dedicated solar imaging setup, £2k budget

[oldpink]

I have a EQ5 mount sitting doing nothing or I could piggyback a solar scope onto my SW200p on my NEQ6 with a white light filter

Coronado SolarMax II 60 and the Lunt LS60THa seem to be the main contenders in my price range taking into account accessory's and filters

from my understanding the higher the B number the better for imaging so I'm looking at the B1200 lunt as it seems to be the better choice for imaging

imaging would be done using my Canon or ASI 120mc and more important than viewing

is there any other dedicated solar scopes / setups I should look at

considering this is a long term venture where I will move to CCD shortly after this to use for DSO as well as Solar
so I don't mid some short term limitations if it helps in the long run
 

[CKemu]

Regardless of the solar scope you pick, you will need a mono camera. With a colour camera you are wasting a lot of resolution on G, B pixels that won't see a thing, degrading your image quality and ultimately frustrating you. A Ha telescope works using a very thin slice of the red wavelength, so you might as well shoot monochrome, get more resolution and make it whatever colour you want.

Oh and you will need a tilt adapter to combat Newton Rings, whilst you can use flats to an extent, or motion based diffusion, ultimately you plug a tilt adapter in, spend 30 minutes testing and tweaking your angle once, and that's it, you're good to go from that point on, no flats, and no fuss.

I had to make that choice between Lunt and Coronado, ultimately both make exceptional scopes, and it really will just come down to price and availability.

[Pete Presland]

isnt it mostly CMOS sensors that suffer with "newton rings" i would go for a DMK21au618 mono camera.

[oldpink]

Regardless of the solar scope you pick, you will need a mono camera. With a colour camera you are wasting a lot of resolution on G, B pixels that won't see a thing, degrading your image quality and ultimately frustrating you. A Ha telescope works using a very thin slice of the red wavelength, so you might as well shoot monochrome, get more resolution and make it whatever colour you want.

thanks for that info, I hadn't considered that the colour camera's were not the best to use

[DrRobin]

Colour cameras aren't much good for Ha as outlined above.  Not only are you throwing away 2/3rds of the pixels the Bayer matrix usually causes Newton Rings to appear.  Generally CCD mono cameras are the best for Ha as they have no or very little Newton Rings, so the DMK series from Imaging Source are popular as are the Point Grey cameras.

CMOS cameras, such as you ASI120 are known for generating Netwon Rings, but my ASI120MM (I have two as well) don't exhibit any Newton Rings at prime focus in my Lunt 60 and only small amounts with a 1.5x barlow attached.  I have just bought a tilt adapter, but whilst it can get rid of the Newton Ring problem, it leads to an un-even field so all my recent images are without it been used.

As for choice of scopes, the Lunt 60 and Solarmax 60 should be very similar.  In my mind the pressure tuner used by Lunt should give a better view especially across a wider field, whether it does or not is open for debate.  Lunt also fit a Crayford rather than a helical focuser which again I prefer, but don't know how they compare.  Since I bought a Lunt 60 PT I suppose I am biased.

A B600 filter would be fine for a small chip camera and might be big enough for an ASI120MM (the chip is physically small), but a B1200 would be preferred if in budget.

The new Lunt 50 PT is coming along soon and is a lot less money so might be worth considering.  I am told that the Etalon (Ha filter) is matched very well to the aperture size and should provide views nearly as good as a Lunt 60, but for half the price.  No one will know until they hit the streets, so if you are in no rush it might be worth watching the first reports.  They only have a helical focuser, so not quite as good as a Crayford, but the Lunt 35 has a helical focuser and Michael gets some superb shots with his Lunt.

If like me you decide you want more than you can add a double stack filter on the front to reduce the bandwidth and pull out more detail, but that is for a few months down the line.

I have had my Lunt 60 for about 2 years now and it is still a great performer, in fact I still love it.  I recently bought a Daystar Quark and have given that an extensive try, but mine seems to have a problem and has gone back for repair/adjustment so I am currently back with my Lunt, which if I am honest is better.

Robin

[Luke]

Just me but for £2k I would consider a Daystar Quark Chromosphere, Skywatcher ED100 DS-Pro scope and Point Grey Blackfly USB3 mono camera. You could later add a Herschel wedge to do white light with the same scope.

I have the ED100 but don't image with it, only because I have the Equinox 120 with the same focal length, so I feel I might as well use that, but the 100 gives a cracking view in white light with a Herschel wedge and in h-alpha with the Quark, no reason I can see it wouldn't image well too. The ED100 is my favourite scope for visual with the Quark, as it's a joy to use on my Giro mount with a sweet ratio of aperture to weight.

I am really enjoying the closer up views and detail with the Quark in the larger aperture scopes, but if you prefer full disc images then I would probably go for a Lunt 50 if the early reports for imaging are fine or a Lunt 60 or SolarMax 60 depending on price/availability. The Quark has an integrated 4.3x Barlow, upping your focal length, though I use a 0.5x reducer with it, bringing it closer to 2x.

re: helical focusers, they are a bit of a weak point on the stock SolarMax 60 (though I would say worth putting up with if the price is right), but who knows with the Lunt 50, it might be a better helical, we'll see. The helical focuser on my Tele Vue 60, which I also use with the Quark, is very nice. It will be interesting to see how the Lunt 50's focuser fares!

[David Smith]

Wise words above

I played with imaging with my PST and DSLR and had some success but the images took a big hike in quality when I picked up a mono camera at IAS earlier this year. I have the QHY5-II mono which has the same sensor as the ASI. Similar to Robin, I do not see any Newton rings with this camera / scope combo but when I add my Revelation barlow it's a different story. I purchased a Baader 2.25x barlow recently and first impressions are that the Newton rings are lesser when I use this (only had one outing so far) so may be some mileage in trying a few different ones to see which works best.

[oldpink]

wise advice as ever from the SGL community
gives me time to think about this and examine the pro's & cons
I thank you for your input and I'm open to more

thanks

John

[Notty]

Just me but for £2k I would consider a Daystar Quark Chromosphere, Skywatcher ED100 DS-Pro scope and Point Grey Blackfly USB3 mono camera. You could later add a Herschel wedge to do white light with the same scope.

Am I right you also need an ERF for a scope larger than an 80 using the Quark?

Also have a look at the Point Grey Chameleon USB2 camera as a great alternative to the Blackfly if you don't have USB3 hardware. They are roughly the same price I think. I use it and it's a great little camera for solar with no newton banding whatsoever.

[Luke]

Depending on the scope and its aperture, you may need to use a suitable UV/IR cut in front of the diagonal (costing about £70 I think) or front Energy Rejection Filter (more expensive!). I would read up the info on the Quark on Daystar's webpage, you can also download the manual from there with some good info. And if in any doubt, ask them what you need for your scope. As it is a safety issue, I will leave that advice to the PRO's!!

Some other potential Quark expenses: Plossls in the range of 25 to 40mm are recommended for visual (they mention Tele Vue), and you might want to use a rechargeable battery instead of the included power supply (about £40 unless buying the one Daystar supplies, which to me seems overpriced compared to other units folks are using). A nice cable, about £5 to £20! A 0.5x reducer (I use a 1.25 inch one from Telescope House) about £20 to £30. My reducer also works with 1.25 inch eyepieces to widen the view with the Quark

The Chameleon would probably have been my choice in that price range before the Blackfly USB3 with a faster frame rate came out. Even on a USB2 laptop I would still consider the Blackfly USB3! Needs checking for the Blackfly, but my Point Grey Grasshopper 3 (USB3) works surprisingly well all things considered on a £300 USB 2 laptop.

I get full frame rate of 26FPS in 8 bit mode with my 2.8MP Grasshopper 3 (ICX687 chip) on a £300 USB 2 laptop, and in 16 bit mode, I get about 16 FPS (full frame rate in 16 bit mode is also 26FPS). That was better than I was expecting! The main advantage I find of 16 bit is that it can capture proms and surface detail both quite well in the same movie. In 8 bit mode, the proms tend to come out poorly unless the exposure time is increased and the disc is overexposed, so in 8 bit mode I shoot proms separately.

My Grasshopper 3 shows some Newton's Rings with a SolarMax 60 when using a strong Barlow (2.5x Powermate or 3x Tele Vue) - I don't notice any rings with a 2x Barlow or at prime focus. With the Quark, there are also Newton's Rings with the Grasshopper 3 on my gear at prime focus (running through the Quark's integrated 4.3x Barlow), but it looks clean to me when adding the 0.5x reducer. That feels kind of in line with the SolarMax when you take the Barlow factor into account.

You can try to combat Newton's Rings (e.g. with a tilt adjuster), but at the moment I am happy just using the 0.5x reducer with my 900mm focal length scope. That also places a bit less demand on the quality of the seeing than at the longer focal length with prime focus.

Am I right you also need an ERF for a scope larger than an 80 using the Quark?

Also have a look at the Point Grey Chameleon USB2 camera as a great alternative to the Blackfly if you don't have USB3 hardware. They are roughly the same price I think. I use it and it's a great little camera for solar with no newton banding whatsoever.

[Luke]

I was impressed by your DSLR pics, David It shows it can be done with gear that is not normally recommended. That's interesting that you are using the Baader 2.25x now. My 2.5x Powermate seems to sneak me into Newton's Rings territory with my gear. 2X Barlow seems okay though.

Wise words above

I played with imaging with my PST and DSLR and had some success but the images took a big hike in quality when I picked up a mono camera at IAS earlier this year. I have the QHY5-II mono which has the same sensor as the ASI. Similar to Robin, I do not see any Newton rings with this camera / scope combo but when I add my Revelation barlow it's a different story. I purchased a Baader 2.25x barlow recently and first impressions are that the Newton rings are lesser when I use this (only had one outing so far) so may be some mileage in trying a few different ones to see which works best.

[Luke]

Ooops, sorry folks, my mistake, please ignore what I said about USB2. My £300 lappy is in fact USB3...

:iamwithstupid:

Even on a USB2 laptop I would still consider the Blackfly USB3! Needs checking for the Blackfly, but my Point Grey Grasshopper 3 (USB3) works surprisingly well all things considered on a £300 USB 2 laptop.

[oldpink]

had a look at the daystar but the 2 versions put me off, would rather a single setup that can do both

the CCD upgrade will be made soon with a similar budget, Atik 460 is one of the choices I'm considering

[PeterW]

You could get a moderate refractor and then add a wedge and continuum+ir block filter for white light. You might like to consider adding a CaK filter..... Though you could spend the money on a larger halpha scope or a double stack filter.... In solar you will never have enough money!

Good luck, no late nights or worrying about light pollution... Though you will still be cursing the clouds!

Cheers

PEterW

[Zakalwe]

isnt it mostly CMOS sensors that suffer with "newton rings" i would go for a DMK21au618 mono camera.

Great cameras and very sensitive in H-a, but the tiny sensor will drive you insane after a bit....