The "No EQ" DSO Challenge!

[SteveNickolls]

5 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

and have finally got a reasonable image with my DSLR and a 58mm lens on a Star Discovery mount

Hi Shaun,

Thanks for the post and image-well done, I bet you are well pleased with it :-)

I'm intrigued how you are finding your mount, I understand it has dual encoders allowing you to manually move the pointing without affecting alignment? Essentially an big step improvement on the Synscan Alt-Az I'm using. Have you tried to get longer exposures from the mount yet? With the Synscan I have been able to get 60 second exposures for objects well placed with regards to field rotation to the East and West. Beyond 60 seconds (I've tried at 70) the build limitations of the mount start to be noticed easily and a lot of exposures can't be used because of trailing. You do get a lot from the SkyWatcher equipment for little outlay. Recently I've been experimenting with a 85mm f1.8 lens on the mount but some nice clear nights would be good to have to be able to report something back :-)

Good luck in the future and keep those posts coming in! We have a good bunch of enthusiastic people contributing to this thread all proving you can image with an Alt-Az mount.

Best regards,
Steve

[happy-kat]

Well done Shaun you have got really good star shapes. With it being so cold that might have flattened your batteries much quicker. I used a flower pot and then flocked it to make a camera lens dew shield.

[Nigel G]

I have had no Internet for 2 days now. So I'm sitting by my front room window where I can just pick up a BT hot spot.

Seeing Ken's M1 made me try again with the modified camera. 

I'm pleased I did. These both have 20s, 30s and 40s subs. The modified camera image has 30 minutes,  the other has 45 minutes exposure. 

I think this image shows the difference between the camera's well.

First is unmodded 1300d about 2 months ago, second is modded 1200d last night.

Cheers 

Nige. 

[Filroden]

You can definitely see more definition in the modded version. But it's such a small target. It's almost worth cracking out the Barlow for it. 

[SilverAstro]

3 hours ago, Nigel G said:

First is unmodded 1300d about 2 months ago, second is modded 1200d last night.

Amazing images Nige, gobsmacked even -to use the vernacular !

Quite a surprising(?) bit of red Ha in the unmodded 1300,  wonder what an unmodded 1200 would have found, wonder if Canon have changed filter passbands meantime !

So, cloudy and cold outside, I amused myself by having a fiddle with your images to make a blink and noticed a bit of activity as well :- some movements near my red, yellow and green arrows. I have not got perfect alignment but good enough I think to show the errr ahem curious ufos , well I have not identified them !

[Nigel G]

3 hours ago, Filroden said:

You can definitely see more definition in the modded version. But it's such a small target. It's almost worth cracking out the Barlow for it. 

I had a very quick go with a barlow,  I  should have given it longer but 15s was not good with star trails.  I didn't even give it 5 minutes  tbh. 

I might try again tonight  if it's clear. 

Nige

[Nigel G]

14 minutes ago, SilverAstro said:

Amazing images Nige, gobsmacked even -to use the vernacular !

Quite a surprising(?) bit of red Ha in the unmodded 1300,  wonder what an unmodded 1200 would have found, wonder if Canon have changed filter passbands meantime !

So, cloudy and cold outside, I amused myself by having a fiddle with your images to make a blink and noticed a bit of activity as well :- some movements near my red, yellow and green arrows. I have not got perfect alignment but good enough I think to show the errr ahem curious ufos , well I have not identified them !

That will be StarTools star repairs where I  missed stars joined during masking. 

Or it could be UFOs. 

Nige. 

[Filroden]

38 minutes ago, Nigel G said:

Or it could be UFOs. 

Or UNOs (Unprocessed Nige Objects)

[SilverAstro]

Ah I see, so I dont need to download a big asteroid data base then. Well it kept me out of mischief for a wee while !

Beautiful detail you have in it, very well done.

 

[Filroden]

12 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

I only managed 60x30s subs and 10 darks before the lens froze over. Processing done in in light room and photoshop. The original had very bright streetlights in the bottom right which I managed to eradicate thanks to a tutorial vid by Doug German, a great channel!  I'm getting a 130pds tomorrow so hopefully should be able to produce better results in the future.

That's a very reasonable image with some nice star shapes (though they do start to elongate towards the top - maybe stop down the lens a little more?). You can just make out the Running Man and the Flame Nebula (it's clearer if you invert the image). I'm surprised you cannot see the Horsehead Nebula with 30 mins of total exposure, even with poorer Ha response. I don't think you've clipped the data (I couldn't find any 0/0/0 pixels, but there are some that are very close). Are you stretching the image in Photoshop and doing final processing in Lightroom? If so, do you stretch with levels or curves? I find curves harder but they preserve more detail if you do very small stretched many times. If the background brightens too much, you can always then do a final tweak with a small levels adjustment (or adjust the black/shadows sliders in Lightroom).

Good luck with the 130pds, I hope the skies are good to you!

[Filroden]

My apologies for any forecast clear nights in the next few days/weeks that are now mysteriously cloudy. I just pressed buy on a Ha filter. Narrowband alt/az imaging here I come!

[Nigel G]

2 hours ago, SilverAstro said:

Quite a surprising(?) bit of red Ha in the unmodded 1300,  wonder what an unmodded 1200 would have found, wonder if Canon have changed filter passbands meantime !

 

As far as I'm aware the 1300d is identical to the 1200d except for 1300d has wifi available.

Nige.

[Shaun_Astro]

 

Thanks Steve, I haven't got a timer remote so am stuck with 30s exposures atm, and M42 is South currently, so 30s is probably max doable, it is a very widefield shot and higher magnification probably would have had trails. The mount is really good! I wanted it over the Alt az for that feature, and it is good to move it about by hand, it's VERY stable and good value, still using the remote is best for small adjustments.

Thanks Happy cat, that's a good idea for a dew shield, but I have just bought a reflector so I don' have to worry so much!

Cheers Filroden, I did some initial work in lightroom, then removed the gradient in PS and pushed the curves out a bit more. I used a mixture of levels and curves, levels mainly for setting the black value, pushing it up every time the image is stretched in curves just enough but not clipping. And there's some coma about the top because I cropped the other three sides :0)

 

 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Shaun_Astro

[Nigel G]

Shaun, with my 150p reflector dew can build up quite quick on the secondary mirror.  Adding a dew shield to extend the telescope helps a lot.  Even putting a flowerpot with the bottom cut out will help. 

Last night after just 40 minutes of use without a pot extention  the secondary had frozen dew on and needed defrosting with a fan heater. With a 8 inch pot extending the tube this would not happen for a couple of hours. 

I have far more trouble with the scope than my lenses when it comes to dew.

Best solution is dew heaters. 

Looking forward to seeing some images with your new 130p-ds 

Good luck and clear sky's. 

Nige. 

[happy-kat]

3 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

 

Thanks Steve, I haven't got a timer remote so am stuck with 30s exposures atm

If you have a Canon and an andrioid tablet/phone take a look at DSLR controller.

[Shaun_Astro]

Nope, I stupidly bought a Windows phone, which nothing works on!

I got the 130pds yesterday. it's lot heavier than anticipated (didn't know the published weight didn't include the OTA rings), with the camera it's 4.9kg, and my mount's limit is 5kg. The OTA rings and dovetail is nearly 1kg alone! I've made a dovetail and scope holder for it out of wood, which is 300g, but need some large rubber bands to stop it slipping about when pointing 60 degrees or more.

I collimnated it, balanced it, then took it out and aligned, then the clouds came over. Moved it all back inside. About 11pm it was clear again so took it out again and aligned it, then the mount's batteries ran out!

Replaced them, re-aligned it, and found it wasn't tracking accurately AT ALL. With lighter scopes it takes about a minute for the stars to become pin sharp, but with this lump, it took about 4-5 minutes, I think the software has some feedback on the tracking controls. 

Anyway, finally it stared tracking Okayish; but about 50% of frames have trails or zig-zaged stars. 

Thought it might be the DSLR mirror, so looked up how to turn on mirror lockup, but Canon have removed this feature for the 1300d!

Anyway, TLDR; here are some pictures. I FORGOT to take darks! And REALLY need a coma corrector, I didn't think an F5 would be this bad!

M35

Notice the light pollution difference in this one!

M3

 

 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Shaun_Astro

[Nigel G]

Nothing wrong with them, very respectable first images.

My scope and camera are on the limit of my mount 5 kg. It does take a few minutes to settle in, but will track good enough for 120s subs on a good day. normally 30s exposures keep rate 90%.

Startools processing software has a good module for repairing coma stars, just an alternative to a coma corrector.

Nige.

[Filroden]

3 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

M3

If I'm not mistaken, it looks like you've also got NGC5263 (https://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/NGC_5263)

[happy-kat]

M3 is nice, here we prefer to take flats and bias frames and use the saved time to take more lights.

I'm wondering if your tube attachment is still holding the weight out from the mount head. 

[rotatux]

Had to wait to come back home and a calibrated screen to check your pics (at work the sunlit screen didn't favor astro images, lol)

Your M35 is good, with very fine stars, maybe lacking somewhat star colors.

But I love your M3, with its pinpoint stars of the cluster, and that sensation of depth from color and intensity gradient in it. I would plunge inside

It also looks you managed to catch a small galaxy midway from center to top... good job!

Edit:

You also don't have too much noise so far... seems darks not needed for such DSLR (not the case of all).

I found the 130PDS very lightweight, given its build quality for one, and because it replaces a 127MAK (6kg) on my Nexstar SLT (given ok for up to 7kg). Admitedly, my cam is also very lightweight. My OTA with rings, dovetail and dust caps tops at 4.4kg. The stock 6x30 finder adds 220g and my cam 220g also. So once the dust caps removed it's way below 5kg. Hum, that's not counting the comacorr and adapters...

Edited January 19, 2017 by rotatux

[The Admiral]

7 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

Nope, I stupidly bought a Windows phone, which nothing works on!

I got the 130pds yesterday. it's lot heavier than anticipated (didn't know the published weight didn't include the OTA rings), with the camera it's 4.9kg, and my mount's limit is 5kg. The OTA rings and dovetail is nearly 1kg alone! I've made a dovetail and scope holder for it out of wood, which is 300g, but need some large rubber bands to stop it slipping about when pointing 60 degrees or more.

I collimnated it, balanced it, then took it out and aligned, then the clouds came over. Moved it all back inside. About 11pm it was clear again so took it out again and aligned it, then the mount's batteries ran out!

Replaced them, re-aligned it, and found it wasn't tracking accurately AT ALL. With lighter scopes it takes about a minute for the stars to become pin sharp, but with this lump, it took about 4-5 minutes, I think the software has some feedback on the tracking controls. 

Anyway, finally it stared tracking Okayish; but about 50% of frames have trails or zig-zaged stars. 

Thought it might be the DSLR mirror, so looked up how to turn on mirror lockup, but Canon have removed this feature for the 1300d!

Anyway, TLDR; here are some pictures. I FORGOT to take darks! And REALLY need a coma corrector, I didn't think an F5 would be this bad!

Cracking shots there Shaun, especially as you were somewhat hampered along the way. Nice crisp stars.

Personally, I wouldn't worry too much about the stated mount limit. Alt-Az mounts tend not to be like EQ mounts where one would reckon to load up to only 50% of the stated limit. Provided you are in reasonable balance the mount should give a good account of itself even if overloaded a bit. The main detriment is likely to be slightly increased wear rather than unacceptable performance. Certainly, that is what I read regarding my Nexstar mount.

Ian

[SteveNickolls]

10 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

And REALLY need a coma corrector

Hi Shaun,

Well done with the images, If you try out StarTools for your processing you can bin the image and help hide the eggy stars quite a lot and as Nige mentions also use the software to repair coma affected stars :-)

Cheers,
Steve

Edited January 19, 2017 by SteveNickolls

[Filroden]

Well, my Ha filter arrived today and is now installed in the 5 slot of my filter wheel, meaning I can now do LHaRGB imaging. However, the forecast here looks terrible. It's showing the chance of a clear night on Monday but with a very high dew point and a 9/10 for visibility. That normally means lots of moisture in the air which gives everything an ethereal halo  Hopefully it will be cold enough to clear it. My plan (hope) is to spend more time on the Rosette Nebula as it is bright and should show some good structure in Ha. It rises to an altitude of 20 degrees by 18:30 at ESE. Last time I only managed 15 second exposures as I imaged much later in the night and it was closer to SSE. Hopefully if I get it earlier (especially in Ha which won't be as badly affected by light pollution) then I might get 30 seconds or even longer. Ideally I wanted to try for 60 seconds with the Ha filter and 30 seconds with the LRGB.

Edit: and I finally found the right combination of adaptors to shorten the back focus on my camera. It's still not right but is now much closer than before. I downloaded a demo copy of CCDinspector to test the curvature of my images so hopefully I will see an improvement (and meanwhile continue looking for something to close the remaining gap).

Edited January 20, 2017 by Filroden

[The Admiral]

Hi Ken, I'm just in the middle of processing my Rosette from last night and I used 30s subs even as it went through South. Can't say it has affected it (but with my images you probably wouldn't notice anyway ), and of course with the large amount of field rotation a lot of the edges (where it would be more noticeable) are cropped off. Good luck with your Ha filter. Why do you want a greater sub length for Ha? Is the transmission at Ha lower than for your red filter?

Ian

Edited January 20, 2017 by The Admiral

[Filroden]

1 minute ago, The Admiral said:

Hi Ken, I'm just in the middle of processing my Rosette from last night and I used 30s subs even as it went through South. Can't say it has affected it (but with my images you probably wouldn't notice anyway ), and of course with the large amount of field rotation a lot of the edges, where it would be more noticeable) are cropped off. Good luck with your Ha filter. Why do you want a greater sub length for Ha? Is the transmission at Ha lower than for your red filter?

Ian

Thank you. And it's just because of the narrow bandwidth. The filter is only letting through a fraction of the same light seen in the L or R filters (both pass Ha too), so it will need longer (or I have to take more) exposures. The good thing is that the stars are very small in Ha images, so even if I double exposure (and probably also raise gain) I will still end up with smaller stars than the L or R images.

Thankfully the Rosette is fairly circular, lending itself to a square crop (which I find also hides the worst of any tilt/curvature in the image, and any astigmatism from the lens).