advice on imaging equipment

[Eeyarn]

hi im just after some advice on buying a good imaging setup, ive done alot of reading about AP and tried a little on my current scope (5 inch reflector on an EQ5 with duel axis motor) and now realize how hard it is, so wanting to make it as easy on myself as i can. Ive got around £1200 to spend initially on the scope and mount and will be adding to it as i progress (guide scope etc). this is what im thinking so far, for mount HEQ 5 Pro or celestron advanced VX. for OTA ive been looking at a few, SW evostar 80ED, SW 200p DS or the SW Quatro F4. all have their Pros and cons to me but was wondering if anyone whos used them for imaging has any advice or can recommend anything else in my price range. any advice is much apreciated thanks

[LouisJB]

I'm no expert, but I can offer a little help. I have an HEQ5 pro, I think it's great, so far no issues. I have a 130 (5") and a 200P style tube. While I do plan to image with the 200P it's a big lump and the FOV narrower of course - so it suits some targets more than others and vice versa a wider field will suit others better.

As if often said, it comes down to what you want to image firstly.

For wide-field the ED80 or something like a 130 or 150 PDS would be very nice on the HEQ5 Pro. I may still image a lot with my 130P as it's so easy (if it works with the coma corrector) or if not get a 150PDS, simply because there is no single do-it-all tube. Probably the 200P is that, but it's fairly heavy and by the time you've added guiding... 

that's the other thing, you'll probably want to consider guiding in budget to start getting good results, otherwise a lot of time and effort is required every time you set up to attempt perfect alignment.

and don't forget to allow budget for a coma corrector (or flattener/reducer for a refractor) if you don't have one already.

In any case you're unlikely to go wrong with HEQ5 pro or NEQ6 mounts unless you're getting an even heavier tube at some stage.

From what I've read <F5 like the quattros is another potential source of problems that may prevent you imaging.

What camera would you be using, what do you want to image - probably those two things would be important variables in the choice of equipment...

[steppenwolf]

Assuming that you are interested in imaging deep sky objects, the HEQ5 and Evostar 80ED would be a really good start. AP needs all the help it can get so using a well proven system like this will make the journey a little easier. Make sure that you budget for a field flattener and  start saving for an auto-guiding system

[Stephen]

Assuming that you are interested in imaging deep sky objects, the HEQ5 and Evostar 80ED would be a really good start. AP needs all the help it can get so using a well proven system like this will make the journey a little easier. Make sure that you budget for a field flattener and  start saving for an auto-guiding system

Seconded

[jgs001]

Steve has already said everything I would. What he missed was that you should get hold  of a copy of his book 'making every photon count' before spending money on kit.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
 

[LouisJB]

I think new the ED80, HEQ5 pro and reducer flattener would be around £350 + £750 + £150 = £1250

With that you'd have around 500mm focal length and F6.3ish for imaging.

Do consider what you want to image though and what camera you plan to use, so you get the right image scale. The parts need to work well together to achieve what you want it to... 

[Eeyarn]

yeah sorry forgot to add that part haha its deep sky stuf im more interested in and ill be using a canon 1100d.

yeah i was really leaning towards 80ed but whichever scope i choose i also going to be used for visual as much as photography and so wanted the larger aperture, hmmmmm decisions. 

ill struggle to get a guiding system aswell as i also dont have a laptop at the moment.

also has anyone used any of the standalone auto guiders? any good?

[Eeyarn]

also thanks all for the quick replies

[LouisJB]

ok so an alternative maybe a 150PDS and put an ST80 on top, on an HEQ5 - that way you can get some visual use out of it. 

750mm focal length at F5 native, so ideal for imaging, still light for the HEQ5 pro

No idea on stand-alone guiders, the QHY5L-II guides nicely if you have a spare laptop to run PHD on... ahhh just read you don't. Well Skywatcher do a stand alone guider - a synguider, might be worth a look...

[laser_jock99]

The Quatro's and similar fast Newtonians are not for the faint hearted. Above all you would need a bigger mount to hold these much bigger scopes steady (at least an EQ6) and that means more money. Then the scopes themselves require a bit of fettling to make them work. I wouldn't recommend them for beginners.

[frugal]

Before you buy a scope, have a look here: http://www.blackwaterskies.co.uk/p/imagingtoolbox.html

You can select the scope, camera and target and it will show you what that target will look like in the field of view of your selected scope and camera. Very useful as you can pick a scope like the ED80 and your 1100D and then select the targets you are interested in to see how they will frame in your scope.

[Eeyarn]

yeah iv heard they're temperamental esp when it comes to colimating, think i was just drawn in by the F4. think ill have to look into the 150pds. i was saving for a heq5 pro or eq6 a bit back but went to an astronomy shop not too far from me and just ended up buyin my eq5 with motors, got too impatient an dont wanna end up doing the same again.

[LouisJB]

you can set up your (potential) equipment in stellarium too, so this will show you what will land on the sensor and give you a sense of image scale / fov.

F5 should be fast enough for imaging, seems to a be a sweat-spot between speed and sensitivity to colmination etc.

[Eeyarn]

thanks frugal gunna have a look through some now

[ollypenrice]

I totally agree with Steve. (What, two astrophographers who agree with each other? Surely not!!) 

The HEQ5 is great. Put a small refractor on it and remove a few of the variables that make imaging the tricky business that it is...

Olly  http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/22435624_WLMPTM#!i=2266922474&k=Sc3kgzc

[laser_jock99]

yeah iv heard they're temperamental esp when it comes to colimating, think i was just drawn in by the F4. think ill have to look into the 150pds. i was saving for a heq5 pro or eq6 a bit back but went to an astronomy shop not too far from me and just ended up buyin my eq5 with motors, got too impatient an dont wanna end up doing the same again.

Personally I love the 'fastness' of these Newtonians- for this I don't think they can be beaten. Collimating them is not the problem. Making them HOLD collimation (and to some extent focus) is the problem. Modifications are needed to make them work- as received from the factory you'll struggle.

[lensman57]

hi im just after some advice on buying a good imaging setup, ive done alot of reading about AP and tried a little on my current scope (5 inch reflector on an EQ5 with duel axis motor) and now realize how hard it is, so wanting to make it as easy on myself as i can. Ive got around £1200 to spend initially on the scope and mount and will be adding to it as i progress (guide scope etc). this is what im thinking so far, for mount HEQ 5 Pro or celestron advanced VX. for OTA ive been looking at a few, SW evostar 80ED, SW 200p DS or the SW Quatro F4. all have their Pros and cons to me but was wondering if anyone whos used them for imaging has any advice or can recommend anything else in my price range. any advice is much apreciated thanks

Your proposed choice of the mounts are very good but I  don't  think much of the choice of your scopes. Nothing wrong with any of them as they are all poular but also all very different in terms of the targets they attack. You need to consider what it is you wish to image and then you can decide what scope, FL, Fratio is suitable or the task. This is the main reason most of us end up with atleast a couple of scopes as there is no universal imaging scope invented yet. 

A.G

[Sp@ce_d]

Assuming that you are interested in imaging deep sky objects, the HEQ5 and Evostar 80ED would be a really good start. AP needs all the help it can get so using a well proven system like this will make the journey a little easier. Make sure that you budget for a field flattener and  start saving for an auto-guiding system

Wot he said

I totally agree with Steve. (What, two astrophographers who agree with each other? Surely not!!) 

The HEQ5 is great. Put a small refractor on it and remove a few of the variables that make imaging the tricky business that it is...

Olly  http://ollypenrice.smugmug.com/Other/Best-of-Les-Granges/22435624_WLMPTM#!i=2266922474&k=Sc3kgzc

 and wot he said

There's so much to get to grips with on the AP learning curve, you'll want to make it as easy on your self as possible.

The 80ED has great optics for it's class & the HEQ5's a nice manageable mount.. assuming you're not going to be Obsy based. Otherwise push the boat out for the EQ6. With a DSLR you'll get a good FOV for plenty of targets to hone your skills on.

You will want to guide though and I'd recommend using a finder guider setup with the 80ED.. keeping it nice & light on the mount.

[LouisJB]

Your proposed choice of the mounts are very good but I  don't  think much of the choice of your scopes. Nothing wrong with any of them as they are all poular but also all very different in terms of the targets they attack. You need to consider what it is you wish to image and then you can decide what scope, FL, Fratio is suitable or the task. This is the main reason most of us end up with atleast a couple of scopes as there is no universal imaging scope invented yet. 

A.G

This is exacly what I was trying to say. Don't get a scope for the sake of it being 'good' for AP', there's lot to chose from there. As well as it being a suitable match for the mount also consider what you primarily want to image - widefield (ED 80 etc) or narrower field (whatever, probably a fast reflector, for smaller targets, esp. if using a DSLR with APS-C or worse a FF sensor). If you want to dabble with imaging small targets, small galaxies, planetary nebula and actual planets then the widefield route may not be an ideal match.

Also you mention wanting to use it visually, again here aperture matters...  A 130PDS, 150PDS and ED80 will all zip around on the HEQ5 perfectly, so no issues with those tubes and mount combo as such.

You might get away with an F4 scope if you're prepared to put in the time, personally that's not a path I've gone down as there are already tons of variables to account for, including guiding and the weather meaning you'll want to maximise your imaging time in all other ways possible.

What I would suggest though is stay below 1000mm focal lengths otherwise you're going to be jumping straight into the realm of more advanced imaging and critical mount/guiding requirements. Put that with a bad match of tube and mount and a fast tube into the equation and you'd never get any imaging done, you'd spend forever fiddling around!

HTH, good luck!

[Sp@ce_d]

Of course, it is down to individual confidence & capabilities but I do think you have to be careful not to bite off more than you can chew when starting out. You don't want to be put off with a bad experience. Shorter wide field setups are generally more forgiving & easier to cut teeth on. Add to that the limited sky time we get in the UK and you'll want to have something to show for the effort. For instance RobH on here a very experienced AP er has taken 3 years to perfect his longer FL RC scope. Lesser mortals may have not have had the patience.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[swag72]

AP is a great hobby, but never underestimate the difficulty that comes with it. To this end, if you want to start getting results from the off and not getting disheartened with it, the HEQ5 and an 80ED is a perfect starting point .............. but not for visual. I've never actually looked through my current scope, but as I understand it, visual and imaging have very different requirements. Could you perhaps consider a second hand dob for your visual fix while you are imaging.

[Eeyarn]

thanks for all the info people. think its now between the ed80 and the 150pds will definitely keep thinking about it.anything else i should be getting with scopes reducer for the ed80? is it going to make a noticable difference? enough to pay an extra £160?

has anyone whos used either of these have any images i can see along with info (exposure times number of subs etc) just to get an idea of what i can aim for. 

[LouisJB]

I have been trying to image with an F5, anything much slower could start to be a bit of a limitation, so the reducer really serving to also speed up (as well as flatten) the refractor OTA will be money well spent

I've never used an ED80, but I could consider using one, but from the other side I think you wont have a load of issues with a 150 or 130PDS in any case either. You will need to colminate a newt, but you could use them visually - sort of a trade-off really.

The advantages of the F5 newts will be their native speed and focal length (depending what you're imaging of course), and also newts have no false colour. So a newt could serve both purposes reasonably well, or instead get the dob as suggested above for visual then you could get anything for imaging and not care about it visually. The main advantages of the ED80 are no cool down or colmination and it's lightweight.

No single tube does everything, it's that simple. An ED80 would really be an imaging only setup, so if you go that route you might think of priorities or getting other kit to compensate for the visual side.

In all cases lower focal lengths are easier to work with, that's just the nature of long exposure photography and nothing to do with the tube type.

[Sp@ce_d]

I'm slightly confused now. I thought we were discussing an imaging rig? I thought you already had an EQ5 with a 5" reflector for visual?

Yes, you will need the Reducer/Flattener to reduce it down to 6.35 & give you a flat field.

Have a look through the gallery here for examples (a lot of mine are in combination with other scopes from the dual/triple shooter setup so not the best to give you a true representation) also have a search on astrobin for 80ED results... such as..

http://www.astrobin.com/search/?q=80ED&search_type=0&license=0&license=1&license=2&license=3&license=4&license=5&license=6&telescope_type=any&telescope_type=0&telescope_type=1&telescope_type=2&telescope_type=3&telescope_type=4&telescope_type=5&telescope_type=6&telescope_type=7&telescope_type=8&telescope_type=9&telescope_type=10&telescope_type=11&telescope_type=12&telescope_type=13&telescope_type=14&telescope_type=15&telescope_type=16&telescope_type=17&telescope_type=18&telescope_type=19&telescope_type=20&telescope_type=21&telescope_type=22&camera_type=any&camera_type=0&camera_type=1&camera_type=2&camera_type=3&camera_type=4&camera_type=5

Edit: also have a play with the FOV calc here.. http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php

[LouisJB]

The OP said:

yeah sorry forgot to add that part haha its deep sky stuf im more interested in and ill be using a canon 1100d.

yeah i was really leaning towards 80ed but whichever scope i choose i also going to be used for visual as much as photography and so wanted the larger aperture, hmmmmm decisions. 

...

And as there is no single OTA that can do everything... hence the discussion really. I don't think the ED80 is the only option, although if it were imaging only it would be a natural place to start...