Solar Observing in Ha with an 80ED?

[Zakalwe]

The biggest disadvantage of the Daystar design is that the Etalon is heated.  It takes about 10 minutes for the thing to heat. Then when you want to change the bandpass you have to wait for a couple of minutes for it to settle.

The Lunt pressure tuner is far more elegant. It varies the bandpass by compressing the air inside a sealed chamber which holds the Etalon. This means that the change is instantaneous, which allows you to "surf" the wavelength and see different details. A slight tweak will bring material that is slightly blue-shifted as it is moving towards you at speed. Another tweak brings material that is in the red wing of the bandpass into view. It's an absolutely delightful system to use. Plus, I simply love the elegance of the design.....who could not be impressed by the idea of compressing ordinary air to change it's refractive index to allow these subtle details to be viewed?

[Stu]

The biggest disadvantage of the Daystar design is that the Etalon is heated.  It takes about 10 minutes for the thing to heat. Then when you want to change the bandpass you have to wait for a couple of minutes for it to settle.

 

The Lunt pressure tuner is far more elegant. It varies the bandpass by compressing the air inside a sealed chamber which holds the Etalon. This means that the change is instantaneous, which allows you to "surf" the wavelength and see different details. A slight tweak will bring material that is slightly blue-shifted as it is moving towards you at speed. Another tweak brings material that is in the red wing of the bandpass into view. It's an absolutely delightful system to use. Plus, I simply love the elegance of the design.....who could not be impressed by the idea of compressing ordinary air to change it's refractive index to allow these subtle details to be viewed?

I do agree, I love the engineering of the Lunt scopes, they look lovely and I bet they are very nice to handle.

The Quark is a compromise, no doubt about that at all, but it gives me views I could not afford in other ways so it works for me.

I used to enjoy varying the etalon on the PST as you describe to pick out the different parts of the prominences, great fun

[Moonshane]

I went the pst mod route but luckily managed to get all the bits used. I now have a dedicated Tal based 100mm ha a scope which provides excellent detail for about £800. If I can add a 10mm blocking filter I can get full Disk too

[Pig]

It is nice to be able to get both the full disc and close up views and no doubt all 3 methods I have come across are great for observing the sun in Ha.

As Stu states the Lunt's are a very beautiful, well thought out engineered scopes.

I just feel the Quark opens the door to people that may not otherwise be able to afford the larger aperture solar viewing experience  I am not sure how the views compare to the larger aperture Lunt's as I have only observed through a 60mm

[Stu]

I looked through a doubled stacked SolarMax 90 at SGLX. The views were stunning in all respects. Full disk, amazing contrast and resolution on the surface detail, plus lovely prominences.

It was certainly a major step up in anything I've used before, but a huge step up in cost too.

[Snaxmuppet]

What great help you lot give. Thanks. Lots to think about.

From what you have said and what I have read elsewhere the Lunt would be my preferred option... then it probably would be for anyone if they had the cash. The question then is am I prepared to spend that amount of monty on a PST?

I think I would like to have the opportunity to see one and look through one before I shelled out that much extra on solar observing. I have never looked at the sun in Ha and only seen pics. I will ask at my society and see if anyone has one locally that I could take a look at.

[Zakalwe]

 The Quark is a compromise, no doubt about that at all, but it gives me views I could not afford in other ways so it works for me.

Every engineering solution is a compromise to greater or lesser extents. I'm not knocking the Quark in the least....what it does (in the one session that I've been able to test it in) is simply amazing.  For me, it gives me access to data that i just can't gather with my Lunt- the 60mm aperture of the Lunt is limiting where I can take my imaging to. The Quark gives me the spicule detail that I am after and the detail in active regions is breath-taking.

I just feel the Quark opens the door to people that may not otherwise be able to afford the larger aperture solar viewing experience  I am not sure how the views compare to the larger aperture Lunt's as I have only observed through a 60mm

I'd expect the Lunt to knock it out of the park, simply as the larger Lunts will have larger Etalons and blocking filters. At some point, the Etalon and BF size will become the limiting factor. however, a 100mm Lunt with 34mm blocking filter costs £6400, so I should expect that it would offer superior views.

I agree vigorously that the introduction of the Quark has opened more people up to viewing our local star, which can only be a good thing! Lunt's decision to offer the 50mm pressure tuned solarscope at a similar price means that we now have two great options occupying the middle ground. in the past, there was a heck of a jump between the PST at £500-600 and the 60mm Lunts at £2K

What great help you lot give. Thanks. Lots to think about.

From what you have said and what I have read elsewhere the Lunt would be my preferred option... then it probably would be for anyone if they had the cash. The question then is am I prepared to spend that amount of monty on a PST?

I think I would like to have the opportunity to see one and look through one before I shelled out that much extra on solar observing. I have never looked at the sun in Ha and only seen pics. I will ask at my society and see if anyone has one locally that I could take a look at.

Good idea. one thing to watch out for is that it takes a bit of time to train your eye to pick out the details. on first glance the view can appear uninspiring simply because our visual systems aren't used to viewing in a single colour. Give it time and the view improves with time at the eyepiece.

[Pig]

There is a secondhand Lunt 60mm with a B1200 pressure tuned version on ABS for around £1300, this will be very hard to beat on price. Will it compare with the Quark ? I only had a B600 blocking filter so I couldn't say for sure.  My guess would be not unless it is double stacked and that's many hundreds more if not even another £1K.

Solar is very enjoyable and rewarding but boy can it get expensive....

[Al.Grant]

I have a Quark (Chromosphere) on order and expecting it within the next week or so .....  once here it will be used with a UV/IR blocking filter on my Equinox 80  (one that used to belong to Zalalwe!    ).

I was fully aware of the requirement for heating the Etalon and therefore need for a power source and have just ordered a 30ah solar powered battery pack for it. 

Al

[Luke]

Congrats, Al! I really like using a battery pack, it's very little hassle and like right now, I have had to take the Quark indoors as it's raining outside. The Quark is still on and good to go, I've just bought it inside with the battery. Likewise sometimes I plug the Quark in while I am indoors before going out. I have three thick strips of Velcro on the battery and on either side of my goto mount and run the cable along the scope out of the way.

I forgot to say, even if I had the funds for a Lunt 100 0.5A (double stacked) with Feathertouch focuser (about £8k or so I think last time I checked) I might still go Quark because of the value for money, both great options either way. PST mods give some superb results, I have not looked through one yet but have seen some top notch images. PST mod was not for me because of my useless modding skills. I am a veteran of two failed easy peasy DSLR mods   I shall leave solar modding well alone

[Al.Grant]

Congrats, Al! I really like using a battery pack, it's very little hassle and like right now, I have had to take the Quark indoors as it's raining outside. The Quark is still on and good to go, I've just bought it inside with the battery. Likewise sometimes I plug the Quark in while I am indoors before going out. I have three thick strips of Velcro on the battery and on either side of my goto mount and run the cable along the scope out of the way.

I forgot to say, even if I had the funds for a Lunt 100 0.5A (double stacked) with Feathertouch focuser (about £8k or so I think last time I checked) I might still go Quark because of the value for money, both great options either way. PST mods give some superb results, I have not looked through one yet but have seen some top notch images. PST mod was not for me because of my useless modding skills. I am a veteran of two failed easy peasy DSLR mods   I shall leave solar modding well alone

Budget was also a consideration for me, but it wasn't the only thing I took into account.

I looked at lots of images using similar kit to that which I'll be using and also asked around for various opinions.

On twitter I asked Nick Howes how if he had any thought on how an Equinox 80 + Quark would compare to either an LS50 or LS60 (basic model) and his response was "Quark every time ...."

https://twitter.com/NickAstronomer/status/573149640838787072

As I'm also looking at a CCD camera the savings on £££ along with the performance of the Quark won the day for me!

Al

[Zakalwe]

I use this little battery pack for the Quark:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00OJXVDCS?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00

The build quality appears really good and it has plenty of capacity.

[Snaxmuppet]

If I did go the Quark route my 80ED is 600mm so I won't get full disc. Pig, what 400mm scope did you go for? I can't see to find anything online.

I do agree... for under £1000 the Quark does look great value.

[Stu]

If I did go the Quark route my 80ED is 600mm so I won't get full disc. Pig, what 400mm scope did you go for? I can't see to find anything online.

I do agree... for under £1000 the Quark does look great value.

Shaun has a Skywatcher Esprit 80mm which is an f5, 400mm triplet. Very nice.

You do need to be aware of the focal length you are operating at though. In theory f29 or 30 overall is optimum for surface contrast. With the x4.3 Barlow in the Quark, that means a scope of between f6.5 and f7.

I used a x0.8 focal reducer on my TV85 to bring it down to 480mm focal length and I do think the surface detail is less punchy. Using it. You do get full disk views though, but I e generally come to the conclusion that I prefer the detail and contrast at higher focal lengths. If I want full disk I use my Tak 60 which is f5.9 and gives surprisingly good results for one so small

[Pig]

Al,

The Quark works great with my Equinox 80mm and some great detail is achievable. I tend to keep it tuned in the centre position or one click either side.

Let us know how you get on with your first light

[Zakalwe]

You could use a 1.25" focal reducer screwed onto the camera nosepiece. These can be bought for about £20.

[Pig]

Snax,  I went for the 80mm Esprit Triplet. If you type in 80mm triplet in google there are quite a few. I also have a longer term plan to do some imaging and I thought this option would be the best option all round.

I knew I would miss the full disc view having became accustomed to it, I don't think it would have bothered  me had I not seen it prior to buying the Quark

[Pig]

Stu is right about "less punchy" at F5 but it is still a huge improvement over the Dedicated 60mm scope  

However a few eyepieces I own have compensated me for this, one is an extremely expensive zoom, one is a 25mm costing about £100 and the cheapest at 40mm and cost £45 is pretty darn good  (it reduces the magnification which always helps with contrast)

[Snaxmuppet]

Thanks guys.

[Al.Grant]

Al,

The Quark works great with my Equinox 80mm and some great detail is achievable. I tend to keep it tuned in the centre position or one click either side.

Let us know how you get on with your first light

Cheers,

I've seen a few people saying how they've not needed to tune away from the centre position.

Looking forward to it turning up ..........  just as we get weeks of cloudy skies! 

[Al.Grant]

Well at long last my Quark has arrived ..... so you can all kiss goodbye to any chance of clear, sunny skies!

Now I just need some time off when the sun's shining, rather than today when I'm working and it's a nice sunny day outside.

[Pig]

Great news ... Al ... you may have been blessed with patchy skies so some viewing might be possible.

[Snaxmuppet]

Having thought about everyone's comments (thanks) a bit more I can't help feeling that I made a bit of an error getting my Evostar 80ED as my first AP scope. It wasn't the wrong decision if I were just doing astrophotography but I feel that it isn't the scope I would have gone for initially had I put solar observing and photography into the mix a couple of months ago.

Had I been making my first scope purchase today I would have got the Esprit 80 triplet... great AP scope and a sensible scope for solar using a Quark. I feel a little disappointed I went for the Evostar 80ED now. C'est la vie. I have it now. I could always sell the Evostar 80ED and replace it with the Esprit 80 I suppose but that does seem a little foolish given that I haven't even had a chance to use the new Evostar 80ED yet!

So my next question is this... can I get full disc solar imaging with my Evostar 80ED at all? It is 600mm and f/7.5 (reducing to 510mm and f/6.4 with the x0.85 focal reducer which I already have)? I don't think I would get a full disc with the Quark would I? What about if I removed the x0.85 reducer and added a 1.25" x0.5 focal reducer before the Quark? That would give me an effective 300mm wouldn't it? What would that do to the f number? Won't that just halve giving f/3.75 which is probably way to fast for the Quark... I still feel confused!

[Stu]

It can get pretty confusing!

In my experience, putting a x0.5 FR before the Quark will give you a full disk but with unsatisfactory results. I think the contrast will be very low due to the F3.75 focal ratio.

I don't think you will easily get to full disk views with the ED80. With the x0.85 FR you should get close but you should be careful to protect the reducer as it will be nearer the focal point and prone to overheating. At least you need a UV/IR cut filter ahead of it, ideally a D-ERF.

Whilst full disk views are nice, I've found that you get better contrast and detail by running at closer to the optimum f29 (just under f7 x the 4.3 Barlow of the Quark).

I normally use a 32mm plossl and often put the x0.5mm reducer on the eyepiece barrel. This gives you very nice contrasts views by keeping the mag down, although it doesn't help the fov because it is after the Quark etalon which is the limiting factor.

[Snaxmuppet]

Thanks. Yes... I thought that normal astrophotography was technical but this takes it all to another level.

I guess there is no easy answer to this one other than getting another (or replacement), shorter focal length scope or a dedicated PST depending on which way I want to go. The Quark is nice though in that I could use it on any refractor I get (with ERF filter above 80mm I understand).

I tend to flip from one decision to another over all this... one minute feeling that the Quark is the way with my existing 80ED... then I feel I should replace the Evostar 80ED with a Esprit 80 triplet and a Quark... then feel if I am doing that then wouldn't I be better off with a PST like the Lunt 60 which I could later double stack... then I feel that as I can't make up my mind I shouldn't do anything at all!!!!! AAAGH!

I am screwing myself up in a way because I want full disc imaging... that seems to be the sticking point with me because if I were to accept that I can't have full disc imaging but still want to start solar Ha imaging then the sensible option seems to be to just get a Quark with my current Evostar 80ED set up and upgrade later.