The "No EQ" DSO Challenge!

[Nigel G]

I had a good try with a barlow lens on M1 last night and failed.

The longest sub I could get was 20s and a keep rate of about 10 %,... 10s keep rate 50%, all At 6400 ISO I could only see some stars, no nebula visible.

After stacking 100 frames and processing there was a faint blur there somewhere.

At 1600 ISO and 20s there was only a few faint stars.

I also got a few subs on the Pacman with the modified camera. Only about 20 minutes of 30s. Once again its a big improvement on the last try. But needs more time adding.

Here's the Pacman and comparison.

Cheers

Nige.

[Filroden]

What a difference. It's almost like you've also changed scopes. I suspect it's partly the camera and partly your skill in processing the image, as your new version is so much sharper and colourful. And once you start adding data and you can control the noise it will only get better!

Shame about the barlow. There are some really nice small targets coming through for late winter/early spring (one of the reasons for me testing the SCT again).

[Nigel G]

I shouldn't say this cos I'll probably jinx myself but, I'm imaging Pacman again tonight and the mount is spot on atm, got a string of 15 x 60s tight stars, bang on, plus a bunch of 45s. going well so far.

Nige.

[Shaun_Astro]

I tried imaging the Crab last night, but the mount wouldn't track accurately enough. It was balanced and well aligned, but I still couldn't get it to give pin point stars on 30s subs. They were more like """"\ shaped. I had to bin about 75% of 'em.

I took 30 mins worth of M42 and got about 14 useful 30s frames.

Used Flat, Bias and Dark frames on this one and it's certainly made the difference. 

 

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Shaun_Astro

[Nigel G]

That's a great improvement Shaun, running man looks good to and great stars. 

I think you might be missing some detail and dust when processing, it seems quite dark and there's a ton of emissions around the whole area.

A little more developing maybe, I'm no expert though

Cheers

Nige.

 

 

[Shaun_Astro]

Thanks, yeah I've been reading about how to put a false luminance layer in, might try that, but it needs more detail added ideally, I'll add more subs at some point.

[ManixZero]

Taken tonight - M42

I got my Nexstar 4se for Xmas and despite the advice to the contrary, can't resist hanging my Pentax K5 off the "Other Hole"

I found M42 for the first time last weekend and decided to try to take a pic tonight as it was clear.

This was one of the best of about 30 shots at between 10sec and 5 mins.

30 seconds ISO 400 and developed in Lightroom.

I have only been doing this for a month (viewing and imaging) but I am totally hooked.  (I have to improve my focusing technique - I know)

But what other targets should I be looking for? Any advice appreciated!

 

Cheers

MZ

[Nigel G]

33 minutes ago, ManixZero said:

Taken tonight - M42

I got my Nexstar 4se for Xmas and despite the advice to the contrary, can't resist hanging my Pentax K5 off the "Other Hole"

I found M42 for the first time last weekend and decided to try to take a pic tonight as it was clear.

This was one of the best of about 30 shots at between 10sec and 5 mins.

30 seconds ISO 400 and developed in Lightroom.

I have only been doing this for a month (viewing and imaging) but I am totally hooked.  (I have to improve my focusing technique - I know)

But what other targets should I be looking for? Any advice appreciated!

 

Cheers

MZ

 

Hi ManixZero and welcome to the No EQ DSO Challenge.

A good start there  Better than my first attempts.

For focusing you can't beat a Bahtinov mask, not expensive and makes focusing a doddle.

Keep at it, try different settings ( ISO ) exposure times, Most find up to 60s is max for an Alt-AZ mount, sometimes pushing the limits up to 90 seconds.

Stacking multiple images is your next step. Deep Sky Stacker, a free download. Plenty of advice here for using DSS.

Your hooked  you won't believe the images you will get  .

Try Rosette nebula, NGC 2244. Globular and open star clusters are very rewarding. Stellarium is a good program to download, it shows you what's up there in real time.

Try to get at least 30 minutes of data for processing, example 60 photo's at 30 seconds, the more data the better the final image.

Be picky with keeping your light frames, bin any with star trails.

When stacking use flat frames and bias frames. both are easy to take and plenty of tutorials on YouTube. Recommend 50 bias frames and 30 flat frames. This helps no end with processing.

I have been imaging for only a year so no expert but I hope this helps you in some way.

Enjoy the ride and look forward to seeing your images.

Cheers

Nige.

[ManixZero]

13 minutes ago, Nigel G said:

Hi ManixZero and welcome to the No EQ DSO Challenge.

A good start there  Better than my first attempts.

For focusing you can't beat a Bahtinov mask, not expensive and makes focusing a doddle.

Keep at it, try different settings ( ISO ) exposure times, Most find up to 60s is max for an Alt-AZ mount, sometimes pushing the limits up to 90 seconds.

Stacking multiple images is your next step. Deep Sky Stacker, a free download. Plenty of advice here for using DSS.

Your hooked  you won't believe the images you will get  .

Try Rosette nebula, NGC 2244. Globular and open star clusters are very rewarding. Stellarium is a good program to download, it shows you what's up there in real time.

Try to get at least 30 minutes of data for processing, example 60 photo's at 30 seconds, the more data the better the final image.

Be picky with keeping your light frames, bin any with star trails.

When stacking use flat frames and bias frames. both are easy to take and plenty of tutorials on YouTube. Recommend 50 bias frames and 30 flat frames. This helps no end with processing.

I have been imaging for only a year so no expert but I hope this helps you in some way.

Enjoy the ride and look forward to seeing your images.

Cheers

Nige.

Thanks Nige,

Stacking images is something I know I have to sort out - I have tried Registax but can't seem to get it to work.  Will try DSS next.  Flat frames Bias Frames? all new terms!

I have printed a Bahtinov mask but have yet to cut it out and try it.

I have downloaded Stellarium and will now have to hunt for NGC 2244.  

Until then here's another from tonight.................

 

Cheers MZ

[The Admiral]

12 hours ago, Shaun_Astro said:

I tried imaging the Crab last night, but the mount wouldn't track accurately enough. It was balanced and well aligned, but I still couldn't get it to give pin point stars on 30s subs. They were more like """"\ shaped. I had to bin about 75% of 'em.

I took 30 mins worth of M42 and got about 14 useful 30s frames.

Used Flat, Bias and Dark frames on this one and it's certainly made the difference. 

 

 

That's rather nice Shaun and shows a lot of promise. Nice and sharp and I'm sure that there's rather more detail hidden in there, especially for 7m exposure, but I agree with Nige, the sky is so black that you may be clipping off some detail hidden in the shadows. And a bit more stretching would help I think, don't worry too much about the noise, you can deal with that later. I always think that a lot depends on processing, self-evident really I suppose, but so often one sees images that have potential which hasn't been fully exploited. Once fully exploited, it can be most encouraging I find.

Don't expect pin-point stars on all your subs. Some nights the mount may seem to perform brilliantly, and at other time rubbish. In an attempt to image the Rosette nebula the other night I ended up ditching about 50% of my subs, though to be fair I was being ruthless. By the time that 'slightly off' stars are stacked they'll more than likely appear round, though perhaps not 'pin-sharp'. But there are tools in, say StarTools, which can help with that.

For anyone just starting out on this 'game', have a read of  'Astro-photography on the Go' by Joseph Ashley (one of the Patrick Moore Paractical Astronomy series of books). We are not alone in using Alt-Az mounts to do imaging!

Ian

[Nigel G]

Registax is great for planetary or lunar but not for DSO's

Nige.

[The Admiral]

10 hours ago, ManixZero said:

Taken tonight - M42

I got my Nexstar 4se for Xmas and despite the advice to the contrary, can't resist hanging my Pentax K5 off the "Other Hole"

I found M42 for the first time last weekend and decided to try to take a pic tonight as it was clear.

This was one of the best of about 30 shots at between 10sec and 5 mins.

30 seconds ISO 400 and developed in Lightroom.

I have only been doing this for a month (viewing and imaging) but I am totally hooked.  (I have to improve my focusing technique - I know)

But what other targets should I be looking for? Any advice appreciated!

 

Cheers

MZ

Welcome to the Forum MZ and to the wonders (and frustrations!) of astro-imaging. That said, Alt-Az imaging gives a great introduction to the art, for modest outlay.

You've made a good start, presumably attaching your Pentax with lens to the mount, rather than attaching to the 'scope? But +1 to all of Nige's suggestions. Looking forward to seeing more of your images.

Ian

[The Admiral]

Well, well, well! Two clear nights on the trot . Couldn't let that pass! The previous night I topped up my Rosette Nebula image but I'm still processing that, and last night I had a go at the Cone Nebula. I wasn't sure quite what to expect with this, as I don't recall seeing any Alt-Az images of it. I took 240 x 30s subs at ISO1600, but whittled those down to 170 before stacking in AstroArt. I took 60 flats but no darks, instead I used a generic ISO1600 bias stack.

The red channel is very noisy, but I was pleased to see the Cone making a distinct appearance and the brighter parts of the nebula shows a surprising amount of fine detail. I think this target needs a lot more data, which means field rotation is going to be a problem unless one is able to image on several nights with prior alignment. Anyway, here's what I managed to squeeze out of this data set, using StarTools with the colour module, and polishing in Lightroom.  Equipment:  Fuji X-T1 through an Altair 102mm f/7 Super ED with a TS Photoline 2" 0.79x reducer/flattener. Mounted on a Nexstar 6/8SE Alt-Az mount.

Ian

 

[Filroden]

8 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

I had a go at the Cone Nebula.

More than a go! That's a target that's always scared me from trying, not least because it looks so difficult to frame. I can't tell from my planetarium software where each element is located it's such a busy area.

You've got both the emission and reflection really well. The overall image has quite a green cast, making many of the stars quite acid in colour, but otherwise the colours look good. And you have a really sharp Cone. 

Looks like a new target is within sight!

[The Admiral]

9 minutes ago, Filroden said:

More than a go! That's a target that's always scared me from trying, not least because it looks so difficult to frame. I can't tell from my planetarium software where each element is located it's such a busy area.

You've got both the emission and reflection really well. The overall image has quite a green cast, making many of the stars quite acid in colour, but otherwise the colours look good. And you have a really sharp Cone. 

Looks like a new target is within sight!

Thanks Ken, I'll have a look at that. Yes, I found framing difficult because I wasn't able to work out exactly where I was (or even which way up!) from one of the subs. I relied totally on my mount for putting me in the right spot to start with. And again, I wasn't sure of the extent of the nebula, and given that with the extended observation period I envisaged quite a bit of cropping too. Luckily, it just about worked out OK.

Ian

[The Admiral]

19 minutes ago, Filroden said:

The overall image has quite a green cast, making many of the stars quite acid in colour

Hmm, not sure about that, on my screen. If anything, I'd say a reddish cast. What does appear to be the case though is that some of the stars aren't uniform and there appears to be a coloured crescent to them, perhaps greenish. I've racked down the saturation of the greens in LR. It's over-sharpened in ST though.

Ian

[Filroden]

I think this would be my view, obviously reduced for cropping, so I'm not sure what is in the surrounding area and how much is within the capabilities of my set up.

[Filroden]

It's mainly in the stars, and clearer in some of the halos. It's much more pronounced when I was looking on my iPad screen. Now I'm on the monitor it's not so obvious. Here's my attempt at removing green. There is a slight shift in colour from a acid yellow to a warmer orange in the stars but no affect on the nebula.

[Filroden]

On closer zoom, it seems there are small areas with a green cast and the rest of the image unaffected.

Here's a screenshot from my iPad:

Its almost like a noise pattern with green? It may even be an effect of jpeg compression rather than in the original image?

[The Admiral]

36 minutes ago, Filroden said:

On closer zoom, it seems there are small areas with a green cast and the rest of the image unaffected.

Here's a screenshot from my iPad:

.......

Its almost like a noise pattern with green? It may even be an effect of jpeg compression rather than in the original image?

Yes, you can see the green crescents in the stars that I was referring to. I might have a re-process; I software binned 33%, which isn't a nice round figure, so I might try a different binning. It's also in the tif so it shouldn't be a compression artefact.

Ian

[The Admiral]

1 hour ago, Filroden said:

I think this would be my view, obviously reduced for cropping, so I'm not sure what is in the surrounding area and how much is within the capabilities of my set up.

Certainly the Christmas Tree cluster/Cone nebula is within your 'scope's reach, but if you are planning on capturing other things? A quick Google reveals many images with differing fields of view, and it almost seems that the nebula never really stops! It just depends on how far back you want to view it from. Now's your chance for a mosaic! Your 'scope has a rather wider FoV than mine.

Incidentally, what software are you using for the above?

Ian

[happy-kat]

When it was discussed didn't it get identify that tiff is actually compressing.

[Nigel G]

The mount did do well last night. I got 90x60s on the Pacman and a further 45x60s on the Horsehead.

A slight small problem was the focus had shifted slightly during the Pacman shoot. Not much but enough to blur the image a little.

I have processed it a couple of times with much better result than the last time. Just wish I had checked the focus during the shoot.

Cheers

Nige.

First process of 90x60s

Second process of 90x60s

[Nigel G]

The surrounding area of the cone nebula  

[Filroden]

44 minutes ago, The Admiral said:

Incidentally, what software are you using for the above?

It's SkySafari on my iPad. It can also control my mount when wifi wants to be nice to me.