Options for around £200 stars and moon

[phoobar]

Hi

I want to spend around £200 on a small portable telescope for learning the stars and would like some opinions and recommendations please.

If I maintain my interest I will invest in a larger scope for deep space and planets at a later stage and keep this one as a handy utility scope.

I intend to buy a couple of lenses/filters but am unsure of that at the moment.

I spotted this and wondered if it was any good to start Skywatcher explorer 150P?

Cheers

[Bizibilder]

The 150P is a good starter scope (but is quite a bit over £200).  If your budget is a little more you may want to consider the Skyliner 150P or 200P Dobsonian (A Newtonian reflector on a simple mount - hence the lower price).  These are excellent starter scopes and the slightly larger aparture od the 200P will give you better deep sky views.  The downside is you are in London, with its light pollution, but you can easily transport a Dobsonian to a darker sky site and use it there - one advantage is there is no mount alignment to do as there is with an equatorial type mount.

[phoobar]

Hi Bizi

I was looking at a tube assembly only by mistake, I gather I would then need to buy a mount for it.

I really do not want to stray over £200 at this stage.

I am actually situated on the north edge of Barnet, Hertfordshire and when looking south light pollution is obvious but is on the horizon. On a clear night the stars from my position are fantastic, hence I want a scope

Thanks for the input

[phoobar]

I just found this video 

 will I actually see this sort of quality with the skyliner 200P without any additional equipment?

If this is the case I may increase the budget.

[Tinker1947]

If a scope and mount are to expensive then  8 X 56mm Binoculars would make learning the sky easier, plus Stellarium if you don't already have it...

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/barr-stroud-binoculars/b-s-savannah-ED-56.html

[phoobar]

Hi Tinker 

I did consider binoculars but trying to show the kids will be much harder.

At least with a scope I can find something and leave it for the kids to enjoy too.

I will try stellarium tonight thank you. 

[Bizibilder]

The Skyliner 150P fits the bill and is £199.  http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html    Very user friendly, especially for the kids to enjoy.  With the 150P you will certainly get a view of the Moon comparable with that video.  Once your eyes are accustomed to observing you will see far more detail than the camera will show, especially in those moments of very clear "seeing" (as astronomers call it).

[Hootsitabernacle]

try second hand..you can get great deals..like this..http://www.gumtree.com/p/hobbies-collectibles/sky-watcher-skyliner-150-6-f-1200-dobsonian-telescope/1082689927

or this http://www.gumtree.com/p/telescopes/celestron-astromaster-130-with-boxes-instructions-and-accessories-mint-/1083586702

[swamp thing]

I agree with Roger the skyliner 150p dob is about as good a starter scope as you can get and I'd not hesitate to recommend it.

[phoobar]

OK Thanks very much for the responses.

Stellarium is a nice little program, I have some 10x25 binoculars that I will try out tonight hopefully.

[happy-kat]

Unless you manage to buy a tracking mount second hand your children will need to look sharpish into the eye piece before the object drifts out of site.

How far is storage to observing.

Some scopes even if in budget are big and heavy.

A smaller portable scope right now will always be a grab and go or grab and travel.

How old are the children.

At a dark location a smaller scope will show more than the same scope in a city or where there is light pollution.

Ironically in my front garden I saw more with my very small binoculars then my 130mm telescope last night I am deffinately swaying towards refractors for ease of use and I like the view and wider fov.

You may want to save a bit of your budget for one better quality eyepiece. Filters I would not worry about.

Think about the mount an equatorial mount with a newtonian is not a good idea if you are showing your children the eyepiece can get in awkward positions. A refractor always had the eyepiece at the end of the telescope and can be easily adjusted by a turn off the diagonal.

An eq mount is heavier too but some can have motors fitted to help with tracking.

A cheap light weight wobbly tripod might get annoying to use.

[Charic]

If you want a starter scope or just a  scope to last a lifetime, the Sky-watcher Skyliner 200P is good for visual astronomy. Its  mounted to a Dobsonian base,  not recommended for long exposure photography. For that you need an expensive and sturdy  equatorial mount  for dedicated astrophotography tracking. Check out some  of my gallery images  taken with the Nikon and mobile phone, I call them snaps, but  their fine for my use.  I've only just dabbled to see the potential, and my Nikon  takes movies. As suggested, get some binoculars for initial observations. happy-kat  notes the 'drift' of the target object. If you want the kids to be able to follow the object, then a GoTo system may be required, but depending on the age of the children and their skill level, a GoTo is not the easiest system to set-up alone, but once setup up, may be the better option.  For visual use  I'd suggest the 200P as your minimum aperture. 

[happy-kat]

There is an excellent thread on what can I expect to see which gives indication of how big that planet may look.

The scope you use is the best one you have and that could mean the quickest to set up and use regardless of how small the apperature is.

[ronin]

Your statement of find something then leave it for the kids to see causes problems.

That implies that the scope will track whatever you aim it at, otherwise the object drifts out of view and is not there for the kids.

If you get a 150P dobsonian then it will do what you want except track.

I suspect that you and each child will have to learn seperately how to locate an object with one.

The only tracking scopes I am aware of are the Heritage line of scopes that may fit in your budget. There may be others that I fo not know.

If Tring is not too far then perhaps pay a visit there one Saturday to look around their showroom. Not sure of clubs in the Barnet area, also cannot easily look up one now as Fedastro have changed their list and it is now alphabetic and not grouped by county.

[happy-kat]

This is the post on What can you expect to see.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/#

A dobsian 150p or 200p or even a newtonian on a tripod does not fit into the 'small portable telecope' of the thread starter.

The Virtuoso mount shown in the link below is a fairly small table top mount that can track the object once you locate it and is mentioned by Ronin above.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/heritage.html

You can chose one of two telescope options either a small newtonian 114p mm or a Maksutov-Cassegrain 90mm the later would give great Moon views I understand but a narror field of view for looking at general space but binnoculars are great for that.

Any scope is a compromise and no scope does everything, what is it right now that you want to see and how easy and postable do you want to be etc.

[phoobar]

Hi

TRACKING: What I meant was, we will be observing together so when an object is found we can take turns to look through the scope, with binoculars this is not possible as the kids would have to find it themselves. I didn't mean I want a tracking scope, apologies for the confusion

The skyliner 150p probably looks the favourite so will I need anything else to get started?

I read these scopes may need aligning with a laser when first set up, should I buy a laser?

Also when looking at the moon do I need a filter? I suspect we will study the moon often at first.

Thanks all for your input, I am hoping to order this week, excited!

[happy-kat]

The cheapest way to look at the Moon is wear your sunglasses it will cut the brightness. But never look at the sun with your telescope. You need very special filters/film for that.

[Bizibilder]

The Moon is bright through a telescope but not so bright that you must use a filter - you can also make it appear "dimmer" by increasing the magnification (using an eyepiece of shorter focal length).  Learning to "nudge" a Dobsonian to keep an object in the field of view is quite easy - kids will pick up the technique quicker than you do!!

You don't need a laser collimator - a collimation cap will do the job:  http://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/rigel-aline-collimation-cap.html   a bit of patience and care and you can collimate properly quite easily.  Some folk seem to think you must have a laser to do the job - you don't - it just makes the job quicker.  You can fine tune your collimation on a star if you want to get things "spot-on".

[happy-kat]

If your children are young you may need something for them to stand on to see in the eyepiece

[Charic]

Hi

TRACKING: What I meant was, we will be observing together so when an object is found we can take turns to look through the scope, with binoculars this is not possible as the kids would have to find it themselves. I didn't mean I want a tracking scope, apologies for the confusion

The skyliner 150p probably looks the favourite so will I need anything else to get started?

I read these scopes may need aligning with a laser when first set up, should I buy a laser?

Also when looking at the moon do I need a filter? I suspect we will study the moon often at first.

Thanks all for your input, I am hoping to order this week, excited!

You won't believe how fast the target moves out of the field of view at higher magnifications through a telescope, Its F-A-S-T!  You would be quicker with binoculars, and due to the inverted image from the telescope, also very confusing at first trying to track, so no, there is no confusion, here, but be warned, At high mags, it could take a week for that child to lock onto the target again ????

Follow Bizibilder's advice on what you need for setting up/tuning the telescope. The only thing you would change is  the supplied 10mm eyepiece, which is not so good. The 25mm will be just fine. Can I add that an 8mm BST Starguider would be a brilliant choice for that eyepiece.

[Hootsitabernacle]

if you want a scope within your budget, new and has a motorized mount then you could try this for size, I got my dad one of these earlier in the year..and its from a respectable dealer and will track

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130m.html

[RT65CB-SWL]

if you want a scope within your budget, new and has a motorized mount then you could try this for size, I got my dad one of these earlier in the year..and its from a respectable dealer and will track

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-130m.html

Hi 'phoobar' and welcome to SGL.

Personally I would go with the 'Dob' option rather than the above which has a GEM. As you say you have kids and they may lose interest or end up going past their bedtime if dad is setting up a GEM. With a 'Dob', put it on a the ground, point, view & enjoy!

[phoobar]

Follow Bizibilder's advice on what you need for setting up/tuning the telescope. The only thing you would change is  the supplied 10mm eyepiece, which is not so good. The 25mm will be just fine. Can I add that an 8mm BST Starguider would be a brilliant choice for that eyepiece.

Hi Charic

Do you mean replace the 10mm with the 8mm BST you suggest? I intend to buy good eyepieces as these will hopefully stay with me if I decide to change or add new scopes.

Am I right in thinking the smaller size has more magnification and more narrow FOV or the other way around?

Thanks for all the help here guys really much appreciated.

[Charic]

phoobar.........your right about the  8mm and higher magnification.

The supplied eyepieces that arrive with Skywatcher telescopes are acceptable , the 25mm more so!  But most folk will want to buy more eyepieces to have more options. Some folk will just buy a Barlow lens, that changes the optical train of the telescope. You achieve magnification from dividing the telescopes focal length by the eyepiece focal length, so on my telescope the FL=1200 and  the eyepiece is 8mm  1200/8=150x. 150x means power or magnification, you decide. Now if I insert a 2xBarlow my FL changes from FL-1200 to FL-2400. During the same math we now have 300x Power/Magnification. 2400/8=300x. This magnification is approaching the limits and  ability of searching many things with my telescope due to the seeing conditions caused by the atmosphere over the UK, but is fine for looking for Moon rocks?. Ok maybe Mountains, but the view of the Moon is awesome at this level, but I do have to keep moving the telescope  to keep aligned with the target. Blame Planet Earth for that, with its busy spin speed of just over 1000 mph?

The BST's offer much more in performance over the standard eyepieces,  and with  their  60° degree views and good eye relief, I'm more than happy with them.

Its not so much a replacement as you will still keep the 10mm, but when you compare both EP's you'll understand why. The 25mm EP gives a wider  view and is still workable. I've not used the 10 & 25mm since the BST's arrived. 

For the money, the BST's are excellent for my use. If there is a problem or an issue on initial purchase, you just send them back to get a refund.  If you like one of them, you will surely like the rest. I only managed to buy one second hand, the 25mm, but I went for the 8, 18, 12, 25 5 in that order I think, and there is a 3.2mm variant made by  Photon? which I may consider?  if one comes my way at a reduced cost. Its quite a high magnification for my telescope, and to be honest would only be of any use to me looking at the Moon!

[Hootsitabernacle]

your head has got to be burstin by now surely? 8mm has more mag than the 10mm, 25mm etc..it is a good eyepiece, i have one myself and have seen some right good views of saturn and jupiter with it. Point is if you want a small, easy to grab and go scope then i dont think you will get a decent one with decent aperature for your budget..unless you get a bargain 2nd hand. If you want to get blown away by views then the Dobs are the way to go but they are rather large but are easily storable (i kept my 8 inch dob in the corner of my dining room, put a lampshae on the top of it..wife was none the wiser), and they are not too cumbersome to move either, the tube lifts off from the base very easily..i had mine for a year before i went down the GOTO route. Tracking is the key if you are using high magnification cos the planets fairly whizz by the FOV. I was told to get the best scope you can afford..everyone..and i mean everyone told me to get the 8 Inch dob..to get the same on an EQ mount or goto then you can times the price by 2 or 3. I hope you get sorted soon tho..Orion is getting closer to viewing outwith silly o'clock! and whn you see the nebula then it makes it all worthwhile!