ES 82 vs Nagler

[GavStar]

Hi,

Im considering the ES as an alternative to the Nagler for binoviewing. I tried a Nagler 11 in my binoviewer - it was very nice but the eye relief was just a little too short for me. Looking at the specs the ES 82 has 15.5 mm eye relief compared to the Nagler 12mm eye relief. I use the pan 24 which has 15mm and find its eye relief fine. 

Does the ES really have over 15mm of eye relief or is it more like the 12mm of the Nagler? 

Thanks

Gavin

[Ruud]

This is the op of an ES 11mm 82°:

 

as you can see, the glass of the eye lens lies a few mm under the rubber of the eyecup. Thus, a few millimetres of eye relief are lost. For  me, the remaining eye relief of this eyepiece was too short. My eyelashes constantly brushed against the rubber.

So whether the eye relief of this eyepiece is long enough depends on how long your eyelashes are. 

The Nagler may have more effective eye relief than the ES. I didn't try. I returned the ES11 and got a Delos 12mm instead. Lots of eye relief on that one.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

ExSc 82 deg range gives you 15mm ER on 11mm and 14mm eye pieces and 14mm eye relief on 8,8 ;6.7. ( tested my self)

I use pairs of Ex Sc 82 deg 8,8mm ;11mm and 14mm in my binoviewers and found them to be perfectly fine.They are far more compact then TV Delos and 82 degrees are superb in binoviewers   no merging issues in any focal length and NO FIELD CURVATURE in 14mm ExSC 82 degree!(used F9 refractor)

I had the opportunity to test a number of bino pairs recently: APM flat fields,APM HDC 100 deg, ExSc 82 degree and had a loaned pair of TV Naglers,Delos and singles of Ethos.Was comparing them against my old trusty Meade RG orthos and wide fields. 

APM flats where great but i didnt like 18mm as they where a bit too big for my IPD.Performance wise they are superb.APM HDC was too much power for bino but in mono mode gave nothing up to Ethos. Delos where too bulky despite excelent ER and views but i struggled with IPD and as such i sometimes couldnt merge image properly,Naglers where outstanding but they cost rendered them as no go.Lastly ExSc pairs where matching Naglers in binoviewers in every aspect,with actually slightly better eye relief,but also current price  being 97 quid a piece made them very attractive.After several test sessions i liked ExSc so much that as a result i sold my meade RG collection and placed an order for pairs of ExSC 82 degree 8,8;11 and 14 and a pair of ExSc 24mm 68 degree.And i am quite picky on eye pieces for they performance.Final bill for the lot of ExSc of  4 pairs was arround 700 quid(bought NEW),where if i would off gone for TV Nagler it would off been £1500 as a minimum.

Note: I binoview 100% of my observation time,unless i am testing an eye piece and i have to do it in mono mode.

I would highly recommend ExSc 82 degree for bino viewers or as single eye pieces.

[John]

Eye relief (as in the specifications) is measured from the centre of the top surface of the eye lens. So if the eye lens is recessed below the eyepiece top you lose a little useable eye relief, if the eye lens is concave, you loose a little ER. If the eye lens is concave and recessed ......

The Naglers eye lens is slightly concave but not recessed as much as the ES 82's is. The Nagler has a rather inflexible rubber eye cup which does not help access the eye relief.

 

 

[Louis D]

2 hours ago, Dude_with_the_tube said:

ExSc 82 deg range gives you 15mm ER on 11mm and 14mm eye pieces and 14mm eye relief on 8,8 ;6.7. ( tested my self)

Usable eye relief, measured from the top of the folded down eyecup?  I've found that the Delos actually have 18mm of usable eye relief while the Pentax XWs have 16mm to 17mm due to the recessed eye lens and/or rubber eyecup sticking up slightly.  How did you measure the eye relief?  I projected a flashlight backwards through the eyepiece onto card stock and found the point where the exiting bundle of light was at its smallest.  I then measured from the highest point on the top of the eyepiece with everything pushed down as far as possible without removing anything to the card stock.

[TheLookingGlass]

On 1/23/2017 at 05:36, Ruud said:

This is the op of an ES 11mm 82°:

 

as you can see, the glass of the eye lens lies a few mm under the rubber of the eyecup. Thus, a few millimetres of eye relief are lost. For  me, the remaining eye relief of this eyepiece was too short. My eyelashes constantly brushed against the rubber.

So whether the eye relief of this eyepiece is long enough depends on how long your eyelashes are. 

The Nagler may have more effective eye relief than the ES. I didn't try. I returned the ES11 and got a Delos 12mm instead. Lots of eye relief on that one.

+1 on the Delos. A lot better on eye relief and comfort. The Delos are excellent IMO.

[jetstream]

On 2017-01-23 at 01:55, Gavster said:

Hi,

Im considering the ES as an alternative to the Nagler for binoviewing. I tried a Nagler 11 in my binoviewer - it was very nice but the eye relief was just a little too short for me. Looking at the specs the ES 82 has 15.5 mm eye relief compared to the Nagler 12mm eye relief. I use the pan 24 which has 15mm and find its eye relief fine. 

Does the ES really have over 15mm of eye relief or is it more like the 12mm of the Nagler? 

Thanks

Gavin

Hi Gavin, as said the ES eyelens is recessed, this has caused people issues in mono before to the point that they sold them. I find no issues in mono, but I'm not sure they would be my first choice with the binoviewers.

The Powerswitch which I use is a good solution for me as I can run nice eyerelief eyepieces-like the 32mm, 25mm TV plossl and still get up to an 11mm focal length equivalent. Highly recommended but I'm not sure if they will fit anything but Denk viewers.

I just decloaked my 10mm/7mm Luminos for the grand kids- something like these ( Nagler clones) just might work pretty good.

 

[GavStar]

Ok thank you. ES 82 are struck off the list. I've ordered an alternative pair of eyepieces which I will report back in due course (they are new to the market)

[jetstream]

50 minutes ago, Gavster said:

Ok thank you. ES 82 are struck off the list. I've ordered an alternative pair of eyepieces which I will report back in due course (they are new to the market)

Gavin, if I may ask, which eyepieces did you order? Good call on the ES...MHO.

[GavStar]

I've ordered the new 14mm ES 62degree long eye relief eyepieces which have just become available to order from Germany. The specs haven't been published yet! However they look nice and slim, hopefully have good eye relief of at least 16mm, and are apparently designed by the same person who did the ES 92 line of eyepieces (which I think are excellent if a bit heavy..). 

[jetstream]

Excellent choice Gavin!

I have to say that I really do like ES eyepieces, despite owning other high quality glass. I'm very interested in your findings...

Eagerly waiting your report!

[Ruud]

33 minutes ago, Gavster said:

I've ordered the new 14mm ES 62degree long eye relief

Wow, Gav, we shall be very interested to hear everything about this eyepiece!

[YKSE]

2 hours ago, Gavster said:

I've ordered the new 14mm ES 62degree long eye relief eyepieces which have just become available to order from Germany. The specs haven't been published yet! However they look nice and slim, hopefully have good eye relief of at least 16mm, and are apparently designed by the same person who did the ES 92 line of eyepieces (which I think are excellent if a bit heavy..). 

Let's hope the 11mm ER published here is just a typo

http://www.explorescientific.de/Okulare/62-LER-Okular-14mm-Ar.html

Looking forward to your impression.

[GavStar]

40 minutes ago, YKSE said:

Let's hope the 11mm ER published here is just a typo

http://www.explorescientific.de/Okulare/62-LER-Okular-14mm-Ar.html

Looking forward to your impression.

Yes, if the eye relief is only 11mm they are going straight back. I'm also hoping the picture in the link is completely wrong since all the other photos I've seen of them (the 5.5mm, 9mm, and 20mm) have a bulge indicating a new type of design. I will find out next week. The roll out of these eyepieces has been extremely drawn out as shown by the long thread over on cloudynights!

[GavStar]

Disappointingly eye relief is short 11mm does feel about right. Very surprised that ES are describing these eyepieces as long eye relief - I don't think 11mm is long...

[Louis D]

7 hours ago, Gavster said:

Disappointingly eye relief is short 11mm does feel about right. Very surprised that ES are describing these eyepieces as long eye relief - I don't think 11mm is long...

My Speers-Waler 5-8mm zoom has 7mm to 9mm of eye relief depending on the focal length, and yet the name Waler is a contraction of Wide angle long eye relief!  Just goes to prove that there is no accepted definition of long eye relief.

[Ricochet]

How do the ES62s perform aside from the not--so-long eye relief? 

[Ruud]

Thank you Gavin. It's a shame about the usable eye relief. The 62° - like the 82° - seems to lose a few mm due to a recessed eye lens:

With only 11 mm to start with you have little to spare! I hope JOC will soon improve their eye guard design.

How were your other findings?

[Dude_with_the_tube]

[SteveMcHarg]

What about the Celestron luminous ? Sorry I posted a similar thread ;-)

[Louis D]

On 1/23/2017 at 01:55, Gavster said:

Hi,

Im considering the ES as an alternative to the Nagler for binoviewing. I tried a Nagler 11 in my binoviewer - it was very nice but the eye relief was just a little too short for me. Looking at the specs the ES 82 has 15.5 mm eye relief compared to the Nagler 12mm eye relief. I use the pan 24 which has 15mm and find its eye relief fine. 

Does the ES really have over 15mm of eye relief or is it more like the 12mm of the Nagler? 

Thanks

Gavin

I just had a thought.  You could try a 12mm Nagler T4 pair in your binoviewer.  I tried mine on one side of my Arcturus binoviewer.  There's plenty of eye relief (15mm from the top of the folded down eyecup, more if you remove it).  You might need to remove the sliding eyecup to improve IPD and nose room.  The tricky part is trying to secure and then release them from the self-centering eyepiece holders because of the 2" skirt.  The knurled ring just fits between the two barrels with no room left for fingers.  I suppose you could secure them further down the 1.25" barrel, but then you'd need more in focus.

[GavStar]

Thanks for the advice. Regarding the ES 62 I've decided to send them straight back without testing them (apart the the eye relief) since they're not suitable for me. For the moment I've decided to stick with my Pentax xf and pan 24mm eyepieces for binoviewing.