Solar Observing in Ha with an 80ED?

[Snaxmuppet]

I have a Evostar 80ED Pro with a AZ-EQ5 mount which I would like to use for solar Ha photography.

What is the best way to do this safely? Are there Ha solar filters I can get for the 80ED?

[Zakalwe]

Theres a couple of choice. Either an Etalon front mounted and a blocking filter at the rear. About £1500

http://www.tringastro.co.uk/lunt-50mm-ha-etalon-filter-system-with-b600-blocking-filter-for-2-focuser-1444-p.asp

Or a Quark filter and UV/IR filter. £850 for the Quark and another £85 for the UV/IR filter.

http://www.365astronomy.com/DayStar-QUARK-H-Alpha-Eyepiece-CHROMOSPHERE-Version.html

[Zakalwe]

You'd also need a filter cell to securely mount the Etalon on the front objective if you opted for the Lunt solution.

[kirkster501]

I am new to this - why spend all that money?  Why not just get a Lunt scope?  Interested because I too have a Ed80.

[Merlin66]

Using an external etalon and blocking filter allows you to use any suitable telescope....

I use an SM60 etalon (single and double stacked)on an ED80, works very well. No issues, no drama.

[Snaxmuppet]

I am new to this - why spend all that money?  Why not just get a Lunt scope?  Interested because I too have a Ed80.

Good question... I wondered if getting a PST was the better option for the price. Not looked at the options for a PST yet but wouldn't be against the idea. It is all about the money for me. I was thinking about using the 80ED simply to cut down on the amount I might have to spend to get good results in Ha.

[Zakalwe]

I am new to this - why spend all that money?  Why not just get a Lunt scope?  Interested because I too have a Ed80.

The Lunt L50? It's what I would do, to be honest, compared to buying an external etalon and blocking filter.

The Quark gives a much closer in view, so they aren't totally comparable.

I guess that the OP may have thought that a filter was available similar to a white light filter?

[ecuador]

I am new to this - why spend all that money?  Why not just get a Lunt scope?  Interested because I too have a Ed80.

I suspect the OP asked because he expected something cost-effective compared to a Lunt etc. But it is not that cost-effective to convert a telescope to Ha. Except if you do more work (instead of a front-aperture filter you go for a smaller one in the tube etc), but that is beyond the scope of what was asked...

[Zakalwe]

instead of a front-aperture filter you go for a smaller one in the tube etc

To do that you'd need to put a lens in front of the Etalon to make the rays parallel as they enter the Etalon, and then a converging lens at the rear. Difficult and expensive.

Better to buy a Quark.

[Stu]

I am new to this - why spend all that money? Why not just get a Lunt scope? Interested because I too have a Ed80.

I suspect the OP asked because he expected something cost-effective compared to a Lunt etc. But it is not that cost-effective to convert a telescope to Ha. Except if you do more work (instead of a front-aperture filter you go for a smaller one in the tube etc), but that is beyond the scope of what was asked...

Using a Quark is a cost effective option. In this case it would give you an 80mm Ha scope with lovely views. The only downside is the high focal length (due to the x4.3 Barlow in the Quark), meaning you wouldn't get full disk in the ED80.

Using a 60mm f5.9 scope I get lovely full disk views which I believe would compare with a Lunt 60, certainly they are significantly better than a good PST

[Gazabone]

I have a PST and do like it but had a look through a Lunt 60 a few weeks ago and prefer it.....started saving my pennies!

[Peter Drew]

Get a Quark and put it on your Startravel 102, better resolution and cheaper than a Lunt 60 and you still have your PST for grab and go.  

[Snaxmuppet]

I feel that adapting my 80ED for Ha solar is not the simple "add a filter and go" that I hoped it might have been and in any case, having looked at the capabilities of a decent PST, like say the Lunt 60, I feel that if I were spending £1000-1500 on a Quark + attachments then I would prefer to spend a bit more and get the Lunt.

So, still thinking about my options... thanks

[ecuador]

To do that you'd need to put a lens in front of the Etalon to make the rays parallel as they enter the Etalon, and then a converging lens at the rear. Difficult and expensive.

Better to buy a Quark.

Well, no, as far as I know if you want to use the small Etalon of the PST on a large refractor, you only need the appropriate ERF filter and the correct distances. So that is indeed a cost effective way of making a larger solar scope from a PST. Obviously it needs the related experience, and it is still not a cheaper way to get an Ha telescope, as you still need at least a PST. But you can make e.g. a 120mm scope much cheaper than a Lunt etc equivalent would be.

[Zakalwe]

Well, no, as far as I know if you want to use the small Etalon of the PST on a large refractor, you only need the appropriate ERF filter and the correct distances. So that is indeed a cost effective way of making a larger solar scope from a PST. Obviously it needs the related experience, and it is still not a cheaper way to get an Ha telescope, as you still need at least a PST. But you can make e.g. a 120mm scope much cheaper than a Lunt etc equivalent would be.

The PST includes the necessary collimating lenses to change the beam into a parallel beam and then back again.  If you wanted to mount a normal Etalon (such is used for double-stacking or in front of an objective0 then you'd have to add the collimating lenses. An Etalon will only work if the beam is collimated. The reason why it works in front of an objective is that the Sun's rays are collimated (or very nearly so at >f100). if you just put the Etalon inside the tube then the light entering the Etalon would be converging and it wouldn't work.

[Merlin66]

Getting a bit OT....

I've been involved in PST mods since the beginning.....

What I'm finding nowadays is that the cost of a good ERF, a suitable f10 donor scope and the minimum nosepiece adaptor to achieve a Stage 1 mod is getting expensive!!

Moving to the better Stage 2 mod involves even more costs to obtain a suitable blocking filter....

All in all, no longer the cheap option it used to be.

[Zakalwe]

Getting a bit OT....

I've been involved in PST mods since the beginning.....

What I'm finding nowadays is that the cost of a good ERF, a suitable f10 donor scope and the minimum nosepiece adaptor to achieve a Stage 1 mod is getting expensive!!

Moving to the better Stage 2 mod involves even more costs to obtain a suitable blocking filter....

All in all, no longer the cheap option it used to be.

Is that because of the Quarks Ken?  They appear to be a bit of a game changer.

[Luke]

As you have an 80mm scope I would have thought your most cost effective way would be to use a Quark. It's pretty simple to adapt your scope to it. It should give a Lunt 80 a run for its money at significantly less cost.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Interesting thread. I also like Snaxmuppet thought that there would be a cheap(ish) cost effective Ha filter that can be fitted as simple as any other filter can be. When i bought my Hershel wedge, i was still hoping that such a filter existed. If i had thought longer about it before buying the HW, a PST would have been a nice choice for not much more then i spent on my wedge and solar filters. However, having seen lots of images posted in the solar imaging (yes, your images Zakalwe) using the Quark............i'm pretty blown away with the results and if i was starting out on solar observing and had the cash at hand..............i think i'd have to go with the Quark.

Q: When using the Quark just for observing, do you need to hook it up to a laptop etc, or is that just for when imaging. I'm guessing thats just for imaging.

[Stu]

Paul, you just need power for the Quark, you look into the eyepiece in the same way as a PST or Lunt etc

Worth noting that the comparison at the beginning of this thread is a 50mm Lunt front mounted etalon and blocking filter for £1500, vs an 80mm Ha scope with the Quark for around £1k including filter etc. no competition for me

[Luke]

Paul the Quark does not need to be hooked up to a laptop, that is just for imaging. It does need a power supply and about ten minutes to warm up. That sounds like a bit of hassle though in practice I find you just get used to it, e.g. I tend to set up my gear before the sun clears the trees, or the gap in the clouds arrive. A dedicated h-alpha scope has the advantages of no warm up time and has no integrated barlow so allows lower power viewing. The big disadvantage of the dedicated h-a scopes is that they get very expensive fast as you move up in aperture.

For me it's not really Quark versus Lunt 50 or 60, it's more just a question of affordable aperture. I could not afford a Lunt 100 so I went Quark.

[Peter Drew]

Ha mods, particularly PST based are still cost effective in the larger sizes. I have a 150mm version with a F10 Istar objective, internal 110mm Baader ERF and Coronado BF15. The Istar objective was new but the other items were s/h but in as new condition, overall cost just over £1500. Compare that to a Lunt 152mm outlay. The only cons of the system for visual are a sweetspot and a rather hefty telescope.  

[Pig]

I can only agree with the others who think the Quark route would be the better option, I have owned a Lunt 60 and the views through your ED 80 will be a lot better for half the amount of cash. My 80mm Equinox only has a focal length of 500mm and I just about achieve a full disc with a 40mm eyepiece.

I have since bought a second 80mm scope with a focal length of 400mm and can easily achieve a full disc (even with a 23mm eyepiece) and I get much greater detail than the Lunt.

Even with the extra cost of  a second scope the Quark option is still cheaper than a Lunt 60mm. In addition I also have a great scope for non solar observing and it is tailor made for AP should you want to go down that route as mentioned in your initial post.

Having to wait for the Quark to heat up has not affected my opportunity to view the Sun as yet. But it does remain the only meaningful disadvantage compared to a dedicated solar scope I can think of

[LukeSkywatcher]

Paul the Quark does not need to be hooked up to a laptop, that is just for imaging. It does need a power supply and about ten minutes to warm up. That sounds like a bit of hassle though in practice I find you just get used to it, e.g. I tend to set up my gear before the sun clears the trees, or the gap in the clouds arrive. A dedicated h-alpha scope has the advantages of no warm up time and has no integrated barlow so allows lower power viewing. The big disadvantage of the dedicated h-a scopes is that they get very expensive fast as you move up in aperture.

For me it's not really Quark versus Lunt 50 or 60, it's more just a question of affordable aperture. I could not afford a Lunt 100 so I went Quark.

So, for observing purposes, the Quark only needs to be plugged in to the mains?. For imaging, as i suspected.............it needs to be plugged into a laptop etc via USB.

Not like i'm going to rush out and buy one, but in  the future i may consider one because i'd love to do Ha observing/imaging.

[Pig]

From a heating point of view a laptop will not suffice for the Quark due to the power required. A portable battery pack can also be used for visual.