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Docter 12.5mm on Jupiter

jetstream

By jetstream
in Discussions - Eyepieces

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jetstream

jetstream

Posted
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Sometimes things just don't make sense to me... A widefield EP with lots of ER goes and beats my LZ, Tak ortho, Ethos 10mm and the BCO's - at high mag-about 240x or so with the VIP.

Obviously there are a couple of really wide AFOV EP in the line up and are pretty good, but the Doc came out ahead under VG seeing tonight.

This really surprises me espc barlowing it this high- and it would have taken more mag but I ran out of spacers....

AND the coatings look like this...

post-30641-0-80178400-1428730681_thumb.j

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ronin

ronin

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It could make sense, that particular eyepiece just happens to match tne characteristics of the scope and works naturally better with it. Not by specific intention but chance.

The optics and the mechanics all have tolerances and whichever way thee have come out on that eyepiece matches that scope. So you end up with performance that you did not expect.

The other aspect is that whatever the eyepiece does you like, so it seems better, it produces an image to you that hits your sweet spot.

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Stu

Stu

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Is it one you don't use very often Gerry? Just wondering if it was just a particular set of sky conditions which suited it.....or have you discovered a 'new' eyepiece we should all be chasing after? [emoji6]

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jetstream

jetstream

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I think that is it in a nutshell Alan and I also think Ronin's thoughts are applicable- it may be the combination that works so well and as Stu says the sky conditions are a huge factor. Whatever the case may be it works. The role the VIP itself can't be ignored either- this barlow can be a big asset for a lot of eyepieces.

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jetstream

jetstream

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Is it one you don't use very often Gerry? Just wondering if it was just a particular set of sky conditions which suited it.....or have you discovered a 'new' eyepiece we should all be chasing after? [emoji6]

No discovery on my part Stu!

I was told by some experienced EP owners before the purchase that it was very good and it turns out they are right. It is more comfortable than my Ethos and to my eyes offers a better planetary/lunar view. This is my personal opinion though and others may be different. It must be the combination of the whole optical train that is working together to produce these results.

I have been using the Docter extensively since its purchase and is the one I grab first other than for large nebs, it is very good on DSO too. Last night whatever came together did and gave unbeatable views... and its not the first time...

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jetstream

jetstream

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I thought that these had something of a cult status across the pond ??

Oh. Newbie question. What is a VIP?

Paul

Hi Paul, the Baader VIP is their modular barlow with a Zeiss element. You can use spacers to change the barlow range and mag is also dependent on the EP's field stop location. I love this thing. It does not degrade the view in any EP I own (ER placement considered) and offers better views a lot of the time, to my eyes.

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John

John

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I'm not entirely surprised. Under superb conditions last year I found Powermated Ethos 8mm and 6mm were producing better views of the lunar surface than a number of decent orthos I tried. Thats 13 lens elements verses 4.

I enquired on CN about how a Docter 12.5 might compare with a 13mm Ethos and got sort of non-committal responses from those that had compared them. Perhaps it's the conditions that are the "kingmaker" ? :smiley:

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jetstream

jetstream

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I believe your right John, when comparing EP's of this level (including the BCO's) seeing does allow the nuances of better EP's to shine though. Right now on solar WL (great seeing) the Doc is outperforming my LZ @ 144x, I'm going to config the VIP for more in a bit. The granulation, faculae, plage etc is "right in your face" and with depth to them.

As the VX10 cooled last night one peek with the Doc and my 3 "hvy hitters" came out, 10BCO,LZ,Doc all with the VIP. I have observed Jupiter for many many hours this season and there are not too many surprises now.... last night gave me one though, it was the color richness and very fine detail that grabbed my attention.

I must say that all my EP's performed well and I don't want to imply they didn't. If there is interest in any further Docter 12.5 UWA reports I may open another thread or two.

With my VX10 and my favorite EP's I believe that I'm not optically limited, but seeing limited and I would really like to have the opportunity to define the limits of this scope, this scope keeps surprising me with its views. I figured with some of the good seeing here recently that my scope limit has been reached... I'm not so sure again.

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YKSE

YKSE

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That's not a bad result at all with these quality eyepieces :smiley:  Looking forward for more comparo reports from you.

It could make sense, that particular eyepiece just happens to match tne characteristics of the scope and works naturally better with it. Not by specific intention but chance.

Since you've recommended BST so heartedly, can we assume that BSTs work very well with sub 80mm refractors? I'm looking forward to read your comparo of BST vs your other eyepieces. :smiley:

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jetstream

jetstream

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Yes that's the one I have Stu. It is a compact but heavy eyepiece, very solid and performs really well. This EP, if I can barlow it to 8mm-10mm focal length may be the only EP that could beat the 10E on galaxies. It is close as it is, with lower mag and it is better on DSO than the 10BCO, which is hard to do in itself. I'll report the distortions that the Doc shows in comparison to some others down the road. The coatings are strange to say the least and work extremely well. They stay black when viewing from the bottom, but can change appearances when looking at the eyelens.

post-30641-0-39330300-1428777811_thumb.j

post-30641-0-26209900-1428777952_thumb.j

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jetstream

jetstream

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I truly believe that Televue can design and produce the finest eyepieces possible, the Ethos are in a league of their own and the Delos, at their low cost, are incredible at any price.

I wish Docter made more FL's too John and I also wish Televue would make a 30mm Ethos :smiley: And then there's the BCO's that chug alongside these big hunks of glass, always there in the running...

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John

John

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On a more practical matter Gerry, where does the Docter 12.5mm come to focus ?. Is it anywhere near the Ethos 13 or any of the other eyepieces that you have  compared it with ?

Thanks :smiley:

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Stu

Stu

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Yes that's the one I have Stu. It is a compact but heavy eyepiece, very solid and performs really well. This EP, if I can barlow it to 8mm-10mm focal length may be the only EP that could beat the 10E on galaxies. It is close as it is, with lower mag and it is better on DSO than the 10BCO, which is hard to do in itself. I'll report the distortions that the Doc shows in comparison to some others down the road. The coatings are strange to say the least and work extremely well. They stay black when viewing from the bottom, but can change appearances when looking at the eyelens.

Thanks Gerry. So it's still in production, and obtainable at a price at least.

I have a Zeiss Abbe barlow which would work very well with it, and in theory will allow up to x4 without any degradation.

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jetstream

jetstream

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On a more practical matter Gerry, where does the Docter 12.5mm come to focus ?. Is it anywhere near the Ethos 13 or any of the other eyepieces that you have  compared it with ?

Thanks :smiley:

I will compare it to the other EP's and report back John, most likely tonight. The 12.5mm works well with a 1.25" adapter which then places the focal point in line with many others. In 2" mode the EP needs to be racked out quite a bit, which gave me trouble at first. I collimated the dob so that my planetary EP's were racked out enough so that the drawtube doesn't intrude the lightpath. The VIP pushes the focus point all over the place in different configs though.

I have it set up well but kind of forget which EP focuses where :embarrassed: Its in my 120ED's focuser atm and will check it and in the VX10 tonight.

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YKSE

YKSE

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On a more practical matter Gerry, where does the Docter 12.5mm come to focus ?. Is it anywhere near the Ethos 13 or any of the other eyepieces that you have  compared it with ?

Thanks :smiley:

According to Tammy's measurement (his 2" to 1.25" reducer is flushed with the diagonal), Docter in 1.25" mode focus 1mm inwards than 8mm Ethos in 2" mode, and 11mm outwards than 13mm Ethos in 2" mode.

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