Leica ASPH Zoom Question

[jetstream]

11 hours ago, Piero said:

I never considered adding the spacers before the 2-to-1.25 adapter. That's interesting!

I don't know enough about optics so I keep the 1.25" nosepiece as far "up and away" from the fast light cone in the dobs as I can. This also works with the fracs/diagonals- in my pictures the 2"-T2 adapter ring is not used- instead screwing the barlow element/nosepiece directly into the Baader eyepiece holder. It gives a bit more room.

[Piero]

 

 

29 minutes ago, jetstream said:

I don't know enough about optics so I keep the 1.25" nosepiece as far "up and away" from the fast light cone in the dobs as I can. This also works with the fracs/diagonals- in my pictures the 2"-T2 adapter ring is not used- instead screwing the barlow element/nosepiece directly into the Baader eyepiece holder. It gives a bit more room.

With my dob I use the baader in 1.76x mode (2"-to-1.25" adapter + 2"-T2 adapter ring + 1 spacer + VIP-1.25"-nosepiece) so that it works with both 1.25" eps and the ZZ. 

 

### Off-topic (..still an example of weird/powerful things one can do with the Baader VIP) ###

I recently found an interesting use for that ring. Some time ago I bought a 2"-to-1.25" adapter which was used before the moonlite replaced the standard focuser. The idea is quite simple:

- 2"-to-1.25" adapter

- 2" filter (e.g. Lumicon OIII) 

- 2"-to-T2 ring

- 1.25" nosepiece 

This new tool allows me to use my 1.25" eyepieces with my 2" filters on a 1.25" focuser. Basically, in theory I can use the 2" Lumicon OIII with the 24 Pan on my TV60. This would be cool and I'm looking forward to trying it one the Veil nebula. 

 

[John]

Lots to get my head around with all these options

 

[Pig]

It's all quite simple in practice John.... it's a bit like lego ? Lots to mess about with but essentially it's just different magnifications.

[Stu]

I tended just to use the VIP as a x2 Barlow and get a 3.6 to 7.2mm zoom which is ideal under most conditions for me anyway. Going to x2.5 might work for others.

[Piero]

Shaun is dead right! 

Here is the scheme: http://www.baader-planetarium.com/en/downloads/dl/file/id/240/product/1062/calculating_different_magnifications_with_the_vip_barlow.pdf 

Essentially you have a Barlow with 0, 1, or 2 15mm extension rings to play with: 0 rings => 1.5x, 1 ring => 1.76x, and 2 rings => 2x . 

You can add extra spacers to achieve higher multiplication factors, but focus travel issues must be considered. To be honest I don't change these rings much. With my TV60, I use the VIP as 1.5x, with my dob as 1.76x .

As it is, the VIP allows you to use 1.25" eyepieces. 

 

If you want to use the VIP with the Leica AND with 1.25" eyepieces, an easy way is to remove the metallic ring on the top of the 2"-to-1.25" adapter. Doing so, you can use your 1.25" eyepieces as before AND you can use the Leica by simply screwing the 2"-to-1.25" adapter onto the 2" Leica adapter. 

If instead you just want to permanently leave the VIP attached to the Leica, you can play with the extensions as Gerry showed in his picture. Alternatively, you can also remove the 2-to-1.25" adapter and just use the extensions. Doing so the VIP will completely enter into your focuser. It depends on how much travel you have really.. 

Anyway, it's a very flexible system. In my opinion this is great because it almost always allows one to find a usable configuration. 

[jetstream]

On 2017-07-07 at 17:07, John said:

Lots to get my head around with all these options

 

Hey John, how about this bad boy

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p473_Zeiss-Abbe-Barlow-2x---1-25--and-T2-connection.html

 

[John]

Yes, I've looked at those Gerry

Are Zeiss any good ?

[jetstream]

I'm not sure

I love good glass...my VIP works so well I'm not driven to buy one of these...

Buy hey! I would love to read your review on one!

[Piero]

Some time ago, I did a bit of research on the Baader-Zeiss barlow 2x. Eventually I decided not to go for it. 

Reasons: 

1. I haven't found any report stating how it performs better than the Baader VIP; 

2. The Baader VIP is much more modular and cheaper;

3. The long nosepiece containing the lens is rather long and I suspect it could hit a few 1.25" diagonals;

4. The Barlow aperture seems rather small and this might cause vignette in 1.25" eyepieces with field stop close to 27mm;

5. The barrel is not filter-threaded. Somebody doesn't use this, but on solar observation, screwing the solar continuum filter on the barlow/tele-extender seems handy to me. 

6. (more personal reason). With my current equipment, I haven't found a use case for it.. (yet at least!)

 

Said this, the Baader click-lock is a nice feature. It must be a great barlow optically. I read some comment stating that it is parfocal at 2x. If this is true, well, this is a nice feature. Spacers can be added as one can do with the Baader VIP. The issue is that this barlow "starts" at 2x, skipping the highly convenient range 1.5x-2x which is supported by the VIP.

[Stu]

On 09/07/2017 at 00:26, jetstream said:

Hey John, how about this bad boy

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p473_Zeiss-Abbe-Barlow-2x---1-25--and-T2-connection.html

 

I have one of these...

...it's alright I s'pose  

Optically it is excellent as you would expect, and it sustains high multiples up to x4 with extension tubes. I find a similar benefit with my AP Barcon.

I agree with Piero's comments that it is a little less flexible at the lower end because it starts at x2 upwards but it is a very neat little bit of kit, works well with a Nag Zoom if you want silly high powers in a short focal length apo.

[Piero]

Leica + adapters + Baader/Zeiss 2x Barlow: https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/479562-do-any-barlows-offer-truely-superior-optics-best-barlows/page-2#entry6277138 

Nice combo..!

[Piero]

11 minutes ago, Stu said:

I have one of these...

...it's alright I s'pose  

Optically it is excellent as you would expect, and it sustains high multiples up to x4 with extension tubes. I find a similar benefit with my AP Barcon.

I agree with Piero's comments that it is a little less flexible at the lower end because it starts at x2 upwards but it is a very neat little bit of kit, works well with a Nag Zoom if you want silly high powers in a short focal length apo.

Hi Stu, may I ask you what do you think between the Baader Zeiss barlow 2x and the Baader VIP 2x in terms of colour rendition and transmission, please?

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Piero said:

Hi Stu, may I ask you what do you think between the Baader Zeiss barlow 2x and the Baader VIP 2x in terms of colour rendition and transmission, please?

Piero, in all honesty I would have to revisit these before I gave you a comment, it's been a while since I've used the VIP and with various kit changes I could not give you an accurate answer.

The Zeiss is also handy as it has a T2 thread on it so as you've posted it can be used easily with other adaptors such as the Leica ASPH.

[Piero]

Thank you,

Piero

[John]

One further question on the Leica ASPH zoom, if I may.

As I understand it, APM make 3 adapters for the zoom:

- a 1.25" adapter

- a 2" adapter with a 48mm thread astro filters

- a 2" adapter with a T2 thread on the barrel instead of the 48mm thread

Is that correct ?

Thanks

[Piero]

This is my little understanding.

If it were me, I would get a 2" adapter for an eyepiece like the Leica. This because of the size and weight. If you plan to add the VIP, you can naturally make it work anyway. 

I know that the 2" with T2 thread can be attached to a Baader 1.25" nosepiece adapter. Therefore you can still obtain a complete 1.25" mode in this way if you need. My zoom works exactly like this, although the 2" T2 adapter is different and also accepts 2" filters.

The 2" M48 adapter is interesting though. In single mode you can attach 2" filters as expected. With the VIP, you can still attach the 2" filter and then attach the VIP to the filter using the ring (see 29 below), 15mm extensions (25A, if you want to increase the VIP factor), and finally the VIP T2-1.25" nosepiece (4C,14). As the VIP enters in the focuser, the 2" filter is only holding the end part of the VIP, not the eyepiece.

Instead if you get the 2" T2 adapter, you could attach a filter using a T2-to-M48 adapter. Pretty sure Baader sells one.

 

 

 

[John]

Baader seem to be the "swiss army knife" of the astro equipment world - a tool for every task and usually a good quality one at that

[Highburymark]

1 hour ago, John said:

One further question on the Leica ASPH zoom, if I may.

As I understand it, APM make 3 adapters for the zoom:

- a 1.25" adapter

- a 2" adapter with a 48mm thread astro filters

- a 2" adapter with a T2 thread on the barrel instead of the 48mm thread

Is that correct ?

Thanks

That's my understanding too. I started using the 1.25" APM adapter, but once I bought a T2 prism for my frac, the 2" APM adapter with T2 thread was a much better and more robust  solution. The only negatives with the APMs are that the little plastic screws can start to strip after a while, but I'm sure replacements are easy to source.

[Piero]

3 minutes ago, John said:

Baader seem to be the "swiss army knife" of the astro equipment world - a tool for every task and usually a good quality one at that

I agree!

In the past I was a bit sceptical / confused about the high number of possible configurations. With a bit of time and practice, I realised that I only use few configurations and most of the adopters are actually left untouched.

When I bought my VIP, I wasn't aware of the scheme I posted above.. It took me a while to find out a use case for the ring n. 29 (2"-to-T2). At first I thought it was nearly useless.. After playing and finding out the combination 2"-to-1.25" adapter, 2" filter, 2"-to-T2 ring, T2-to-1.25" nosepiece, I can use 2" filters with my TV60. Now I have this filter tool which looks like a VIP and works for every 1.25" eyepiece.

[Stu]

12 minutes ago, Highburymark said:

The only negatives with the APMs are that the little plastic screws can start to strip after a while

I believe they switched to the plastic ones to avoid damaging the eyepiece itself. They would probably have been better using something a little harder, perhaps Delrin?

I've never quite worked out why it is not possible to produce something which fits on the Leica bayonet fitting to give a properly secure attachment, perhaps a patent issue or more likely just cost.

[Highburymark]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

 

 

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

I believe they switched to the plastic ones to avoid damaging the eyepiece itself. They would probably have been better using something a little harder, perhaps Delrin?

I've never quite worked out why it is not possible to produce something which fits on the Leica bayonet fitting to give a properly secure attachment, perhaps a patent issue or more likely just cost.

Indeed Stu - they were responding to customers when they changed the screws. Trouble is us customers are never happy! The plastic screws are ok - I just wish I had a couple of spare sets.

Tha Starlight Leica adapter which I've ordered from FLO actually does have a bayonet attachment as you mentioned. It means you can swap between native zoom and Leica 1.8x extender very easily and securely. It's pricey .....though about £100 less than the original cost when launched., so in a warped kind of way I feel like I'm getting a bargain.

[John]

Thanks again for all the feedback on these fascinating eyepieces

I've managed to secure a Leica ASPH zoom with the APM 2" adapter. It should be with me early next week. I'm considering the various barlow / extender options now.

Having read so much about these eyepieces over the years since they were "discovered" for astro use (around 2010 ?) I'm really looking forward to "trying for myself" in my scopes

My eyepiece cases could start to get lighter if it proves a success .......

 

[Piero]

1 hour ago, John said:

My eyepiece cases could start to get lighter if it proves a success .......

Good luck with this new experience!  I'm very curious to know how you find it.  

There is one VIP in stock here apparently: http://www.365astronomy.com/Baader-VIP-Barlowlens-2x-1-4-MC-built-of-T-2-components.html 

[Highburymark]

4 hours ago, John said:

Thanks again for all the feedback on these fascinating eyepieces

I've managed to secure a Leica ASPH zoom with the APM 2" adapter. It should be with me early next week. I'm considering the various barlow / extender options now.

Having read so much about these eyepieces over the years since they were "discovered" for astro use (around 2010 ?) I'm really looking forward to "trying for myself" in my scopes

My eyepiece cases could start to get lighter if it proves a success .......

 

Congratulations John,  I hope you'll be one of the legions of very happy owners. My Leica (and Barlow/extender) has effectively replaced 17.3 ,10mm  and 6mm Delos. The only medium-to-heavy fixed eyepiece I'm keeping is Ethos 13mm. Otherwise I'm just using 1.25" Panoptics. Nagler T6s and a single Delite.  For me, the ASPH takes the guesswork out of stargazing - you know you are getting widefield, ortho quality views with the capability to dial in best magnification. And next week I'll get to see how it performs with the FC-100 under dark Menorcan skies. Hope you get some clear nights yourself to test it out.