Synscan V3 ?

[ronin]

Put this in Mounts as it (I think) relates to the Mount rather then the Software.

Debating a new mount with a few extra bells and whistles - goto. Want something that does not pull the few muscles I have left. So was looking at the EQ5.

Everything says V3. Why are they not V4 these days?

What seperates V3 from V4, it would sort of make sense to migrate to V4.

Do retailers sell the EQ5 Synscan with the lastest version of software already installed? Seems to be that you buy a new mount and then are expected to go forth and get the latest firmware and do it yourself.  Just seems an odd way to sell a new item. Cannot think where else this occurs.

Not overly keen, in honesty, on Skywatcher, but iOptron seems to have gone very quiet and not sure about the EXOS range.

 

[jambouk]

There are two handsets, the old one, and the new one. The new one comes with v4 firmware, the old one will only take v3 firmware as far as I'm aware. I suspect they are just trying to get rid of old handsets so that means you get v3 firmware.

James

[stash_old]

I think I am right but V4 does NOT have a 12v power supply point so to upgrade firmware you need to connect to the mount which is a pain IMHO. Firmware by its very nature is not up todate in hardware as there is a time delay between manufacture of the hand set (when the initial firmware is installed) and firmware development. James point is also true. You could go handset free and use Ascom/EQMOD

[jambouk]

I suspect if you contacted various retailers and asked for the v4 handset one of them may oblige, maybe for no cost, maybe for minimal cost. I'm unsure what the difference is in the handsets; again I am under the impression the actual functionality of the latest v3 firmware and the latest v4 firmware are the same.

James

 

[Oddsocks]

57 minutes ago, ronin said:

What seperates V3 from V4

Change from v3 to v4 handsets partly due to end of supply for some components used in the v3 handset and the need to support the new mount version EQ6 Pro

Otherwise, both v3 and v4 contain the same database of 42,000 objects, the same navigation structure in the handset the same menus and all the same functions with the exceptions that the v3 reports temperature (of the handset) in the utilities menu where v4 does not and v4 offers you the option to manually program your own star names in the database.

v3 can be updated free of the mount, just needs power and serial connection, v4 can only be updated when connected to the mount as it has no power input other the mount connection.

Firmware updates are required when new functions are requested by end users or bugs are found. Most recent firmware update was to allow solar tracking rate to be enabled from utilities without first star alignment or startup from a known home position when used with an Alt-Az mount, for EQ mounts this function is not required and has no purpose.

Low sales volume mounts will still be on the shelves with v3 handsets but for the end user this is no real disadvantage. High sales volume and new mounts such as the EQ6 Pro will ship with the v4 handset.

Lastly of course, just because the retailers sales blurb for the mount you choose says v3 doesn't mean the mount won't actually turn up with a v4 handset, I've noticed many online retailers seem very reluctant to update their product descriptions once the web pages have been created....

Can't think of anything else in this price range that offers the same features.

 

[ronin]

None of the above fills me with confidence, trepidation perhaps but not confidence.

Iin the worst terms possible, I can half expect a handset that has obsolete components and is in that sense out of date, and firmware/software that requires immediate update. Anyone bought a mobile recently where you have to first get a PC, cable and custom software to actually have the latest operating system on it? Buy your Windows10 touch screen mobile, supplied with Win98 that doesn't actually support the touch screen, for that you need to dowload the Win10 updater, connect with the custom PC to mobile cable then connect to the Mobile Support site in order to get the Win 10 software you were expecting in the first place. And to add to the tension the download may fail miserably and of course the PC uses USB and the download assumes old 19.2K serial. And all this on a "New" out of the box mount. Also it seems that my zodicacial sign needs to be on the ascendency in order for an update to have a 50/50 chance of success. In this sense I suspect that Astronomy and Astrology are related.

Considering I have worked in real time software for 35+ years and have even designed bootloaders to update software and have updated software to systems half the globe away this just seems amateurish.

My tablet is about to update 12 new features, that will get done without any intervention from me and will I 100% am sure be done with no problem at all. This has occurred on it about twice a week for the last 3 years.

Going to have to sit and think this over again, but less inclined to Skywatcher then before I asked. Better go and investigate the latest on the iOptron CEM25's and also look at the EXOS offerings. Suspect that in 6 months I will not have progressed, have been quietly watching the situation with mounts for a while, but recently decided I really do need a reasonable goto equitorial. I do not mind having the present/latest hardware and firmware then simply living with that for the next 5 years but to to not even start out with the "new" hardware and firmware at this time on a new item seems pointless.

[jambouk]

If you buy from FLO they will flash the handset for you, if you want, with the latest firmware before sending it out. Other retailers may also do this.

I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill personally

Nothing will change in the next 5 years so if you want a mount it is a case of put up with what Skywatcher have on offer, or look elsewhere.

Good luck.

James

 

[Darren Hill]

If you have your heart set on the V4 handset - your choice is the AZ-EQ5, AZ-EQ6, EQ-6R. The hand-controller V4 would be compatible with those mounts, it is not compatible with mounts using the V3 controller. I looked into upgrading the HC on my EQ6 and found this information on the Skywatcher site. Can't find the link now.

The functionality is virtually the same, and as Oddsocks has correctly stated - this upgrade was really forced by new components used in the manufacture of the new mount.

The V3 controller is well proven, along with all it's mounts. It would be a good choice and work for years to come.

 

[Merlin66]

2 hours ago, Darren Hill said:

your choice is the AZ-EQ5, AZ-EQ6, EQ-6R. The hand-controller V4 would be compatible with those mounts, it is not compatible with mounts using the V3 controller

Hmmm this does match the Synscan V4 manual - https://storage.googleapis.com/skywatcher-canada/downloads/Synscan_V4_Hand_Control_Manual_SSHCV4-F-161208V1-EN.pdf

[jambouk]

Interestingly in the v4 manual they describe the method of updating the firmware in the same way as for the older style handset, not through the mount. Good to see that Skywatcher's attention to detail in the manual is as good as elsewhere

James

 

[ronin]

3 hours ago, Darren Hill said:

If you have your heart set on the V4 handset - your choice is the AZ-EQ5, AZ-EQ6, EQ-6R. The hand-controller V4 would be compatible with those mounts, it is not compatible with mounts using the V3 controller. I looked into upgrading the HC on my EQ6 and found this information on the Skywatcher site. Can't find the link now.

The functionality is virtually the same, and as Oddsocks has correctly stated - this upgrade was really forced by new components used in the manufacture of the new mount.

The V3 controller is well proven, along with all it's mounts. It would be a good choice and work for years to come.

 

Actually heart was not set on V3 or V4. It looked like the V3 was still supplied with new kit and I was curious why since the V4's have been around for some time. I would have simply expected that they had migrated to V4's only being supplied with new equipment by now, presuming they were 100% cros compatibility.

My initial thoughts was were maybe they on the AZ-EQ mounts because of the ability of them to operate in both EQ and AZ mode - suppose it might be so. Basically wanted to get an idea of the situation. An AZ-EQ5 is an option as I have not heard so many tales of problems with them - TS sell the AZ-EQ5 head unit alone so I could drop one on either Skywatcher tripods I have and save some money by doing that. And have less lumps of metal to kick.

When reading the mount descriptions for the size I was contemplating they all generally mentioned the V3 handset and supplied with cable or whatever in order to do the firmware update and then it became apparent that you basically had to do the update in order to have the latest firmware.

As said the previous was a "worst case" = old hardware and old software supplied with new equipment.  Just in electronics it is seemingly normal that the new equipment is supplied fully up to date. And a Synscan EQ5 etc are electronic equipment  Half the time you can get a discount if the item is last years colour. Before anyone comments on colour being totally irrelevant there are wanted ads stating the colour (black/white) of the tripod and mount required since one is newer then the other.

As said will carry on looking as not really at ease with it all. But mounts have never seemed a straight forward purchase here, always seems to be a case of making the least worst choice. Next big show is Stoneleigh I think.

 

[Cornelius Varley]

42 minutes ago, jambouk said:

Interestingly in the v4 manual they describe the method of updating the firmware in the same way as for the older style handset, not through the mount. Good to see that Skywatcher's attention to detail in the manual is as good as elsewhere

James

 

Not correct. The v4 manual states that the handset is connected to the pc and mount and keys 0 and 8 are pressed simultaneously, then the mount is switched on putting the handset into firmware update mode. The handset is still updated through the handset, the handset is powered through the mount.

[jambouk]

Well spotted.

[Geoff Lister]

Having started my electronics career in the Post Design Engineering department of the British Aircraft Corporation, I know that component obsolescence is always going to be a problem with any electronic equipment. It was one of the main reasons why Concorde was withdrawn from service. There were plenty of "better" components available, but they were not drop-in replacements, and the cost of re-design and re-qualification could not have been justified for a handful of operational aircraft.

I have 2  ALT/AZ scopes using Synscan V3 and they work fine. It would be nice to have a built-in Real Time Clock chip, so that I do not have to update the date, daily; and the time at each power cycle, but would V4 do that for me? The Celestron handset, supplied with the Skyprodigy mount has the RTC, in a physically-similar case.

My first "PC" a Commodore PET, with its 1MHz clocked 8-bit 6502, 8kB RAM & 14kB ROM was up and running BASIC a lot faster than I can get my 2.3GHz i5 Pentium with 6GB RAM running a desktop on W7. The requirements for a GOTO telescope mount are not much more complex than a few hundred lines of BASIC and perhaps 1MB of ROM to store the star database.

Obviously, the V4 will have a longer useful, supported, life than the V3, and, it is quite likely that future Skywatcher mounts, as yet not released, will be designed to be incompatible with the V3's electrical/signal interface.

[Yearofthegoat]

Not sure if the above posts were mistyped re. choice of mounts with v4 handsets but my HEQ5 came with a v4 handset and that was over 2 years ago.

It was drop shipped from OVL. Maybe some sort of shortage then?

[Yearofthegoat]

12 hours ago, Darren Hill said:

If you have your heart set on the V4 handset - your choice is the AZ-EQ5, AZ-EQ6, EQ-6R. The hand-controller V4 would be compatible with those mounts, it is not compatible with mounts using the V3 controller.

 

I'm pretty sure that's not correct. The HEQ5 Pro is, I believe, compatible with both v3 and v4 handsets. Mine has a v4 but it's currently being advertised for sale with v3 and I'm almost certain there are SGLers using v3 sets with it.

I've emailed OVL to find out what they ship with their HEQ5s. Will post back their response.

[Darren Hill]

46 minutes ago, Yearofthegoat said:

I'm pretty sure that's not correct. The HEQ5 Pro is, I believe, compatible with both v3 and v4 handsets. Mine has a v4 but it's currently being advertised for sale with v3 and I'm almost certain there are SGLers using v3 sets with it.

I've emailed OVL to find out what they ship with their HEQ5s. Will post back their response.

Sorry, yes you are correct - since the EQ3 & 5 have the interface box, that would be compatible. My EQ6 Pro, having the DB9 connector isn't.

[Cornelius Varley]

54 minutes ago, Darren Hill said:

Sorry, yes you are correct - since the EQ3 & 5 have the interface box, that would be compatible. My EQ6 Pro, having the DB9 connector isn't.

Your mount would still be compatible with the v4 handset.

[Merlin66]

6 hours ago, Darren Hill said:

since the EQ3 & 5 have the interface box, that would be compatible. My EQ6 Pro, having the DB9 connector isn'

Darren,

Hmmmm what's the interface box you're talking about??? The Syscan plugs directly into the mount .......

What am I missing?????

[Cosmic Geoff]

I have some sympathy with the posters who think that the Synscan firmware upgrade arrangements are a bit of a joke. I have contended with the upgrades for Nexstars, requiring cables, serial to USB converter, and sundry bits of auxiliary firmware. (BTW, the Nexstar handsets have to be powered via the mount for an upgrade.) By contrast, my Nexus 7 tablet updates itself without intervention, as do my PCs (once I have set them up for auto updates).

On the other hand, there is the old adge "If it's not broken, don't try to fix it." If the kit works, leave well alone. Unless a prospective update fixes an issue that affects you or your kit, there is no need to apply it. It is possible to ascertain the firmware versions installed and what the updates actually do.  There is a small but finite risk of an update going wrong and turning your updateable component into a lump of dead plastic.

[Yearofthegoat]

11 hours ago, Merlin66 said:

Darren,

Hmmmm what's the interface box you're talking about??? The Syscan plugs directly into the mount .......

What am I missing?????

Nothing, I don't think there is an 'interface box' for your mount, just an 8-way network cable with RJ45 plugs each end.

No response from OVL as yet. I did notice that their website (as was mentioned on here earlier) shows what appears to be a V3 handset on the V4 product page. Which is not helpful. Unless they've changed the shape of the V4...!

[Cornelius Varley]

11 hours ago, Merlin66 said:

Darren,

Hmmmm what's the interface box you're talking about??? The Syscan plugs directly into the mount .......

What am I missing?????

The "interface box" on the EQ3 and EQ5 Pro contains the mother control board which is installed internally in the other mounts.

[Darren Hill]

I was referring to this difference where the control board is basically external.  I was misinformed anyhow, and it looks like in fact you CAN upgrade older V3 sets to the new version. I'm happy it's an option - as I was all giddy when they came out, and then disappointed when I went to a dealers site and they had that disclaimer. Perhaps it was correct at the time, and they've added Firmware..

Anyhow, I was talking out of my Bottom - so go back to getting the V4 everyone!

[Yearofthegoat]

I promised to post back the response from OVL and, well, they haven't yet. I'm not holding my breath.