Leica ASPH Zoom Question

[Stu]

7 minutes ago, John said:

Thanks Stu.

Was the eyepiece that you tried one of the Leica ASPH's too ?

 

Yes, should have been specific but yes it was.

[Pig]

I have just checked mine and fortunately it is clear, thanks for the heads up John ?

[Piero]

Sorry to hear that. I wonder whether those particles on the internal lens are are part of the material for blackening the internal lateral surface and this comes partially out after some zoom use. The problem you describe seems to affect some Leica units. It's annoying and these things should not happen. At least Leica Takes this very seriously and provides an excellent customer service.

Any idea when you will have it back?

[John]

5 minutes ago, Piero said:

Sorry to hear that. I wonder whether those particles on the internal lens are are part of the material for blackening the internal lateral surface and this comes partially out after some zoom use. The problem you describe seems to affect some Leica units. It's annoying and these things should not happen. At least Leica Takes this very seriously and provides an excellent customer service.

Any idea when you will have it back?

Thanks Piero. I've read that possible explanation and also that it's possibly lubricant of some sort that sprays onto an internal lens surface from the zoom mechanism. Only Leical will know of course although they have committed to give me a full report of any work that is undertaken.

The eyepiece only went off yesterday so it's got to get there and to be examined so I'm not sure about how long it will take. Because I have other nice eyepieces to use I'm happy for them to take as long as they need to properly sort the matter.

Until I became aware of this issue, the eyepiece was impressing me a great deal. If they can sort it out and providing it stays sorted I can see that the eyepiece could play a central role in my observing in the future.

 

[Piero]

3 minutes ago, John said:

Thanks Piero. I've read that possible explanation and also that it's possibly lubricant of some sort that sprays onto an internal lens surface from the zoom mechanism. Only Leical will know of course although they have committed to give me a full report of any work that is undertaken.

The eyepiece only went off yesterday so it's got to get there and to be examined so I'm not sure about how long it will take. Because I have other nice eyepieces to use I'm happy for them to take as long as they need to properly sort the matter.

Until I became aware of this issue, the eyepiece was impressing me a great deal. If they can sort it out and providing it stays sorted I can see that the eyepiece could play a central role in my observing in the future.

As far as I know, Leica will clean the compromised lenses and I believe they will fix the problem once for all. I haven't heard any comment on the net of this issue coming back again after Leica cleaned/repaired the unit. You are right though, this should not happen particularly with a top-class and expensive eyepiece like that. 

I can understand a quality control issue, that's fine and can happen of course, but this problem is not very recent. I hope they have already revised and repaired all the units which are going to be sold. Just my thought of course.

[Pig]

2 minutes ago, Piero said:

I can understand a quality control issue, that's fine and can happen of course, but this problem is not very recent. I hope they have already revised and repaired all the units which are going to be sold. Just my thought of course.

Containing the issue in house is not an option if the problem is not discovered until it reaches the market place. I too would hope Leica have made sure there is not a repeat issue. As long as they treat customers that have been affected in the correct manner then all can be forgiven ?

[YKSE]

John,

As you've sent the zoom for service, maybe you can as well ask your contact to put a replacement eye-guard in the return package? Some have the eye-guard broken quite easily( mine is intack after three years), and Leica seems to be aware of the weakness of this eye-guard.

[Stu]

6 minutes ago, YKSE said:

John,

As you've sent the zoom for service, maybe you can as well ask your contact to put a replacement eye-guard in the return package? Some have the eye-guard broken quite easily( mine is intack after three years), and Leica seems to be aware of the weakness of this eye-guard.

Too true! I managed to have that problem too! I suspect it is related to removing and replacing the lens cover. If you make sure you squeeze the release tabs fully then I think it reduces the chances of the eyeguards breaking.

[John]

I picked up on the "tab squeezing" tip so no problems so far but I'll ask them for a spare anyway

 

[John]

41 minutes ago, Pig said:

Containing the issue in house is not an option if the problem is not discovered until it reaches the market place....

I think this may well be an issue that only crops up in operation. I'm guessing but it might be that a certain production run used one type of seal / lubricant that eventially leads to these deposits but the manufacture approach has since changed. The service should then both clean the lens and apply the revised approach.

We will see

[Pig]

10 minutes ago, John said:

I think this may well be an issue that only crops up in operation. I'm guessing but it might be that a certain production run used one type of seal / lubricant that eventially leads to these deposits but the manufacture approach has since changed. The service should then both clean the lens and apply the revised approach.

We will see

I would think so too John, I wouldn't imagine the volume is that massive to warrant cyclic testing equipment.

[John]

27 minutes ago, Pig said:

I would think so too John, I wouldn't imagine the volume is that massive to warrant cyclic testing equipment.

Perhaps they now have a guy who sits in a cubicle zooming 1000 times, then checking, then zooming another 1000 times, and checking ......

What a job !

 

[Pig]

Indeed, maybe they have artificial dark skies too ?

[Davey-T]

3 hours ago, John said:

You can see them looking through just the eyepiece (no scope) on the 25x setting but you need to either look at a pretty bright light source or look into the eye lens at a slightly oblique angle. If you move your head around while looking through the eye lens, if they are there, you will pick them up. They look a little like tiny bubbles but could be specks of dust or tiny spots of fluid of some sort. They tend to go out of focus and disappear when the eyepiece is "zoomed".

When I 1st noticed them I thought they might be a sort of reflection of a texture on the internal wall of the eyepiece tube but having observed the moon now it's clear that they are on one of the optical surfaces. They don't rotate when you zoom the eyepiece but it's quite possible that no optical elements are rotated during that operation anyway. 

 

 

Got me worried now John, just looked through mine at kitchen ceiling LED light and I can see black spots 

Generally use it in the LS60DS for solar and never noticed them, don't recall ever looking at the Moon through it.

Will try to take a picture tomorrow but could prove tricky

How long is the warranty ?

Dave

[John]

My "Like" for your post does not mean I'm pleased Dave, if you see what I mean

The warranty is 5 years.

If you check out the pics in the 3rd link I put in my post earlier on this, thats a good indication of what my issue looks like. The specks / dots only show against the moon when the zoom is 25x - 30x and fade out of focusr beyond that. The pic is taken looking through the eye lens and an angle without a scope attached I think.

They are not obvious but, for OCD optics folks like me, once you know they are there, you look for them, and see the darn things

[Davey-T]

Reading the CN posts and looking at the picture it does look like the view through mine.

There seems to be some idea that this was just a batch of dodgy ones so presumably Leica could tell by the serial numbers ?

Mine is 2273083 any idea what yours is John ?

Dave

[John]

Mine is 2271346.

 

[Piero]

I haven't gone through all the comments in the links added by John, but I also asked about this issue on the Leica on CN time ago. Here is another photo of this lubricant / dust accumulating on an internal lens: 

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/542372-review-zeiss-20-75x-zoom-eyepiece-and-swarovski-25-50x-zoom-eyepiece/page-3#entry7522171  

[Davey-T]

11 minutes ago, John said:

Mine is 2271346.

 

Sounds close to mine, I wonder if Leica know the affected numbers, perhaps they could do a product recall

Dave

[John]

14 minutes ago, Piero said:

I haven't gone through all the comments in the links added by John, but I also asked about this issue on the Leica on CN time ago. Here is another photo of this lubricant / dust accumulating on an internal lens: 

https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/542372-review-zeiss-20-75x-zoom-eyepiece-and-swarovski-25-50x-zoom-eyepiece/page-3#entry7522171  

Your explanation why you bought the Zeiss makes even more sense now !

I was vaguely aware of this potential issue before I bought my zoom and I asked to see photos of the eye and field lenses from different angles before I comitted. Nothing was showing in the photos and the previous owner was (I think genuinely) unaware. Using the lens on the night sky (stars, Saturn, DSO's) showed no signs of this issue either. My lens is in unmarked and mint condition. If Leica sort it out I'll be very pleased with it 

For those interested, here is a link to more about Leica's Portugese manufacturing plant where my zoom and many other optics are made:

http://www.fdtimes.com/2017/02/22/leica-portugal-tour/

 

[Piero]

9 minutes ago, John said:

Your explanation why you bought the Zeiss makes even more sense now !

I was vaguely aware of this potential issue before I bought my zoom and I asked to see photos of the eye and field lenses from different angles before I comitted. Nothing was showing in the photos and the previous owner was (I think genuinely) unaware. Using the lens on the night sky (stars, Saturn, DSO's) showed no signs of this issue either. My lens is in unmarked and mint condition. If Leica sort it out I'll be very pleased with it 

For those interested, here is a link to more about Leica's Portugese manufacturing plant where my zoom and many other optics are made:

http://www.fdtimes.com/2017/02/22/leica-portugal-tour/

Choosing between the Zeiss and the Leica took me a rather long time. Both are not cheap and, at least for me, require a (very) deep thought! Both have advantages and disadvantages often depending on tastes. Apart from these quality control issues, which of course can be annoying, I believe that above a certain level, it is more down to preference in specs. I've never looked through a Leica zoom, so I cannot comment on this. For my use and taste, I prefer the specs of the Zeiss zoom a bit more and the views are remarkably fine to my eye. Looking forward to trying it with the Tak.

Interesting PDF document in the link you posted. I knew that there was a plant in Portugal, but was not aware it was so large.   I think that once it is cleaned and fixed, this issue won't come back again, and you will be able to enjoy this zoom for many years. They are well aware of the problem and how to deal with it.

 

Not sure if this is the same Leica issue as discussed here, maybe Yong can add more info: 

 

[John]

Interesting that Yong's went to Germany. I believe some were made there but since a certain date, all have been made in Portugal.

Sounds like their returns service was good then and still seems responsive (so far) now.

I suspect it's going to take a few weeks to be resolved though so I'm just going to have to cope with my other eyepieces for a while

It's a chance to use the VIP barlow with some other eyepieces as well so that should be interesting

[Piero]

It would be interesting to know how you find your 10mm XW plus VIP 2x vs 5mm XW.

[Highburymark]

21 hours ago, John said:

Mine is 2271346.

 

Sorry to hear about this problem with your Leicas John and Dave. For reference, mine is 2273112, which is very close to yours Dave, but I haven't noticed any similar spots myself. That doesn't mean it won't be a problem in the future of course. Hope you both get things sorted. Keep us updated.

[John]

1 hour ago, Highburymark said:

Sorry to hear about this problem with your Leicas John and Dave. For reference, mine is 2273112, which is very close to yours Dave, but I haven't noticed any similar spots myself. That doesn't mean it won't be a problem in the future of course. Hope you both get things sorted. Keep us updated.

Thanks Mark

The more I read about this issue, the more I feel that it is something that crops up sometime in the life of the eyepieces and as such could not be picked up by quality control during manufacturer. Debris / oil droplets from some aspect of the zoom mechansim seems to be the favourite likely cause with owners but Leica themselves have not commented on it. They do seem to have a good track record of sorting it out though, which is encouraging.

When I hear back from Leica I will be asking questions about the longevity of any solution they propose. I don't want a re-occurance in another couple of years time when the eyepiece is out of warranty.