and slide with respect to one another while remaining water resistant. That puts high demands on the lubricants used. They must neither go sticky in the cold nor start to run in the heat.

The endurance test is here: https://www.allbinos.com/18.23-binoculars_review-summary-Endurance_test_of_8x42_binoculars_Final_results_and_summary.html. At the bottom of the page is a link to the individual tests and the ranking of the 23 binoculars.

Anyway, it's just an opinion, but I believe that with their purging, first N2 then Ar, ES solved a problem that none of the other major manufacturers' eyepieces had.

[jetstream]

The ES work superbly in the cold weather and I have observed with them at -35c (yup thats the right number). They seem to frost up less than other eyepieces and have durable coatings. After completely frosting up I use a warm hair dryer to thaw them out and with ZERO internal fogging. The ES are tough eyepieces and are out with me when the TV's stay in the house... I'm hoping the new Lunt 20mm HDC handles the cold like the ES, we'll find out soon.

[Charic]

4 hours ago, N3ptune said:

OK I guess it's not common in UK or in US to get -15 celcius.

 

It can get lower than that in Scotland, about 7 years ago -20°C and even lower in 1995 -27°C
With the wind factored in, every night below freezing feels much colder.

With regard to the original question, there appears to be no information as to any specific temperature limits, just the fact that Argon maintains its protective properties over a wider  range of temperatures. I've no doubt the seals used in the EP's work over a similar range of temperatures, probably colder than you can endure....

[N3ptune]

3 hours ago, jetstream said:

The ES work superbly in the cold weather and I have observed with them at -35c (yup thats the right number). They seem to frost up less than other eyepieces and have durable coatings. After completely frosting up I use a warm hair dryer to thaw them out and with ZERO internal fogging. The ES are tough eyepieces and are out with me when the TV's stay in the house... I'm hoping the new Lunt 20mm HDC handles the cold like the ES, we'll find out soon.

Good news then, thanks for that interesting feedback, if you tried them at -35 and they are ok, it means they should be very good.

5 hours ago, Ruud said:

The endurance test is here: https://www.allbinos.com/18.23-binoculars_review-summary-Endurance_test_of_8x42_binoculars_Final_results_and_summary.html. At the bottom of the page is a link to the individual tests and the ranking of the 23 binoculars.

 

Ill look at the endurance test, when i return from the restaurant.  (Pizza time)

1 hour ago, Charic said:

It can get lower than that in Scotland, about 7 years ago -20°C and even lower in 1995 -27°C
With the wind factored in, every night below freezing feels much colder
With regard to the original question, there appears to be no information as to any specific temperature limits, just the fact that Argon maintains its protective properties over a wider  range of temperatures. I've no doubt the seals used in the EP's work over a similar range of temperatures, probably colder than you can endure....

Here during the winter we must have at least 30 very cold days per year between -15 ans -35. I would be glad to have -20 once per 7 years, My car would like it too, (:

Well it's looking good for resistance so far, you are probably right, they are probably more resistant then I think.

 

 

[Louis D]

22 hours ago, N3ptune said:

Here during the winter we must have at least 30 very cold days per year between -15 ans -35. I would be glad to have -20 once per 7 years, My car would like it too, (:

Where I grew up in the upper Midwest, during most winters we spent many weeks below 0 °F (-18 °C) and it got as low as -20 °F (-29 °C).  However, I wasn't into astronomy back then, so I can't offer up any advice there.

It is indeed very hard on cars.  That's part of why I moved to Texas (that, and plenty of tech jobs with a low cost of living).  I've had cars for 14+ years with no rust or any body issues.  Summer heat and humidity does tend to hang on longer than up north.  Fall/winter/spring totally make up for it, though.

[N3ptune]

I just want to add an information to this thread.. some Nikon binoculars are capable of withstanding to at least -20C for nitrogen purged model and even -30C for another model. That's interesting.

But explore scientific will not reply any of my emails about their Argon purged eyepieces.. Disappointed a bit of course.I wrote to service@explorescientific.com and even to jeff@explorescientific.com (To ask about Service@es.com) but nothing these addresses are completely dead.

Great eyepieces , bad customer service.

==============

Infos on the binoculars came from the people at a Montréal store called photoservice.ca they called the Nikon representative for me to know about the resistance of the binocularies to extreme cold, that's awesome customer service, I'll go buy there one day for sure.

[25585]

On 29 September 2017 at 18:07, Ruud said:

Did you ever read the allbinos.com endurance test? The nikons weren't bad at all. They came out fifth and sixth of 23.

With binoculars things are different though: elements have to turn and slide with respect to one another while remaining water resistant. That puts high demands on the lubricants used. They must neither go sticky in the cold nor start to run in the heat.

The endurance test is here: https://www.allbinos.com/18.23-binoculars_review-summary-Endurance_test_of_8x42_binoculars_Final_results_and_summary.html. At the bottom of the page is a link to the individual tests and the ranking of the 23 binoculars.

Anyway, it's just an opinion, but I believe that with their purging, first N2 then Ar, ES solved a problem that none of the other major manufacturers' eyepieces had.

Binoculars with individual, not central, focusing eye pieces are best as only 2 moving parts. 

For any optic, if the manufacturer states they are made to military spec xxxxx or purpose built for expeditions/climates/weather, I would prioritise those. 

More generally, marine/nautical (not water proof) is a good guide.