Canon DSLR disconnection problems

[Ishan Mair]

Hi everyone.

I've got an 1100D that gets disconnected from my laptop exactly when the shutter opens for a click. This happens at any shot randomly (1st, 2nd, or 25th I've tried till 25 shots) when ALL these conditions are met:

a...Dslr runs using  12v DC(from 26Ah SLA battery)  to 7.4V (adjustable) DC LM2596 converter to make an adapter like ACK adapter

b...Mount is powered from same battery as dslr.

c...USB2EQ5 (from Shoestring Astronomy, USA) is plugged into the usb port of laptop. (Things  don't change whether the mount power switch is on/off)

d...USB extension cable (3 meter) is used to connect dslr with laptop.

When I use the camera's Li-ion battery, there's no problem. I've also noted that if I connect dslr to laptop via APT before the mount through EQMOD, then it wont last more than 5 test clicks. If mount is connected first, EQMOD fired up then dslr is connected, it works usually upto 20 shots on camera.

One more thing. For about 6 months, upto two weeks ago, I was using a generic ACK-E10 like adapter from Hong Kong for the camera. It worked fine. Suddenly, camera decided to revolt. It kept getting connected/disconnected continuously (no chance to click a shot). So I experimented but didn't find any evidence. Concluded it must be the AC adapter as everything worked if camera was running off the Li-ion battery. Then made the dc-dc converter adapter. Only things that are common now between these problems are laptop, camera and battery eliminator.

Thank you for being patient. Whats going on over here friends? Is it electrical grounding?

[Steve Ward]

Only time I've had trouble is when the lead hangs down from the camera , it can easily flex the battery door minutely but enough to activate the microswitch on the door.

I always now route the cable out of the compartment and over the camera body rather than straight down.

[Ishan Mair]

Thanks Steve. But I think that can be ruled out because it also happened when camera was resting on a table.

[Xplode]

I had the same problem with a 600D and a cheap AC adaptor from ebay. A Canon AC adaptor worked perfectly.

Using a shorter USB cable fixed the problem too, but the long one worked perfectly with the Canon AC adapter so the USB cable itself wasn't the cause.

[Stub Mandrel]

Sounds like either a marginal supply or noise on the power lines.

You may well have an earth loop power supply - mount - laptop - camera - power supply which would make it all more vulnerable to noise.

I'm sure I have read somewhere that for reliability the camera PSU should be completely isolated from all the others.

[Jimtom]

I'm sure that you have checked but is the buck converter definitely giving 7.4v? I know that some of them have a voltage display but you should not rely on that, check with a good voltmeter while under load, it may be supplying less than is needed.

Jim

[Ishan Mair]

Thanks Ole, Jim and Mandrel ( Sorry if I got the name wrong.)

I had the same problem with a 600D and a cheap AC adaptor from ebay. A Canon AC adaptor worked perfectly.

Using a shorter USB cable fixed the problem too, but the long one worked perfectly with the Canon AC adapter so the USB cable itself wasn't the cause.

I hope I don't have to spend a lot on the genuine Canon adaptor. I might rather try a few more usb extensions worth nothing or an active usb extension first.

Sounds like either a marginal supply or noise on the power lines.

You may well have an earth loop power supply - mount - laptop - camera - power supply which would make it all more vulnerable to noise.

I'm sure I have read somewhere that for reliability the camera PSU should be completely isolated from all the others.

Electronics always "grounded" me !! Anything that can be done to break that loop? I've read something like "common ground" . Please, excuse me if I am wrong. How can I "isolate" the PSU? 

I'm sure that you have checked but is the buck converter definitely giving 7.4v? I know that some of them have a voltage display but you should not rely on that, check with a good voltmeter while under load, it may be supplying less than is needed.

Jim

Ya. It doesn't have a display so checked it using a voltmeter. Shows 7.41V with camera on and idle. Sometimes, jumps to 7.42 V when mirror slaps.

[Stub Mandrel]

If it was a musical setup (and the amps were double insulated as they should be - doing this with old valve amps with a live chassis ended up killing more than one poor soul) you would simply 'lift' one of the ground lines in a signal cable. The equivalent for you would be breaking the shield and the black wire in a USB cable which I think is inadvisable.

Can you get a 7Ah fire alarm battery or similar and use that to power just the DSLR?

[Mick J]

I just put a voltmeter across a couple of canon batteries - no load/not freshly charged - getting closer to 7.8 volts,  found a couple of links that may be worth reading.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/164345-canon-1000d-lp-e5-battery-eliminator-part-deux

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/227604-8v-power-output-for-canon-camera-added-to-my-diy-power-mount-hub

[Stub Mandrel]

I just put a voltmeter across a couple of canon batteries - no load/not freshly charged - getting closer to 7.8 volts,  found a couple of links that may be worth reading.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/164345-canon-1000d-lp-e5-battery-eliminator-part-deux

That could be your answer - if 7.4 is the 'low battery' level, the extra load of shutter firing might be enough to make it shut down. Try bumping it up to  7.8 - 8v and see if that cures it.

[Alien 13]

I would agree 7.4V might be ok as a battery voltage but cable losses etc when shooting might take it close to the low bat detection threshold. Just a note but the canon battery grip AA adapter outputs more than 9V with a fresh set of duracels so a supply of around 8V should be ok.

Alan

[Ishan Mair]

Thanks. I'll try bumping up the voltage to 8V. I went upto 7.5V yesterday, but  then was out of courage  .

I'll check out the 7 Ah battery option. But I am averse to one more trip out to set the imaging gear. If nothing else works, that's the way to go.

[Jimtom]

I've been checking this out as I want to run my 600D on external battery power.

From what I can glean so far I discovered that  apparently most Canon cameras won't work on a voltage that's either too high or too low. There is some sort of sensor that shuts it down if too high or low.  8.5v will be OK, that's what they say, but I'll let you go first  

[jsmoraes]

When I use the camera's Li-ion battery, there's no problem

IMHO.

1. your DC converter doesn't provide  right voltage

2. your DC converter doesn't provide  right amperage, and with it low voltage. The shutter and mirror movement have high consumption

3. your converter cause bad electrical contact when the shutter acts because of mechanical vibration.

What program you use to control the DSLR ? I have problem with Astrojan Tools because of time out during internal activities of my Canon. BackyarEos can suport these periods of internal process. I don't loose contact with my camera with it.

This occurred with AC/DC converter and battery although

[Ishan Mair]

Thanks guys.

I setup last night with mount and laptop using mains power. 1100D with 12V battery using the converter. Set the converter to 8V (checked in voltmeter). Started test run for M31 after polar alignment. Woke up at night twice to find camera disconnected and reconnected from/to laptop. APT Lights plan obviously stopped due to connection lost.

I've been checking this out as I want to run my 600D on external battery power.

From what I can glean so far I discovered that  apparently most Canon cameras won't work on a voltage that's either too high or too low. There is some sort of sensor that shuts it down if too high or low.  8.5v will be OK, that's what they say, but I'll let you go first

I checked a freshly full charged LP-E10 battery with multimeter. Its 8.13V open condition. I don't think I'll risk 8.5V ever.

IMHO.

1. your DC converter doesn't provide  right voltage
2. your DC converter doesn't provide  right amperage, and with it low voltage. The shutter and mirror movement have high consumption
3. your converter cause bad electrical contact when the shutter acts because of mechanical vibration.

What program you use to control the DSLR ? I have problem with Astrojan Tools because of time out during internal activities of my Canon. BackyarEos can suport these periods of internal process. I don't loose contact with my camera with it.

This occurred with AC/DC converter and battery although

Thanks JSM. But I think I've eliminated the 1st from the list. I checked it for a range of voltages from 7.3V to 8V but yet the problem continues. I have no idea how much current the camera draws during mirror movement. It would be helpful if you could share some data on that. 3rd is on my list. I've tried putting a small card shim inside it to reduce the space between the pin and plug. I'll try that again. I use APT. But the problem persists even with the EOS Utility.

[Ishan Mair]

I had the same problem with a 600D and a cheap AC adaptor from ebay. A Canon AC adaptor worked perfectly.

Using a shorter USB cable fixed the problem too, but the long one worked perfectly with the Canon AC adapter so the USB cable itself wasn't the cause.

Ole, if you could tell me what voltage does the Canon AC adaptor provide then I could try setting mine to that.

[jsmoraes]

Ishan, my AC/DC converter for my Canon 1100D provide 7.4 Volts DC and 2 Ampers and I use around 3 meters of USB cable.

If your camera work with 3 meters USB cable and battery ... it seems that your converter with LM2596 aren't providing the correct amperage.

If your camera doesn't work with 3 meters USB cable and battery ... the problem is the 3 meters cable. Test with a small or better quality cable.

Are you using something like this as substitution of battery ? A good eletrical contact is very important.

For my Canon 350D I used an old battery. I pulled out the internal batteries and I did  connection of the wires inside. Only two contacts are imporant: Plus and Minus. The third (the middle contact)  is to know if battery are with good charge. You don't need use it.

My netbook has 3 USB connectors. My Canons (1100D and 350D) only work well with only one of these connectors.

[Tinker1947]

If none of the above suggestions work or even if they do a bit of RF protection won't hurt, a ferrite ring on the cables either side of the DC Convertor............

[Ishan Mair]

Ishan, my AC/DC converter for my Canon 1100D provide 7.4 Volts DC and 2 Ampers and I use around 3 meters of USB cable.

If your camera work with 3 meters USB cable and battery ... it seems that your converter with LM2596 aren't providing the correct amperage.

If your camera doesn't work with 3 meters USB cable and battery ... the problem is the 3 meters cable. Test with a small or better quality cable.

Are you using something like this as substitution of battery ? A good eletrical contact is very important.

falsebattery.jpg

For my Canon 350D I used an old battery. I pulled out the internal batteries and I did  connection of the wires inside. Only two contacts are imporant: Plus and Minus. The third (the middle contact)  is to know if battery are with good charge. You don't need use it.

My netbook has 3 USB connectors. My Canons (1100D and 350D) only work well with only one of these connectors.

Thanks JSM for the info on converter. My camera works with the battery and long usb extension cable perfectly. It also worked with my DIY DC-DC converter and smaller genuine Canon usb cable. The problem arises when mount is connected to laptop which is must for guiding. The length might be a problem though as total usb cable length is 9 + 5 = 14 feet.

Yes the image shows what I use as a substitute for battery. I'll work on maintaining good contact first because vendor says LM2596 can provide 2 amp. What stumps me is the role of mount. 

If none of the above suggestions work or even if they do a bit of RF protection won't hurt, a ferrite ring on the cables either side of the DC Convertor............

Thanks Tinker. There's a chance its interference due to mount. I'll try the ferrites. I'll have to look for the procedure to install those.

[Tinker1947]

This type, just wrap the cable round a few times and close them up, there are different sizes 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ferrite-clip-on-hem3018-n95ab

[michael8554]

1) What Power Scheme are you using on the laptop - not going into sleep, hibernation, any other power-saving mode is it?

2) Check Device Manager / USB Controllers / USB Root Hubs / Power,  and / Power Management, for the Root Hubs in use.

  Are they supplying enough power, are they set to save power?

Michael

[Ishan Mair]

This type, just wrap the cable round a few times and close them up, there are different sizes 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/ferrite-clip-on-hem3018-n95ab

Thank you for the link. I'll get a few from the local store. I know, now, they sell these. I just noticed that Canon short cable doesn't have ferrite bead but the usb extension cable has it. Still its the extension that's part of the problem.

1) What Power Scheme are you using on the laptop - not going into sleep, hibernation, any other power-saving mode is it?

2) Check Device Manager / USB Controllers / USB Root Hubs / Power,  and / Power Management, for the Root Hubs in use.

  Are they supplying enough power, are they set to save power?

Michael

I suspected this earlier. But checked it again. Nope. All power saving settings have been turned off.

Meanwhile an UPDATE:

I just discovered that it also happens with a fully charged genuine Canon battery. I plugged my laptop charger into mains DIDNT switch it on. Connected camera powered by battery using extension cable. Flipped a few switches in the room. And it disconnects making the "ding-dong" sound. Does that on all the usb ports(2.0 and 3.0) and most frequently when I switched off an old fashioned light that uses a choke coil. I tried it again without extension cable. It didn't disconnect.

I also checked the two ends of extension cable for connectivity using multimeter. To my surprise, it shows no connection between the two ends !! But how on earth does it work sometimes?  

[jsmoraes]

Some long USB cables are powered, or better, they are active also.  Just to work with that distance.

Nevertheless, it seems that you found the culprit.

Maybe bad contact between the wires and usb connector, also.

I already worked with the original Canon usb cable (with around 1 meter) and an extension USB cable with aorund 2 meters. One side it was USB female and other side USB male. Some times the movement of telescope caused bad contact.

My netbook has 3 USB, but only two are real. One is an internal hubble to support two connections. My Canon don't like this internal hubble. And don't like any external hubble, too.

There are the possibility of problems with time out because of internal processing. Try BackyearEos as trial version. It support very well the "ocuppied" message from Canon.1100D. I told it before.

[Ishan Mair]

Sorry for not replying earlier. I was out on a vacation. I'll try another extension cable  and BYEOS. Thanks.