Compact telescope with decent quality/view

[IWatchStars]

Hello,

I bought my Celestron Firstscope in may and I had a lot of  fun with it. I can see the rings around saturn and detail on the moon. I also managed to find the Andromeda Galaxy but it was extremely faint and looked  like a smudge on the mirror. Also saturn looks very small through this scope.

Here are video's of saturn and the moon I managed to get with the scope:

This telescope was good for a couple weeks but I want more. I want to be able to see detail on Jupiter and the Cassini division in Saturn's rings. I also want to see more detail on the Andromede galaxy. I know I won't get views like the famous images of the galaxy.

I have considered a large 6 or 8 inch dobsonian, but that's not very practical in my situation. I live in a appartment on the second floor and there is no good places nearby for observing. What I need is a small telescope that is easy to travel with and is considerable better quality than my Firstscope.

My budget is around  500 euros.

What telescope would be recommended? I am considering a schmidt-cassagrain scope. How bad will the image quality be compared to a similar priced dobsonian reflector?

[IWatchStars]

How can I edit my post?

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I bought a Celestron C8 and am very pleased with it (bought it almost 2 decades ago from Ganymedes in Amstelveen). The images are largely comparable to a Dobsonian of the same aperture on planets (perhaps a touch less contrast), and the portability is great. On DSOs the main difference is the smaller FOV, but that is only a problem on a handful of objects (I have a little refractor for those).  The portability is so good I could even take it on holidays in a little Peugeot 106 with all the camping gear etc, to see the eclipse in 1999. Not something I could do as easily with an 8" dob. Imaging-wise, it is pretty good on planets and the moon, as can be seen below.

[ronin]

Think you need a few more posts to edit, although there is a post on this and no idea what the general opinion or view is heading to.

First is decide exactly what it is you want. Usually it is the biggest, or the most.

Biggest will be a reflector, the mirror will just be bigger.

Most magnification is generally a Mak or SCT, they have long focal lengths and you might obtain therefore the most magnification.

However a good ED refractor will I think give the nicest views.

I prefer the refractor, I like the views that they produce.

A Mak/SCT is supposed to give sharp images but I have never experienced this, so if they do there is method which I am unaware of to do so.

When you say 500 Euro is that just scope or scope and mount?

For planets you need to go to around 150x, Jupiter is bigger then Saturn and I have seen Saturn good and sharp in a Tal 100 with an 8mm eyepiece, 125x. Mars when it makes an appearance will need lots more and to an extend consider Mars as a specialised target. It is just not easy. Venus is cloud covered so all you see it the top of these - no detail.

DSO's are difficult, yes aperture helps, but some will always be small.

The 5" and 6" SCT's are very popular at a club near me, nice size and easily transportable, I would suggest looking at one of these initially at least.

[Chris]

With what you have said I would be considering a 5" Maksutov or a second hand 6" SCT within your budget.

You'll need to buy or make a dew shield for these scopes because they front corrector plates tend to be dew magnets. Also, you'll need to let them cool to the outside temperature before they will show you their best views. 

Your current scope has a ton of chromatic aberration which is killing detail. Even though the above scopes have a central obtsruction, they will show you a better quality views because they have no chromatic aberration. Then there is the aperture increase, I sense your already starting to learn about aperture fever!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Try going second-hand. The Dutch site www.te-les-koop.nl has many bargains, as does http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/. You get far more aperture for your buck going second-hand. I do not really see that the long focal lengths give more magnification, BTW. An F/10 scope with a 10mm EP gets the same magnification as an F/5 with a 5mm EP (or 10mm with 2x Barlow).

[BGazing]

for about 500 euros you can get the scope i opted for (Skymax 127 on Altaz Goto). I found it easy to use, a breeze to operate and it is very portable. I have also considered an ED refractor at around 80mm, but that would have set me back more with the mount. Who knows, a small  and short APO might make a good complementary addition to my mount later on .

If you have access to a second hand market you may find a bargain, but you have to check things carefully.

[AndyH]

Hi.

There's a Tal 150K (6" F10.25 Klevtsov-Cassegrain) plus accessories and a motorised Tal mount for sale in Belgium, if you were willing to travel. Last time I looked it seems to be still available and priced at €400.

http://www.kapaza.be/nl/telescopen/tal-150k---klevzov-cassegran-150x1550mm-f10-3-95885390.htm

Just thought I'd throw that out there. No idea about the website it's on. Is it like Gumtree???

Andy.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

There is a curious C5 model (F/6 rather than F/10) advertised here:

http://www.te-les-koop.nl/BekijkAdvertentie.php?key=19831

F/6 gives a larger FOV than the more usual F/10. Seems a good price for just the OTA. I see it comes with a 0.96" visual back, but it accepts the more common 1.25" visual back

[IWatchStars]

Thanks for the advice guys. I basically narrowed my options to the following two:

Celestron NexStar 127 SLT

• Maksutov-Cassegrain
• 127 millimeter mirror, 1500 millimeter focal length
• SkyAlign computerised goto
• RedDot finder
• 9 and 25 mm eypieces

Price: €519,-

Sky-Watcher Skymax-127 SynScan AZ GOTO

• Maksutov-Cassegrain
• 127 millimeter mirror, 1500 millimeter focal length
• SyncScan computerised goto
• 6x30 Finderscope
• 10 and 25 mm eypieces and a 2x barlow

Price €545,-

Basically very similair scopes.

These are the differences according to the reviews:

• Celestron had the better alignment software(SkyAlign). You don't have to know at which stars you are pointing with the Celestron one.
• The Sky-Watcher has a barlow included, but I don't think this is really an advantage because the max magnification with this scope is 254. The 25 mm eye piece + barlow will result in 120 times magnification which is less than the 10 mm that has a magnification of 150x without the barlow. the 10 mm with the barlow will result in 300x magnification which is more than the max magnification this scope can handle. Why do they even bother including it?
• The Celestron has a red dot finder and the Sky-Watcher has a 6x30 Finderscope, the red dot finder is more practical according to the reviews.
• The Celestron is a bit cheaper.

So the obvious choice would be the Celestron?

[AndyH]

Hi.

There's a Tal 150K (6" F10.25 Klevtsov-Cassegrain) plus accessories and a motorised Tal mount for sale in Belgium, if you were willing to travel. Last time I looked it seems to be still available and priced at €400.

http://www.kapaza.be/nl/telescopen/tal-150k---klevzov-cassegran-150x1550mm-f10-3-95885390.htm

Just thought I'd throw that out there. No idea about the website it's on. Is it like Gumtree???

Andy.

Item is in Antwerp, which, if my geography is correct, reasonably close to Rotterdam?

Anyway, I found the above thanks to a good old google images search. Perhaps it's only of interest to Tal fans like me, but I must admit I nearly wet myself with excitement. Not everyday you see a 6" Klev. Would rather like one myself

[IWatchStars]

There is a curious C5 model (F/6 rather than F/10) advertised here:

http://www.te-les-koop.nl/BekijkAdvertentie.php?key=19831

F/6 gives a larger FOV than the more usual F/10. Seems a good price for just the OTA. I see it comes with a 0.96" visual back, but it accepts the more common 1.25" visual back

Is a second-hand 5 inch cassegrain  without a mount(and eyepieces?) for €300 a better buy than a 5 inch Masutov for €519 euro with everything included? Also the information provided about the scope is very limited.

[AndyH]

Is a second-hand 5 inch cassegrain  without a mount(and eyepieces?) for €300 a better buy than a 5 inch Masutov for €519 euro with everything included? Also the information provided about the scope is very limited.

It has a huge central obstruction as can be seen in the pic. Would be horrible for solar system stuff any anything that needs good contrast, I'm afraid. Many moons ago, Meade made a F6.3(?) 8" Sct. It did not get a good reputation

Interesting though, as I didn't realise Celestron had made such a scope.

Andy.

[IWatchStars]

Hi.

There's a Tal 150K (6" F10.25 Klevtsov-Cassegrain) plus accessories and a motorised Tal mount for sale in Belgium, if you were willing to travel. Last time I looked it seems to be still available and priced at €400.

http://www.kapaza.be/nl/telescopen/tal-150k---klevzov-cassegran-150x1550mm-f10-3-95885390.htm

Just thought I'd throw that out there. No idea about the website it's on. Is it like Gumtree???

Andy.

I am a complete newbe when it comes to telescope and to me this scope looks like old junk. I it smart for someone with very basic knowledge to buy an old scope with probably little information about it on the internet?

[IWatchStars]

^

Also the mount doesn't look very portable.

[AndyH]

I am a complete newbe when it comes to telescope and to me this scope looks like old junk. I it smart for someone with very basic knowledge to buy an old scope with probably little information about it on the internet?

Opposite of old junk Russian tank like build. Should have lovely optics. 

[AndyH]

Lololol. It sure won't be super portable, that's for sure, though much lighter than my Tal 200K and mount.

[AndyH]

But it's the type of scope that you'd be best to have a bit of knowledge about or have someone with you who did etc. Same goes for any type of second hand scope purchasing to be honest.

Remember, take your time to decide on a scope and get what suits you. The skies won't go anywhere.

All the best,

Andy.

[nightfisher]

Item is in Antwerp, which, if my geography is correct, reasonably close to Rotterdam?

Anyway, I found the above thanks to a good old google images search. Perhaps it's only of interest to Tal fans like me, but I must admit I nearly wet myself with excitement. Not everyday you see a 6" Klev. Would rather like one myself

Andy, you need to post more often, quality post my friend 

[BGazing]

Thanks for the advice guys. I basically narrowed my options to the following two:

Celestron NexStar 127 SLT

• Maksutov-Cassegrain
• 127 millimeter mirror, 1500 millimeter focal length
• SkyAlign computerised goto
• RedDot finder
• 9 and 25 mm eypieces

Price: €519,-

Sky-Watcher Skymax-127 SynScan AZ GOTO

• Maksutov-Cassegrain
• 127 millimeter mirror, 1500 millimeter focal length
• SyncScan computerised goto
• 6x30 Finderscope
• 10 and 25 mm eypieces and a 2x barlow

Price €545,-

Basically very similair scopes.

These are the differences according to the reviews:

• Celestron had the better alignment software(SkyAlign). You don't have to know at which stars you are pointing with the Celestron one.
• The Sky-Watcher has a barlow included, but I don't think this is really an advantage because the max magnification with this scope is 254. The 25 mm eye piece + barlow will result in 120 times magnification which is less than the 10 mm that has a magnification of 150x without the barlow. the 10 mm with the barlow will result in 300x magnification which is more than the max magnification this scope can handle. Why do they even bother including it?
• The Celestron has a red dot finder and the Sky-Watcher has a 6x30 Finderscope, the red dot finder is more practical according to the reviews.
• The Celestron is a bit cheaper.

So the obvious choice would be the Celestron?

Have not tried the Star Align, but I do remember people here praising it as better than Synscan. Dunno how easy Skyalign is. With synscan, you have to know and align two stars. E.g. in summer sky you go for Arcturus and Altair. For me, that was easy peasy. If Skyalign is even better, bonus points.

Skywatcher barlow...is of mediocre quality at best. With both scopes you will probably upgrade your eyepieces very soon. SW 25mm is competent, I imagine the Celestron one is similar. Shorter focal length eyepieces appear to be worse.

Red dot vs finderscope...depends on your preference. A lot of people hate 6x30 finderscope. I hated it for about 30 minutes and ever since I am in peace. 

A bit cheaper is always important if quality is the same. I did not have the option of buying Celestron. Perhaps someone else might advise on whether there is any difference in build quality.

[IWatchStars]

I bought a Celestron C8 and am very pleased with it (bought it almost 2 decades ago from Ganymedes in Amstelveen). The images are largely comparable to a Dobsonian of the same aperture on planets (perhaps a touch less contrast), and the portability is great. On DSOs the main difference is the smaller FOV, but that is only a problem on a handful of objects (I have a little refractor for those).  The portability is so good I could even take it on holidays in a little Peugeot 106 with all the camping gear etc, to see the eclipse in 1999. Not something I could do as easily with an 8" dob. Imaging-wise, it is pretty good on planets and the moon, as can be seen below.

Just out of curiosity: how much did you pay for it 2 decades ago? Was it cheaper or more expensive than now(€1000,- @Ganymedes)?

[IWatchStars]

Ok I ordered and received the Celestron Nexstar 127 mak. The Setup was pretty easy and it is pretty decent quality. I do see why some people don't like the mount. It moves a lot when focusing.

I yet have to test it on the nightsky. In daylight for landobservation: The 25 mm eyepiece is pretty good but i'm a bit disappointed with the 9 mm eyepiece. It doesn't have the sharpness and clarity I was expecting.

I also tried the eyepieces of my Celestron Firstscope with the Nexstar and I was pleasantly suprised. The H20mm eyepiece of my firstscope was image-quality wise comparable to the 25 mm eyepiece I got with the Nexstar. The SR4mm eyepiece from my firstscope did give me somewhat sharp image at 375x magnification.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Just out of curiosity: how much did you pay for it 2 decades ago? Was it cheaper or more expensive than now(€1000,- @Ganymedes)?

It was DFL 3900 including the Vixen Great Polaris mount, single axis drive, and a very decent Plossl EP (26mm, Vixen made). Roughly the same ballpark as the current C8 on Advanced VX mount (which has GoTo, etc) if we do not take inflation into account. If we do take inflation into account, the current offer is a lot cheaper.

[Alien 13]

Maks are very eyepiece friendly (large F ratio) so you dont need to spend a fortune on them.

Alan

[IWatchStars]

It seems like the scope isn't protected against hitting the mount when the alt(altitude?) goes under 0 or over 90 degrees.

There is a skew limit option but that didnt have any effect when I had set it to 45 min and 60 max. It didnt stay within those boundries when I changed the alt using the directional buttons. Maby it only works when the scope is auto tracking an object?

This seems a risk of damaging the scope when I'm not paying any attention.