A bit of help please - First Attempts

[CosmicOrangutan]

Hi Everyone,

I took my first steps into astrophotography last night and now have a few questions

I am Using a 130 pds and Canon 600d (unmodded) mounted on a HEQ5 with Synscan.

After polar aligning, getting everything balanced etc i turned my attention to M81 and M82 as a first DSO target. I tried to use the Live View on my Canon to get a picture on the digital screen so i could obtain focus but the screen just remained black with no stars showing at all on the screen at the back of the camera. Therefore i could not obtain proper focus with a bright star in order to get a well focused image.

Below is a single 30 second exposure of M81+ M82 raw and unedited with me trying to guess the focus. 

After a few attempts at guessing the focus for this DSO i decided to turn to Jupiter as i thought as it is alot brighter that it should show through Live View. I had everything lined up and tracking through my 10mm eyepiece but when i attached the camera there was again nothing at all showing through the live view screen. 

It is quite annoying as i have managed to photograph the Moon using Live view with my small refractor but nothing appears on the screen at all using this reflector. 

Finally i tried just digiscoping the DSLR through my 10mm eyepiece, holding the T-adapter to the eyepiece this did show the disc of the planet in the Live View screen but i was obviously unable to obtain a decent image as it couldnt focus on Jupiter.

Can anyone offer any advice on gaining focus on the Planets or DSO's using a DSLR and does anyone know how to get Live view showing stars or planets on the digital screen at the back of the Camera in order to help me focus?

Thanks in advance to anyone able to help,

George 

PS - I have a copy of 'Making Every Photon Count' in the post as we speak

[Virgo]

I can't give any help George but i will be keeping an eye on this thread as i hope to try my hand at Astrophotography very soon myself.

[oldpink]

Hi there
did you try using the zoom on the camera live view, I do this to get a better focus on stars
also your focus point for the Camera and your eye piece will be different

I tend to use a 25mm eye piece to get the target, then swap to the camera then refocus using the zoom mode in live view
then take a couple of preview shots at about 10s and check it before running the subs

[Alien 13]

I am not sure what camera settings you where using but you should see plenty of stars on the live view screen, i normally set my ISO to 3200 and shutter to 5 seconds to get a bright image on liveview once focussed zooming in helps to see more stars. The camera settings can then be returned to normal once you have done the focus thing.

Alan

[CosmicOrangutan]

Thanks guys, I did try both the 5x and 10x zoom while in live view but with no results. At 10x there were a few twinkling points of light but they would only be visible for a second before disappearing and would not give me enough to use as a focusing point. The camera was set at 1600 ISO when using live view so i will try a higher ISO next time. However i would have thought Jupiter would have shown up at 1600 ISO as it is still quite bright in the night sky.

I know i had Jupiter centered in the Field of View as i would keep changing between the eyepiece and Camera to check it was still tracking. I tried to take a short video capture and a half second still picture at ISO 1600 and 800 but nothing showed up at all and the subs were completely black.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Well done getting a decent sub, especially if you had to focus by guesswork.

Focussing on a star can be very tricky when using liveview, I'd advise boosting the ISO right up in order to see anything. Jupiter should definitely show up, my best guess is that it was badly out of focus after swapping out the eyepiece. The focal point for the camera and eyepiece will be very different.

The brightness of a star in liveview will be determined by the f number of the scope/lens attached, the ISO number and the exposure time (although my 1100D doesn't seem to respond to anything longer than about a second). Your scope is f5, so liveview isn't going to show much at ISO 1600. Personally, I've struggled to focus unless the Moon or a planet has been visible with a kit lens at f3.5, although I need to try ramping up the ISO next time.

[PeterCPC]

I have found the answer to these issues to be:

1. Get a Bahtinov mask to help with focusing and

2. Get Backyard EOS then your computer will control the camera.

You will find the image on your computer to be quite bright and focusing using the mask is a doddle. BYE also helps you to focus.

Peter

[stargazerslivingroom]

Plus 1 for Backyard EOS...Brilliant software for controlling Canon cameras and will fix all your focus issues.

HTH

Steve

[oldpink]

for Jupiter put your camera into movie mode you should be able to see it then
 

BYEOS as mentioned is also great for planetary work and well worth getting
once you find the focus point its a good idea to mark where it is, I use a permanent marker and put a small line on the focus tube

so I can go right to it when I swap from eye piece to Camera

[CosmicOrangutan]

OK thanks, i will have a look at Backyard EOS, what cable do i need to run from the camera to my PC? is it the same USB cable you use to transfer images across and where can you find a really long cable?

Any other tips about using Canon Live View would be very welcome as im going to be waiting a while before i can afford the extra bits to get my laptop involved. It would be great to still be able to get some clear shots in the mean time so i can practice my technique and post processing.

[PeterCPC]

Yep, it's the very same cable. You can get USB extensions easily on E Bay but don't make it too long as the signal will be degraded.

Peter

[edjrgibbs]

APT is also a great bit of free software. I've found with APT you need a pretty bright star for focusing via liveview. I cant recommend a Bahtinov mask enough, one of the best £20 I've spent!

[Tommohawk]

I wondered if you were simply miles out of focus - but your sub looks pretty good so it cant be that. I use a Nikon and from memory when shooting M82/M81 I dont find any stars bright enough to show on liveview either. I have to find some other random star, not too bright or too faint, focus on that that and then return to target to shoot.

Believe me thats a whole lot easier with Synscan that star hopping.

Dont want to hijack your thread but can I ask you a question? - well two really.

I'm going to switch to Canon I think, so would be interested to know if Liveview is any brighter than the NIkon . I think youve answered the question really - its not any brighter by the sound of it. Specifically, does the ISO setting make any difference to the Liveview image?

Also, if shooting with Live view, does the image remain on the screen for as long as the exposure continues? I thought I read that theres a 30 second limit.

BTW I'm only a relative noob myself, but for a guesswork focus single sub I'd say thats a pretty good start!

[CosmicOrangutan]

Thanks to everyone that's posted, looking forward to the next clear night!

Tommohawk - in regards to your questions; the live view does change in brightness depending on your ISO setting. When photographing the last full moon I remember that changing the ISO did show a darker or brighter Moon through the Canon Live View before firing the shutter. Unfortunately last night it didnt dawn on me to up the ISO setting past 1600 to see if that would get stars to appear, next clear night i will try a higher ISO and set it back down to 1600 for the actual sub.

Once the shutter opens all the lights on my Camera turn off including the Live View screen. One small Red/Orange LED remains on at the bottom right of the Camera to show that the cameras shutter is open. When photographing the Moon i also found that the Live View would only stay on for 30 seconds (very annoying when trying to line up and focus your shot). I have got round this by changing the Auto Power Off settings in my menu to indefinite. Now the Live View Screen remains on constantly (apart from when you fire the shutter) which is great for getting everything lined up and focused

[Tommohawk]

Thanks to everyone that's posted, looking forward to the next clear night!

Tommohawk - in regards to your questions; the live view does change in brightness depending on your ISO setting. When photographing the last full moon I remember that changing the ISO did show a darker or brighter Moon through the Canon Live View before firing the shutter. Unfortunately last night it didnt dawn on me to up the ISO setting past 1600 to see if that would get stars to appear, next clear night i will try a higher ISO and set it back down to 1600 for the actual sub.

Once the shutter opens all the lights on my Camera turn off including the Live View screen. One small Red/Orange LED remains on at the bottom right of the Camera to show that the cameras shutter is open. When photographing the Moon i also found that the Live View would only stay on for 30 seconds (very annoying when trying to line up and focus your shot). I have got round this by changing the Auto Power Off settings in my menu to indefinite. Now the Live View Screen remains on constantly (apart from when you fire the shutter) which is great for getting everything lined up and focused

OK thanks thats really helpful. I had a cunnig plan to use the liveview image as an autoguide image - I've seen this mentioened as an idea elsewhere but no positve reports that it can actually be done. If the liveview image cuts out when doing the sub, then its a non-starter.

Cheers and good luck with the imaging - and good luck with the clear sky too!

[lensman57]

Hi Everyone,

I took my first steps into astrophotography last night and now have a few questions

I am Using a 130 pds and Canon 600d (unmodded) mounted on a HEQ5 with Synscan.

After polar aligning, getting everything balanced etc i turned my attention to M81 and M82 as a first DSO target. I tried to use the Live View on my Canon to get a picture on the digital screen so i could obtain focus but the screen just remained black with no stars showing at all on the screen at the back of the camera. Therefore i could not obtain proper focus with a bright star in order to get a well focused image.

Below is a single 30 second exposure of M81+ M82 raw and unedited with me trying to guess the focus. 

After a few attempts at guessing the focus for this DSO i decided to turn to Jupiter as i thought as it is alot brighter that it should show through Live View. I had everything lined up and tracking through my 10mm eyepiece but when i attached the camera there was again nothing at all showing through the live view screen. 

It is quite annoying as i have managed to photograph the Moon using Live view with my small refractor but nothing appears on the screen at all using this reflector. 

Finally i tried just digiscoping the DSLR through my 10mm eyepiece, holding the T-adapter to the eyepiece this did show the disc of the planet in the Live View screen but i was obviously unable to obtain a decent image as it couldnt focus on Jupiter.

Can anyone offer any advice on gaining focus on the Planets or DSO's using a DSLR anhtinov md does anyone know how to get Live view showing stars or planets on the digital screen at the back of the Camera in order to help me focus?

Thanks in advance to anyone able to help,

George 

PS - I have a copy of 'Making Every Photon Count' in the post as we speak

Don't waste your time trying to get focus of mag 7 galaxy using the live view of a terretrial camera. You either use a Bahtinov mask on a very bright star using the zoom function of the liveview or you use software assisted focusing. APT, Back Yard Eos and Nebulasity allow you to do this. I use APT if I am in the mood for DSLR imaging and the FWHM assisted focus usually gives very reliable result You really need to forget about daytime photography techniques while doing AP, they are mostly not compatible if at all.

A.G