EQDirect ripoff or am I missing something ?

[Vox45]

I stumbled upon this:

http://www.tronisoft.com/shop/usb-serial-rj45-ftdi-cisco-console-networking.html

"This USB to Serial RJ45 Console / Rollover Cable is a much neater, space saving alternative as it combines the two devices that most network engineers, students, technicians use on most console ports. (A USB to RS232 Adapter & a DB9 to RJ45 Cable)"

The description seems to match what we do with EQdirect cables ... but at 9£ instead of 27£ !

Is there a catch ? Why do people still pay for EQDirect cables ?

[Dr_Ju_ju]

As long as the drivers work ok & the application recognises the device at the other end, there should be no issues...

[Vox45]

I see that the same cables exist for CISCO console ...

"Windows 7 and 8 will automatically install drivers, no need for additional drivers or install CD's (no CD included)"

Time to go grab a coffee with the network guys at the office

[Pompey Monkey]

Very similar, but for the NEQ6/AZ-EQ6, would this work?: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-TO-RS232-SERIAL-DB9-9-PIN-ADAPTER-CABLE-GPS-PDA-/400748245338

I will do some research...

Edit: well my first bit of research shows that my mount (AZ-EQ6GT) doen's have the serial port like the NEQ6! lol.

[Vox45]

For that price, I guess you can take the risk

I am still waiting for someone to come along and tell me why this would not work ... I am surprised by the price difference for such a simple item. Other threads give the instruction to do the same with a simple CAT5 cable and a 12£ PCB (involving a bit of soldering)

Why everything astro has to be 3x the price

[Zakalwe]

For that price, I guess you can take the risk

Except that if you get the TTL voltages incorrect you can blow the motherboard in the mount.

You can make them cheaper than £27....look in the EQMOD website for the plans. To be fair, the £27 will include the cost of supporting the retailer and manufacturer.

[Pompey Monkey]

For that price, I guess you can take the risk

I am still waiting for someone to come along and tell me why this would not work ... I am surprised by the price difference for such a simple item. Other threads (involving a bit of soldering) give the instruction to do the same with a simple CAT5 cable and a 12£ PCB

Why everything astro has to be 3x the price

Because the market bears it. 

[Pompey Monkey]

Except that if you get the TTL voltages incorrect you can blow the motherboard in the mount.

You can make them cheaper than £27....look in the EQMOD website for the plans. To be fair, the £27 will include the cost of supporting the retailer and manufacturer.

I agree the voltages have to be correct, but 3.3V is not TTL:

[Pompey Monkey]

I agree the voltages have to be correct, but 3.3V is not TTL:

Ignore that - I am getting confused between the hand controller and guide port. I'll go back to lurking and reading!

[Vox45]

Except that if you get the TTL voltages incorrect you can blow the motherboard in the mount.

You can make them cheaper than £27....look in the EQMOD website for the plans. To be fair, the £27 will include the cost of supporting the retailer and manufacturer.

I agree with supporting the retailer and manufacturer, but in that case the 9£ price also supports the retailer and manufacturer.

Because the market bears it. 

My point exactly. Again, we can see the extra price as supporting a very small market. I would hate to see something like FLO or any other Astro shop go out of business !

[Vox45]

"Ripoff" in the title of the thread may have been a bit harsh

[Zakalwe]

Pretty much everything is cheaper doing it DIY (though PCs seem to be bucking the trend....its hard to beat off the shelf prices for standard desktop stuff).

Plus, products like the one that you have linked weren't available a few years back...they had to be assembled from components.

You'll also need a 9 pin DIN plug if you use this on a NEQ6.

As with most things, mass production will slowly kill off the likes of Hitec Astro unless they keep innovating with new products.

[Vox45]

Except that if you get the TTL voltages incorrect you can blow the motherboard in the mount.

So I looked at the 9£ one datasheet:

-> RJ45 cable has an embeddedFTDI FT232R and ZT213 RS232 level shifter

-> FTDI FT232R: True 5V / 3.3V / 2.8V / 1.8V CMOS drive output and TTL input

What do you guys think ?

[Vox45]

Pretty much everything is cheaper doing it DIY (though PCs seem to be bucking the trend....its hard to beat off the shelf prices for standard desktop stuff).

Plus, products like the one that you have linked weren't available a few years back...they had to be assembled from components.

You'll also need a 9 pin DIN plug if you use this on a NEQ6.

As with most things, mass production will slowly kill off the likes of Hitec Astro unless they keep innovating with new products.

If we all chip in I can get 600 of those cables for cheap on AliBaba

[Tinker1947]

This is the EQMod DIY option......

http://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/reqindex.html

[Scott]

I don't know if it does exactly the same thing or not. What I do know, is that for electronic neandertals such as myself, spending an extra £14 with the knowledge that it was designed with my £1k mount in mind is a cost I'm more than happy to bare. I'd hate to save peanuts only to have to replace a circuit board. Of course for those that are more technically minded, go for it, but even though I value the opinion of the vast majority of members, there are very few I'd implicitly trust when it comes to my hard earned

[Vox45]

I don't know if it does exactly the same thing or not. What I do know, is that for electronic neandertals such as myself, spending an extra £14 with the knowledge that it was designed with my £1k mount in mind is a cost I'm more than happy to bare. I'd hate to save peanuts only to have to replace a circuit board. Of course for those that are more technically minded, go for it, but even though I value the opinion of the vast majority of members, there are very few I'd implicitly trust when it comes to my hard earned

I can see where you come from and understand your point of view. In this case, those cables are used for CISCO routers that are more expensive than any mount we use

I guess this will ever be an open debate (DIY vs buy from vendor) but in my case it is the fact that such a simple item is sold for such a high price, it's the sums of all the parts that in the end makes this an expensive hobby and I would prefer using that money for things that I cannot make myself .... EPs for exemple

[Scott]

I can see where you come from and understand your point of view. In this case, those cables are used for CISCO routers that are more expensive than any mount we use

I guess this will ever be an open debate (DIY vs buy from vendor) but in my case it is the fact that such a simple item is sold for such a high price, it's the sums of all the parts that in the end makes this an expensive hobby and I would prefer using that money for things that I cannot make myself .... EPs for exemple

Your first line demonstrates my point perfectly . I'm unsure even as to which language youare using .

I do understand that its always nice to save a penny or two. I just prefer peace of mind over penies in my pocket.

On the other hand, if it wasn't forfolk such as yourself, new innovations would be the domain of the manufacturer so keep it up

[Vox45]

My DIY experience does not go as far as Gina's or others on the forum, if it involves a soldering iron or any schematics I am done for !

And I agree that anything electrical should be left to those who understand at the very least the difference between volts and amps

"I just prefer peace of mind over penies in my pocket" I agree with that statement, although I misread penies the first time and it got me confused

[Lonestar70]

Hi Guy's,

It may be a lot cheaper, however, be very aware that this cable may damage your mount... The FTDI FT232R chip alone would be fine which is what the EQ Direct cable does (it only outputs 0V to + 5v)... however this cable is combined with a ZT213 RS232 level converter... this bit will increase your TX output voltages to +/- 12v ... which may well fry your mounts input... it also expects it's RX input to be in the range +/- 25v (both of these voltage levels are within the true RS232 voltage levels range).

See attached Data Sheet for the ZT 2xx range.

Most Skywatcher and Celestron mounts are +5v max levels for input and output signals.

The mount connection type is more usually RJ-11 or a DB9... NOT RJ45... the pinout of these is not the same as the cable you are looking at... Check your SYNSCAN manual, or your mount's equiv.

Be Safe... not sorry.

Best regards.

Sandy.

ZT230E_ds.pdf

[Stub Mandrel]

The FTDI chips that are used almost universally in these things are cheap as chips (ho ho) in bulk. The prices for these cables are excessive even on ebay.

It is inexplicable why people keep building high-end gadgets with RS232 in them when they could add an FTDI chip inside and have a direct UDB connection with no driver needed. Most of the cost of the chip would be saved by not having to put in an RS232 interface.

It's not hard, I've done this on some of my own projects - the easy coding and accessibility of RS232 with the simplicity of a USB lead connection.

[Vox45]

Hi Guy's,

It may be a lot cheaper, however, be very aware that this cable may damage your mount... The FTDI FT232R chip alone would be fine which is what the EQ Direct cable does (it only outputs 0V to + 5v)... however this cable is combined with a ZT213 RS232 level converter... this bit will increase your TX output voltages to +/- 12v ... which may well fry your mounts input... it also expects it's RX input to be in the range +/- 25v (both of these voltage levels are within the true RS232 voltage levels range).

See attached Data Sheet for the ZT 2xx range.

Most Skywatcher and Celestron mounts are +5v max levels for input and output signals.

The mount connection type is more usually RJ-11 or a DB9... NOT RJ45... the pinout of these is not the same as the cable you are looking at... Check your SYNSCAN manual, or your mount's equiv.

Be Safe... not sorry.

Best regards.

Sandy.

Good catch as I had looked at the FTDI FT232R (True 5V / 3.3V / 2.8V / 1.8V CMOS drive output and TTL input) but not yet at the ZT213 RS232 level converter...

Maybe I should just go for the FTDI FT232R chip and use a CAT5 patch cable. On an HEQ5 mount the port the handset connects to is an RJ45 jack I reckon...

[Lonestar70]

Very similar, but for the NEQ6/AZ-EQ6, would this work?: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/USB-2-0-TO-RS232-SERIAL-DB9-9-PIN-ADAPTER-CABLE-GPS-PDA-/400748245338

I will do some research...

Edit: well my first bit of research shows that my mount (AZ-EQ6GT) doen's have the serial port like the NEQ6! lol.

Even the NEQ6 does not have a true serial port.

The only thing in common is the use of a DB9 connector... this does not mean it is an RS232 port and is also wired differently...it also has very different voltage tolerance.

Sadly it is a mistake a good few users have made... with the inevitable high cost of replacing their mounts motherboard.

Always check your manual... don't assume that becouse it looks the same, that it is the same.

Keep Happy.

Sandy.

[Lonestar70]

Maybe I should just go for the FTDI FT232R chip and use a CAT5 patch cable. On an HEQ5 mount the port the handset connects to is an RJ45 jack I reckon...

OOps...My Apologies... yes you are correct, I was thinking of the handset connection to the PC serial port, which is RJ-11.

Whilst it is in fact an RJ45... I am not sure the cable connections are the same... I am inclined to believe the mount needs a straight through connection rather than the cross-over consol type.

The schematic on ASCOM should show the correct conections for this.

Good luck.

Sandy.

[Vox45]

Yes, crimping an RJ45 after sorting out the connection is the easy part I intended to do this anyway as I want a really short cable to connect to the powered USB hub

I found this website explaining how to connect to a knitting machine ! yes ... knitting machine Every hobby has its DIY crowd it seems