Wide field first light

[Size9Hex]

A neat first outing under the dark skies of the New Forest for the Startravel 102 refractor that arrived this week to sit in the niche between my binos and the dob. I took a punt on it, assuming it might turn out to be a wide field one trick pony and figured that anything else would be considered a bonus. Looking forwards to seeing how it fares, and if it's rubbish, well at least it came more or less with a free tripod.

Warming up, the Double Cluster, Beehive and Melotte 111 were all nice bright naked eye targets, easily placed in the red dot sight, and lovely at 21 and 36x. Sharp stars, with colours in the right place, and no colour where it shouldn't be.

I'm ever hopeful with the Auriga nebulae but I fear it's just too low in the sky now, even though the transparency was particularly good last night. At 21x with UHC and OIII, the boomerang of the Flaming Star was not seen, although I wondered whether a small patch around AE Aur was visible. IC 410 and (for the first time) IC 417 both appeared somewhat cloudy along the chains of stars, but I didn't spend much time examining them to be sure it wasn't ghosting, or unresolved chains of stars, so I'm not going to claim it. Lovely to see the Starfish and Pinwheel clusters in the same view.

The Heart and Soul nebulae were higher up in Cassiopeia, but still low in the sky (25 degrees) in the grand scheme of things. At 21x and OIII, each time I looked away from the eyepiece and looked back at the Heart, a swirl like a stylised figure "3" was seen. I'm loath to say it was the nebula because I don't think my eye has yet completely learned the difference between unresolved trails of stars and nebulosity. That said, I saw no such nebulosity without the filter. Intuitively, I wonder whether 25 degrees is unrealistically low in the sky. It looked jolly good either way though! A somewhat brighter view with more extensive nebulosity (caveated as before) with the UHC.

I'm inclined to call it a day on nebulae for now until the Milky Way is better placed high in the sky. From last night, I've got some big hopes for this scope when it is!

The main reason for the outing was to see some spring galaxies in the southern sky. Virgo isn't really visible from home and I've never explored it. Frankly, I'm intimidated by it when I see it on the map, but at 21x the ST102 was like a supercharged finder scope. Galaxy hopping rather than star hopping! The 24mm eyepiece gives a similar exit pupil in the new scope (4.9) to the faithful dob (5.1), but I don't recall galaxies popping out so vibrantly in the dob with this eyepiece. Could this be the famous contrasty view of the refractor? In all, 20 Messier galaxies and 1 globular bagged in rapid succession across Virgo, Coma B and Hydra. M83 (Southern Pinwheel Galaxy) was a slippery fish 9 degrees above the horizon! Not my usual style of savouring a target, although to sense the big picture of a sky loaded with galaxies was quite awe inspiring. There were so many here that need a return visit with a big mirror and a sensibly located eyepiece...

A couple of cheeky doubles to test the scope in the form of Porrima (clean split at 106x) and the Double Double (detected at 106x). Porrima was unforgiving on the focusing with some unpleasant false colour. The Double Double was quite elegant I thought. I decided when I bought the scope that I wouldn't be disappointed if it performed badly on doubles, but I was pleasantly surprised by this.

The less said about the view of Jupiter of course, the better...

Good impressions of this scope from last nights session, although it definitely has its limits. I love the fact you can cram so much sky into such a tiny scope!

[laudropb]

Glad you enjoyed your first light with the ST 102. I got one a month ago, mainly with the intention of using it with a Herschel wedge for solar. However I found it a very good scope on doubles and other night time targets. Like you I am pleasantly surprised how good it is.

[Special K]

That's a wonderful tour of the deep sky.........and with shiny new equipment is double the fun!

25 degrees is not so bad.  Nice nebula but can be tough to get a handle on unlike something like Orion or a bright planetary.   Have you landed on the Dumbell Nebula yet?  If any DSO can stand light pollution and even moonlight its that one!  Still an early morning treat, till summer. 

[Size9Hex]

14 minutes ago, laudropb said:

Glad you enjoyed your first light with the ST 102. I got one a month ago, mainly with the intention of using it with a Herschel wedge for solar. However I found it a very good scope on doubles and other night time targets. Like you I am pleasantly surprised how good it is.

Snap!  I'm also hoping it proves to be a nice choice for solar. It's nice to hear you've got one too, and with similar intentions. Have you had a chance to use it with the wedge yet? I rushed the purchase of a Lunt wedge, having realised how few chances there will be to see a planetary transit. The view knocked my sideways! Although not designed for this purpose, I found that my OIII filter tightened the view up very nicely (although it was still good even at 100x without, albeit with a purple haze at the rim).

[Size9Hex]

27 minutes ago, Special K said:

That's a wonderful tour of the deep sky.........and with shiny new equipment is double the fun!

25 degrees is not so bad.  Nice nebula but can be tough to get a handle on unlike something like Orion or a bright planetary.   Have you landed on the Dumbell Nebula yet?  If any DSO can stand light pollution and even moonlight its that one!  Still an early morning treat, till summer. 

Thanks! You can't beat snazzy new kit. Not just double the fun, but also double the confusion figuring out how to use it in the dark!

These big nebulae really are elusive. I've found that the handles frequently seem to follow the chains of stars too which adds a layer of visual distraction on top of what I'm hoping to see. A tough feature in a distant galaxy might require persistance, but when it appears (maybe very briefly) it's relatively defined/distinct/unambiguous. I sometimes wonder if nebulae are the opposite. Faint certainly, but a number of times I've felt they were staring me in the face if only I could see past the distracting stars! The first two faint nebulae I succesfullly saw were the Flame and the background to the Horsehead which don't seem to have such distraction. Maybe I'm just spouting nonsense...

I caught the Dumbell last year with my binos, and it's one I'm definitely looking forwards to seeing with the scope when the chance comes along. In fact my pre-scope recollections from last summer are heavily loaded with non-descript tiny grey blobs that I'm very much looking forwards to seeing again with more powerful kit and (I hope) a slightly keener eye this summer.

[Stu]

Welcome to the wonderful world of dark skies and widefield scopes, you can't beat it.

Great report, lovely haul of galaxies you got there. Just wait until the Veil and NAN are well positioned then get yourself back to the New Forest for a proper look at them, amazing stuff.

[Size9Hex]

35 minutes ago, Stu said:

Welcome to the wonderful world of dark skies and widefield scopes, you can't beat it.

Great report, lovely haul of galaxies you got there. Just wait until the Veil and NAN are well positioned then get yourself back to the New Forest for a proper look at them, amazing stuff.

I can't wait to see those two! The NAN in particular is one that sticks in my mind from a childhood book. More so than the Horsehead in fact. I confess, I did have a quick look for it last night. Cygnus was scraping the horizon, the eyepiece ended up too high off the ground to look into, so I angled the diagonal to the side, and then completely lost the plot with my ups and downs and backwards lefts and rights. I don't think it was meant to be!

[Stu]

14 minutes ago, Size9Hex said:

I can't wait to see those two! The NAN in particular is one that sticks in my mind from a childhood book. More so than the Horsehead in fact. I confess, I did have a quick look for it last night. Cygnus was scraping the horizon, the eyepiece ended up too high off the ground to look into, so I angled the diagonal to the side, and then completely lost the plot with my ups and downs and backwards lefts and rights. I don't think it was meant to be!

It's a cracker in late July/Early August when it's high overhead late in the evening. Proper Astro darkness by then but still quite warm. Lovely, one of my favourites times of year to observe. For some reason the ISS always seems to do lovely evening passes at that time of year too.

It does get horribly confusing once you move your diagonal away from straight up doesn't it!! ??

[Piero]

Nice one!  

The Veil and the North America are really amazing with a rich field telescope under a dark sky (and a good filter!). Not easy to detect at the beginning, but once you know what to expect, details pop up easily! Nice galaxy session too!  

[John]

Great report Paul !

+1 for the Veil. With my F/6.5 102mm refractor, the 31mm Nagler plus O-III filter I can see the whole darn thing on a dark night - E & W segments, Pickerings Wisp and other bits and pieces. Best Summer object IMHO

 

[alan potts]

What a lovely report yet again. I was turned on to the Veil by John and even bought the filter for it at the same time, it looks stunning in the big Dob though I can only view parts of it. 

I have looked at getting one of these wide field scopes for a long time but never so far pushed the button. I feel if I were in the UK I would have picked up one S/H by now. I always fancied a 6 inch widefield, I the Veil would look great though one of those though maybe getting it all in would be a task, so many of these Olll nebulea are so big. I can get to just over 3 degrees with my 115mm APO and that makes the Veil look wonderful and I have also tried it with the piggyback scope on the Meade, a 70mm ED APO which must get to 5 degrees plus, with the right eyepiece, it can be seen but not as good as I would like.

Alan

[cotterless45]

Lovely report ! Can't beat the Forest for cracking views. Given the chance, I hang out at Woodgreen in the middle of the common or the better and wider, Turf Hill,

Nick.

[Size9Hex]

7 hours ago, alan potts said:

What a lovely report yet again. I was turned on to the Veil by John and even bought the filter for it at the same time, it looks stunning in the big Dob though I can only view parts of it. 

I have looked at getting one of these wide field scopes for a long time but never so far pushed the button. I feel if I were in the UK I would have picked up one S/H by now. I always fancied a 6 inch widefield, I the Veil would look great though one of those though maybe getting it all in would be a task, so many of these Olll nebulea are so big. I can get to just over 3 degrees with my 115mm APO and that makes the Veil look wonderful and I have also tried it with the piggyback scope on the Meade, a 70mm ED APO which must get to 5 degrees plus, with the right eyepiece, it can be seen but not as good as I would like.

Alan

It does seem a bit of a balancing act with wide field. It's interesting you mention a 70mm ED and a 6 inch. I was chewing over the Starwave 70mm ED and I wondered if it was too wide a field of view (at a 5-6mm exit pupil), but equally if you go too far the other way, the field of view might be too limited (which is one reason I ruled out the ST120). Choosing the main scope was much easier - just get as much aperture as you're willing to pay for and/or struggle to lift!

[Size9Hex]

4 hours ago, cotterless45 said:

Lovely report ! Can't beat the Forest for cracking views. Given the chance, I hang out at Woodgreen in the middle of the common or the better and wider, Turf Hill,

Nick.

Thanks! I'd seen you'd posted a couple of reports from the forest. Not quite grab n go territory from Derbyshire! You're right about the New Forest skies and it's a treat to visit during the day too. Coincidently I was at Turf Hill. It was recommended to me by another forum member many moons ago. I've only been a handful of times as it's a bit of a faff to get the car loaded, but it's certainly a good spot. Never seen another stargazer there though.

[alan potts]

I do find the 70mm ED useful, I had two once both have the CF tube, but now I have just the one mounted piggyback on the 12 inch, they are sort of made for that and it is very at home there and of course it is ddriven. The good thing is even at 420mm F/L there is nothing really in the way of CA apart from a very little on the edge of the Moon and Venus, even Jupiter looks good. I personally feel 80mm and short with quality optics is the right call, just not keen on the price tags.

Alan.

[Stu]

John's Vixen 102SS is lovely for the Veil at f6.5. My Tak needs a reducer but works very well on it too. I think my favourite views were with an old Televue Genesis f5 with a 21mm Ethos, or even a 17mm would do it. 3.5 degree field and 3.5mm exit pupil for a nice dark background. Lovely stuff.

[Size9Hex]

3 hours ago, alan potts said:

I do find the 70mm ED useful, I had two once both have the CF tube, but now I have just the one mounted piggyback on the 12 inch, they are sort of made for that and it is very at home there and of course it is ddriven. The good thing is even at 420mm F/L there is nothing really in the way of CA apart from a very little on the edge of the Moon and Venus, even Jupiter looks good. I personally feel 80mm and short with quality optics is the right call, just not keen on the price tags.

Alan.

Good shout. I was so close to buying a 70mm ED instead. It did look like a lovely and very useful scope. Your comments have whet the appetite even further! I think the main thing that changed my mind was when realising that my lack of mount, 2" diagonal and a slightly longer focal length eyepiece to go alongside the slower (than my dob) optics made it enormously more expensive than it first appeared. Young family these days, but I can imagine it being the equipment of choice if I ever get another chance to travel to the tropics or southern hemisphere again!