I want a visual reflector

[Hobbes]

I have used an Orion Optics VX10" Newt on a Skywatcher AZ EQ6 for  the last 3 years and its a very nice combination.

[John]

Nice scope above !

If you ordered one of the high optical spec Orion Optics 10" optical assemblies, especially perhaps the F/6.3 version, I think it would perform at least as well as the Celestron C9.25 as an all-round visual instrument. The cost of the Orion Optics OTA would be just under £1K I think which is a bit less than the C9.25 OTA costs.

The well known UK astronomer Martin Mobberly used such an instrument:

[TareqPhoto]

I mentioned that someone in another forum recommended or suggested me another scope that i was looking at first, and that is the Maksut scope, he mentioned Orion 150mm and SW 180mm, i only looked at 150mm and 180mm but i wanted to go with 180mm only, it has bigger magnification or longer focal length, more than C9.25, but i felt many are only prefer SCT or Newt or Dob over the Mak scopes, so that i forgot about it, last month i was planning for 180mm as future choice, so that i asked a question here and there about reflector, and only him mentioned a Mak, so i think i will go back to that choice then, i think it will be more than enough giving me higher magnification than C9.25 and i won't look further, unless other members warning me about Mak, i know about the long time temp control, this is not an issue for me, i can wait or do something about it, but if any other issues i hope to know before i get a Mak then.

[TareqPhoto]

So finally i got the budget and hopefully tomorrow i go to charge my card, until now the decision is on that SW 180mm Mak, is there anything i need to know about before i place an order on this Mak? anything else to get with that Mak so i don't need to wait again to get something to use with 180mm Mak?

I included a collimator in the order list, is the collimator needed for a Mak or is it better for SCT?

The eyepieces i will buy later in the future in a slow mode, for now my budget will be wasted for that scope for visual and next month i hope for a mono camera, eyepieces can wait or come later, i may buy one or two if i get good aside budget somewhere, but i don't know what else you need for a MCT.

[N3ptune]

I learned a few things about Schmidt-Cassegrain, Maksutov-Cassegrain, Schmidt-Newtonian and Maksutov-Newtonian on the following website. You probably read the same things but these are interesting. 

Maksutov-Cassegrain  https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_telescopes_makcass.aspx

Schmidt-Cassegrain  https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_telescopes_scts.aspx

Schmidt or Maksutov - Newtonians  https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_telescopes_schmidtnewt.aspx

 

 

[TareqPhoto]

51 minutes ago, N3ptune said:

I learned a few things about Schmidt-Cassegrain, Maksutov-Cassegrain, Schmidt-Newtonian and Maksutov-Newtonian on the following website. You probably read the same things but these are interesting. 

Maksutov-Cassegrain  https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_telescopes_makcass.aspx

Schmidt-Cassegrain  https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_telescopes_scts.aspx

Schmidt or Maksutov - Newtonians  https://starizona.com/acb/basics/equip_telescopes_schmidtnewt.aspx

 

 

Thank you very much for those great links, learnt a lot, but i still feel it didn't give direct answer.

I want t buy that scope for planetary visual only, so that i decided on the Mak, but SCT sounds the winner here over the three types, but i am not planning to do DSO imaging, and also the Mak is cheaper for a focal length of the expensive SCT ones, i want one for larger planetary visual so DSO is definitely out of equation, i am buying an APO triplet refractor later for DSO anyway.

[Dave In Vermont]

Maks very rarely need need any collimation. These little scopes are amazingly tough. They were used by the Soviet Union's Red Army in World War II in their tanks in tank-battles against the German Wermacht - the tanks might get blown-up, but the Maksutovs were still going strong! Well.....Pretty close! I managed to drop my 150mm SW Mak - no problem with the collimation. Put a dent in my floor though.

You'll be amazed with your 180mm. Everyone I know who has a Mak - of any aperture - loves them. Rave-reviews!

Please post a 'First Light' on yours, Tareq!

Enjoy!

Dave

[TareqPhoto]

12 minutes ago, Dave In Vermont said:

Maks very rarely need need any collimation. These little scopes are amazingly tough. They were used by the Soviet Union's Red Army in World War II in their tanks in tank-battles against the German Wermacht - the tanks might get blown-up, but the Maksutovs were still going strong! Well.....Pretty close! I managed to drop my 150mm SW Mak - no problem with the collimation. Put a dent in my floor though.

You'll be amazed with your 180mm. Everyone I know who has a Mak - of any aperture - loves them. Rave-reviews!

Please post a 'First Light' on yours, Tareq!

Enjoy!

Dave

So it is like you are blessing me buying that 180mm Mak?

It is new day now already, in about 3 hours after i drop my wife at work i will go to fill my card to order, so the scope is in the list, should i remove the collimator? it is not a big deal to keep it or remove, but i don't want to regret getting it and end up not using it, i do read it is more used for Newt or SCT i think, but i am not sure if the collimator is needed for all Cass scopes anyway, so is it needed or just optional? if optional i can buy it later, if needed then i must get it with the scope then.

[Dave In Vermont]

It depends on your psyche and how it functions. If you know you will be constantly worried, without the collimator, that your scope might be better if only...if only... Then get the collimator for your psyche's health (and the rest of you, too)  

I have a few laser's I've used to collimate SCT's with. Which is very simple - compared to Newtonians. I think it's universal that the first time you collimate a Newt - you nearly jump out of your shoes! These days - I actually enjoy it!

In the last (and financial) analysis: I'd go ahead and get the collimator of your dreams now. You'll need it someday. And as the clock ticks by, the price is very likely to rise.

Here's a good guide to collimation of a SCT and Mak (a few variations are needed for a Mak - ask if it needs collimation):

Collimating Your SCT -by Rod Mollise.pdf

And here's what is widely thought to be one of the best guides for Newtonians, by member Astro_Baby:

Astro Baby's Collimation Guide.pdf

As a dedicated local Solar-System scope, a Maksutov is an excellent choice - in my view. It's why I bought my SW 150mm Mak. And I'm very happy with it. I also have an SCT - Meade 12" LX90. It does very well on planets andother local denizens of our Solar-System. But the Mak is ideal for these. The view is more sharp and narrow - often annoying on other objects - which works perfectly for the planets, comets, and such animals as globular-clusters. I reserve the LX90 for hunting down DSO's that are dimmer and wider - extended nebulae and the like. But whatever you decide should work great!

Enjoy!

Dave

[TareqPhoto]

An update or news:

I made a mistake and pulled the trigger and ordered that 180mm Mak with the collimator, what did i do? Oh my!!!

[N3ptune]

Good!  I am sure you'll like it.

Has I read, it should give you quality and well corrected views thanks to the Maksutov lens.

Congratulations!

[TareqPhoto]

A new very very sad news:

FLO just emailed me that the items are out of stock and it will be available most likely at the end of next month, that is insane, so i just ask them to cancel the order as they mentioned and refund me.

So now i have only one decision to do, to buy a mono astro camera in the wish list, i know it is a bit more expensive, but i have no another choice, the scope will be later then, not sure if i will be happy with the astro camera but i started in astronomy forums mainly for AP not visual, and wanted to give visual a start because cheaper.

Thank you very much and i apologize for this so exciting rush news.

[N3ptune]

They say it's good to have a few years of visual observation before you start investing in AP, to prevent a serious waste of money. The only way to know if it's good move to invest in something expensive is to get out and do visual, to see if the passion is living between you and the sky. 

To learn about the different weather conditions, the seeing, the transparency, the wind, the insects, the cold, the heat, the collimation, polar alignment and GEM, comparing filters, different magnification, understanding light pollution, etc. I would definitely get a scope and do Visual before I buy a mono camera.

=============

ATTEMPT: Why not look for another scope at FLO's, maybe they have a great deal on something else that could very well do the job for far less then the Maksutov-Cassegrain. One time I ordered a Lumicon UHC at my local store and they never gave me news about it, I am STILL waiting.

--> I became upset about it and dedicated efforts to find something else which was a far better deal, I could not be happier now then with a pair of NPB filters instead. I also didn't get a Lumicon from the wrong batch.

[TareqPhoto]

I think i will go in my journey as i planned, 2 scopes, one for visual and one for AP, and an astro mono camera, so that visual scope is out of stock now, i don't think i have another choice, not a cheaper choice anyway, so i won't waste the money on another choice i am not sure about, so by default the astro camera or an APO triplet scope is the natural next choice, in fact i was planning to get the camera this month before the scopes, but i was trying to save little by going with visual scope to have fun a bit in summer, but it won't change my plan if i get the camera first anyway, i can buy the scope next month when it will be available.

[Joeistotalycool]

A sct would be much better for viewing planets because it has such a high focal length.

[Dave In Vermont]

I would say that a MCT (Maksutov Cassegrain Telescope) would be better for a diet of planets and other local solar-system objects, as I stated earlier, Joe.

This as the Maks have a more narrow FOV (Field Of View) which allows greater contrast on the target. The vew from a Mak has been favorably compared to that of an APO-refractor for planetary work. At less price-per-inch of aperture. Such is why I recently (1½ years) pulled-the-trigger on a 150mm F/12 Maksutov as a dedicated solar-system scope. And am quite pleased with the results.

Hope this serves to clarify, Joe. Perhaps a trip to a 'Star-Party' would help you to see for yourself? Always fun anyways!

Enjoy,

Dave

 

 

 

[TareqPhoto]

As I said, the visual scope will be delayed until I can recover and have budget again and the scope itself is in stock, mostly likely I will try by September, almost at the end of summer or humidity so the clarity visual or transparency is better.

I am afraid or worried that once I get the scope then I feel I want a camera for imaging the planets too, I hope my mono camera will do the job better than my ASI120mc.

[swamp thing]

On 7/17/2017 at 02:32, Dave In Vermont said:

 They were used by the Soviet Union's Red Army in World War II in their tanks in tank-battles against the German Wermacht - 

Dave

As far as I am aware. Tank commanders of WWII mainly used periscopes and vision slits with only the gunner having access to a telescopic sight. I believe that the soviet T34 was somewhat different with the commander having access to the main telescopic sight......

That said , the soviet T34 (mainstay of the red armies tank divisions during WWII ) used a TMFD-7 optical gunsight. this is not a Maksutov telescope. 

The later IS series of tanks didn't use Maksutov telescopes either as far as I know............ 

Perhaps your "studies" reveal otherwise?  

But I digress from the point of this thread, my apologies  

 

 

 

[Dave In Vermont]

The place I learned that is another member of SGL - who published it somewhere over there.

Below is a photo from after WWII concluded:

 

 

Looks like a tough old bird. I'd love to find that in someone's Yard Sale where I live.

Pretty cool, eh?

Dave

[Erla]

Mhm, interesting discussion. Maksutovs paper Новые катадиоптрические менисковые системы" outlining the design was published in 1944. I find it very hard to believe that in Leningrad's Institute of Optics anyone could do anything not connected to the military use and not be shot for sabotage by Stalin at that particular time. It was all hands to war effort. The siege of the city itself was lifted in 1944. 

I just dusted off my Russian language skills a bit and downloaded the paper itself. Can't see a term "telescope" or "astronomy". Optical systems. If you ask me, I find the use in tanks very plausible. It's a correct image piece, isn't it? Compact. Further investigation needed, of course.

[Erla]

"Consensus: the gun sights are the best in the world. Incomparable to any currently known worldwide or currently developed in America". This comes from USA military evaluation of T-34, apparently USSR sent one during the war to then allies. They didn't like much else about it, though. This would suggest something out of the ordinary. I'll try to find old T-34 manual. Maybe we'll get to the bottom of it.

* apologies  to OP for going off topic.

[swamp thing]

Okay time to put this to bed.......

As I already said the T34 was originally made with the TMFD-7 telescopic sight (not a maksutov cassagrain) 

Later versions of the tank were not fitted with a maksutov cassagrain either........

If you look Here half way down the page is an image of inside the turret of the later T-34 85. This was a later up gunned variant of the tank and you can clearly see the main gun sight as a long optical tube alongside of the main gun. There is no Maksutov cassagrain in sight.  

Now lets get back to astronomy  

[TareqPhoto]

I won't buy a historical scope anyway, so i hope to get a scope that i look for or at least one that will make me happy.

[Erla]

Original t34 had different optics them later versions (post 1943) and t34/85. I think it was tsh15 and tsh185. There were other versions too. But we are hijacking the thread. Btw, you may be right. I can't find anything with reference to maksutov on any sights from the era.