help needed with relays

[msh1]

hi guys im trying to setup for unattended imaging basically  so i can go to bed and in the morning mount tucked away and roof closed up but lots of data to process, i bought a load of 8pin relays dpdt and bases a vellman vn110n board ,levsedome software  and a auroraeurotech cloud/rain detector  what i want to do is for the cloud detector if it senses rain or cloud to move the mount (azeq6gt ) to a custom park position then the roof to close, now i realise i havent a clue on how to wire it all up i have looked at a wiring diagram but cant make head nor tail of it can someone please give me an idiots guide on how to wire it all up in language a child could understand a big ask i know  

thanks 

mark

[mapstar]

22 hours ago, msh1 said:

hi guys im trying to setup for unattended imaging basically  so i can go to bed and in the morning mount tucked away and roof closed up but lots of data to process, i bought a load of 8pin relays dpdt and bases a vellman vn110n board ,levsedome software  and a auroraeurotech cloud/rain detector  what i want to do is for the cloud detector if it senses rain or cloud to move the mount (azeq6gt ) to a custom park position then the roof to close, now i realise i havent a clue on how to wire it all up i have looked at a wiring diagram but cant make head nor tail of it can someone please give me an idiots guide on how to wire it all up in language a child could understand a big ask i know  

thanks 

mark

Hi Mark

I've never done it but it may be better if you post a wiring diagram so we can all see where the inputs and outputs are to be wired.

As I see it it is just a sequencer of some description.

Cloud sensor detects cloud rain and outputs to mount park input which drives to pre determined park position.

Once mount is parked it sends an output to the roof close direction which drives until it hits the fully closed limit. 

I'm unfamiliar with the software myself but I'm sure with a little trial and error you will get there.

More details will help. 

[steppenwolf]

I have an automated system like this all set up and functioning so it might be worth taking a look at this link.

However, you have obviously done some research or you wouldn't have bought the Velleman board and a bunch of relays so what exact part is holding you up? To set the ball rolling, perhaps you can answer a couple of questions:-

1. Is your observatory  a 'roll off roof' or 'rotating dome'

2. Apart from the Lesvedome software, what software will you be using to control operations including orchestrating observatory control and Auroratech output?

 

 

 

[msh1]

32 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

I have an automated system like this all set up and functioning so it might be worth taking a look at this link.

However, you have obviously done some research or you wouldn't have bought the Velleman board and a bunch of relays so what exact part is holding you up? To set the ball rolling, perhaps you can answer a couple of questions:-

1. Is your observatory  a 'roll off roof' or 'rotating dome'

2. Apart from the Lesvedome software, what software will you be using to control operations including orchestrating observatory control and Auroratech output?

 

 

 

hi steve my observatory is roll of roof using a sliding gate motor ,not sure on the software yet to be honest , it was reading your post that got me into this lol its the wiring up of the relays i dont understand ,not a clue on which wire goes to which terminal im not electrically minded 

mark

[msh1]

1 hour ago, mapstar said:

Hi Mark

I've never done it but it may be better if you post a wiring diagram so we can all see where the inputs and outputs are to be wired.

As I see it it is just a sequencer of some description.

Cloud sensor detects cloud rain and outputs to mount park input which drives to pre determined park position.

Once mount is parked it sends an output to the roof close direction which drives until it hits the fully closed limit. 

I'm unfamiliar with the software myself but I'm sure with a little trial and error you will get there.

More details will help. 

this is the wiring diagram http://www.dppobservatory.net/ROR/ED-ROR-V04.pdf wiring is not my strong point lol

[cjdawson]

Here's a breakdown of how relays work....  First look at this picture.

Basically a relay is a switch but instead if you turning it on and off, a magnet does that.   When you connect pins 2 and 7 (on this diagram) to the battery, the switch will close.    when you unplug the switch will open.

That's the idea of it.

In your case, you have a DPTP relay, so when you connect up pins 2 and 7, both switches in the relay will change at the same time.

 

In the above diagram, pins 1,3 and 4 are one switch, pins 5,6,8 are the other switch.

Pin 1 is common, and will connect to either pin 3 or 4 depending on the magnet.

Pin 8 is command and again will switch between pins 5 and 6.

 

You should be able to find the correct diagram for your relays on the site where you purchased them from.

Unless stated, it shouldn't matter if you connect pin 2 to positive or negative, just make sure that pin 7 will complete the circuit.  Of course, some relays do care and the diagram will state the polarity.

[msh1]

8 hours ago, cjdawson said:

Here's a breakdown of how relays work....  First look at this picture.

Basically a relay is a switch but instead if you turning it on and off, a magnet does that.   When you connect pins 2 and 7 (on this diagram) to the battery, the switch will close.    when you unplug the switch will open.

That's the idea of it.

In your case, you have a DPTP relay, so when you connect up pins 2 and 7, both switches in the relay will change at the same time.

 

In the above diagram, pins 1,3 and 4 are one switch, pins 5,6,8 are the other switch.

Pin 1 is common, and will connect to either pin 3 or 4 depending on the magnet.

Pin 8 is command and again will switch between pins 5 and 6.

 

You should be able to find the correct diagram for your relays on the site where you purchased them from.

Unless stated, it shouldn't matter if you connect pin 2 to positive or negative, just make sure that pin 7 will complete the circuit.  Of course, some relays do care and the diagram will state the polarity.

thanks for that i can sort of see how it works my mate is coming over to help me now thanks for the help guys 

[mapstar]

Good to hear you have some hands on help planned. If you are not fully familiar with how they operate your friend will be invaluable.

Cjdawson explaned the relay workings really well. 

The wiring diagram you posted is going to take some working through? and you should break it down into sections to connect it and test. You can then tag them all together.

Keep us updated as help is always here if ypu need it. 

 

 

[cjdawson]

14 hours ago, msh1 said:

thanks for that i can sort of see how it works my mate is coming over to help me now thanks for the help guys 

Glad that has been helpful.  Get your friend to show you how they work using a battery and a volt meter.   That should help to make it really obvious.   Once you have your head around Relays, it's not that much of a stretch to understand how transisters work.  (I'm keeping it simple).

12 hours ago, mapstar said:

Good to hear you have some hands on help planned. If you are not fully familiar with how they operate your friend will be invaluable.

Cjdawson explaned the relay workings really well. 

The wiring diagram you posted is going to take some working through? and you should break it down into sections to connect it and test. You can then tag them all together.

Keep us updated as help is always here if ypu need it. 

 

 

Breaking things down into small parts is the only way to do, I fully agree with this comment.

 

I've got a back burner project to build a Camera slider, with rotation.  It also has a built in intervalometer, and will have some basic light metering.  The whole thing will be controlled by a Raspberry Pi 3.    A project like that sounds complicated, but again, i'm breaking it down into parts.... 1. build the light meter.  2. build the intervalometer 3. Make the slider work, including end stop detection 4. Make the rotation work.  5. put it all together into one awesome package.    Each part will have it's own circuits and will build on the last part of the project.     Doing this all at once would be extremely complicated.  So by breaking it down means that I can fully understand it and also concentrate on just one part.  Instead of getting overwhelmed by the whole thing.

[steppenwolf]

Sorry for the late reply but I have been on one of my 'outdoor adventures' so I've been off-grid!

The advice that you have been given so far is all good and your friend's input will be invaluable.

Here's something to help the thought process:-

The parking of the mount will NOT be carried out using any of the relays, this will be done under software control subsequent to a message from the cloud/rain sensor or an input from you, hence my question about control software.

As you have a roll-off-roof, you could use my circuit diagram (for closing the aperture).

[RuralBill]

On 16 August 2016 at 22:27, msh1 said:

hi guys im trying to setup for unattended imaging basically  so i can go to bed and in the morning mount tucked away and roof closed up but lots of data to process, i bought a load of 8pin relays dpdt and bases a vellman vn110n board ,levsedome software  and a auroraeurotech cloud/rain detector  what i want to do is for the cloud detector if it senses rain or cloud to move the mount (azeq6gt ) to a custom park position then the roof to close, now i realise i havent a clue on how to wire it all up i have looked at a wiring diagram but cant make head nor tail of it can someone please give me an idiots guide on how to wire it all up in language a child could understand a big ask i know  

thanks 

mark

Just my opinion, but doesn't that take all the fun out of this superb hobby....part of the excitement for me is to get all my kit up and running and working together, and then watching the data roll in..

like I said just my opinion

Bill

[martin_h]

The circuit you gave is for the full monty for control, if you are just going to open/close the roof you only need this circuit..... http://www.dppobservatory.net/ROR/ED-ROR-basic-V01.pdf

Less confusing!

[msh1]

3 hours ago, steppenwolf said:

Sorry for the late reply but I have been on one of my 'outdoor adventures' so I've been off-grid!

The advice that you have been given so far is all good and your friend's input will be invaluable.

Here's something to help the thought process:-

The parking of the mount will NOT be carried out using any of the relays, this will be done under software control subsequent to a message from the cloud/rain sensor or an input from you, hence my question about control software.

As you have a roll-off-roof, you could use my circuit diagram (for closing the aperture).

hi steve im thinking i might go sgpro or ccd commander not sure yet or even if they support auroraeurotech cloud sensors im sure i have seen an ascom driver for it somewhere 

1 hour ago, RuralBill said:

Just my opinion, but doesn't that take all the fun out of this superb hobby....part of the excitement for me is to get all my kit up and running and working together, and then watching the data roll in..

like I said just my opinion

Bill

hi bill you are right but i stay outside till 1 ish have to be up early for work , just would be good to be able to leave it running by its self  for a few more hrs 

1 hour ago, martin_h said:

The circuit you gave is for the full monty for control, if you are just going to open/close the roof you only need this circuit..... http://www.dppobservatory.net/ROR/ED-ROR-basic-V01.pdf

Less confusing!

hi martin yeah i know i linked to the wrong page 

[martin_h]

I use the exact same circuit and software to control a garage door opener activated ROR and it works well.

[msh1]

hi guys my friend had to go to work today and i need to get this done asap . this is the relay diagram as seen on the relay could someone tell me which wire goes to which terminal please http://www.dppobservatory.net/ROR/ED-ROR-basic-V01.pdf just k7 and k6

thanks mark

ps mine is without the led

 

 

 

[msh1]

ahah it sort of works i can open and close the roll off/on roof via the k8055n demo software but not through levsedome and i have to have both bits of software open or the levsedome wont do anything just hangs i havent a clue on whats happening can anyone shed anylight on where we have gone wrong please

[steppenwolf]

LesveDome is purely an ASCOM driver, you have to control the observatory using additional software which operates through the driver.

Have you installed the ASCOM platform? If not, you must  do this first.

Try using ANY astronomy software that can connect to your mount using POTH. Once POTH is invoked you will have the opportunity of connecting other devices including an observatory and this will give you access to an 'Open' and 'Close' button.

 

[msh1]

26 minutes ago, steppenwolf said:

LesveDome is purely an ASCOM driver, you have to control the observatory using additional software which operates through the driver.

Have you installed the ASCOM platform? If not, you must  do this first.

Try using ANY astronomy software that can connect to your mount using POTH. Once POTH is invoked you will have the opportunity of connecting other devices including an observatory and this will give you access to an 'Open' and 'Close' button.

 

cheers steve aha it all makes sense now i had forgotten it was just a driver i have been using ascom and eqmod for yrs now . i have just bought sgpro i will set it up hopefully it should work i will let you know 

thanks mark

[msh1]

On 8/20/2016 at 18:43, steppenwolf said:

LesveDome is purely an ASCOM driver, you have to control the observatory using additional software which operates through the driver.

Have you installed the ASCOM platform? If not, you must  do this first.

Try using ANY astronomy software that can connect to your mount using POTH. Once POTH is invoked you will have the opportunity of connecting other devices including an observatory and this will give you access to an 'Open' and 'Close' button.

 

hi steve it works it works happy days, now for the next problem im using sgpro and i cant get the obsy to slave to eqmod or get the cloud sensor to send the scope to a custom park position to close obsy roof probably user error any ideas 

mark

[martin_h]

To slave you need to go to "Tools - Equipment Profile Manager - Other - Observatory - Slave Settings" and tick the appropriate boxes, remembering that it wont actually be slaved until the sequence starts running.

For a custom park you need to go to the telescope control and send the mount to its park position then hit "set park"

For an end of session or weather event you need to have the appropriate boxes checked - in the slave section there is a box to check for park mount before roof close.

 

[martin_h]

Does your Rain/cloud detector have an Ascom Driver? If so it needs to be setup in the profile manager under "Other"

If it doesnt have an ascom driver does it have a relay in the sensor itself that can be used to trip the roof to close, but if you need to park the mount first you may have a problem.

[msh1]

58 minutes ago, martin_h said:

To slave you need to go to "Tools - Equipment Profile Manager - Other - Observatory - Slave Settings" and tick the appropriate boxes, remembering that it wont actually be slaved until the sequence starts running.

For a custom park you need to go to the telescope control and send the mount to its park position then hit "set park"

For an end of session or weather event you need to have the appropriate boxes checked - in the slave section there is a box to check for park mount before roof close.

 

thank you i did find out how to do it about midnight last night i rtfm lol

[msh1]

43 minutes ago, martin_h said:

Does your Rain/cloud detector have an Ascom Driver? If so it needs to be setup in the profile manager under "Other"

If it doesnt have an ascom driver does it have a relay in the sensor itself that can be used to trip the roof to close, but if you need to park the mount first you may have a problem.

i found an ascom driver that someone has written, i was hoping that the sgpro software would tell the mount to park to a custom position if it becomes unsafe then the roof would close is this not the case 

mark

[martin_h]

8 minutes ago, msh1 said:

i found an ascom driver that someone has written, i was hoping that the sgpro software would tell the mount to park to a custom position if it becomes unsafe then the roof would close is this not the case 

mark

 

Yes that is what usually happens, try it, open the roof run a dummy sequence and splash some water on the rain sensor........ its got 2 chances!

[msh1]

im one step forward 2 back ,it was sort of working i didnt have time to test if the roof closed due to rain , now the computer is really playing up waiting on a new win 7 disc im going to reformat and start again