M45 - just a group of stars

[Nigele2]

Only joking.  Last night after seeing Brian Cox on BBC2 I rushed out with my refractor.  Did Jupiter while hoping Orion would get above tree/house line but he didn't botther.  So I focused on M45 Pleiades, seven sisters, really high in the sky and hoped a glimpse of a smudge that might be IC349 Merope nebula.

Stellarium gave me a good idea of what I might see but despite the sky looking good with the naked eye M45 just looked like very small pin lights clustered in a mist.  However easily found with the scope the little shining jewels looked fabulous even at 21x mag.  Tried all three EPs 32, 12 and 5 (140 mag) and good results with each.  I mapped out the stars and despite my bad perspective no question this was M45.  But look as I might I couldn't identify nebula.  But I could see hundreds of little tiny stars in the background.

So with the forecast for tomorrow night looking excellent I'm going to get the reflector set up and with my 5mm will have 200 mag in my armoury (and with a barlow 400 but expect that won't be too successful).  And I have a few filters to add to the concoction.

So my question:  should I have a chance of seeing nebula in M45?  Or am I asking too much of the kit I have?

Don't get me wrong chuffed to bits exploring this little patch of sky.  My first DSO 

[Steve Ward]

You'll need a big aperture and a very dark sky to see any nebulosity by eye , it's easily picked up in a photograph though .

[nicks90]

will a uhc filter help?

[acey]

First and foremost, the Pleiades nebulosity requires a very dark sky. Secondly it requires optics with minimal light scattering (i.e. very clean, and preferably a refractor rather than reflector). The very existence of the nebulosity was doubted by many experienced 19th century visual observers who were unable to see it - it was only with the advent of photography that it was conclusively proved. I've yet to see the nebulosity for certain - I've sometimes suspected it, but you need to look at other stars for comparison, to see if there is any "false nebulosity" from light scattered by atmospheric haze or telescope optics. Under the right conditions it's pretty easy, apparently - the hard bit is getting those conditions. A filter won't help as its reflection nebulosity, not emission - any filter would just make it harder to see. First bit to be discovered (and the first to look for) is the Merope Nebula, NGC 1435, which is about the same size as the full moon, and was found (if I remember correctly) by Tempel using a 4" refractor. As the name suggests, it surrounds the star Merope, whose glare makes the nebula very hard to see. There's also visible nebulosity around Maia (NGC 1432), and a small patch of NGC 1435 - brighter than the rest but very near to Merope so even harder to see - is designated IC 349 (discovered by Barnard using the 36" scope at Lick Observatory).

It has been a matter of debate whether the nebulosity is material associated with the formation of the cluster, or else dust through which the cluster just happens to be passing. I think the latter view is currently more widely held.

[bomberbaz]

I think I have but having just read acey's point about looking at other non nebula type stars I cannot be sure. I am off to fuertaventure tomorrow and aim to get somewhere very dark for an hour or so atvleast one night (the canaries are very dark and have good skies) so maybe I can comment better in a week

Steve

[faulksy]

have a great time steve

[bomberbaz]

have a great time steve

Cheers faulksy, I aim too buddy

[Scott]

I think with M45 sitting so close to a bright moon, you'll be really struggling to see any Nebulosity although I'll be quite happily corrected

[bomberbaz]

Dam, forgot about that. Might stick my deep sky filter in, not sure if it will help but I lije experimenting. Moon I hate u, sometimes

[acey]

Fuerteventura is very nice and dark - I had my first view of Omega Centauri from there. Viewing will get easier after full moon on 16th Jan.

[Tiny Small]

Just to digress a little... M45 is my favourite object in the night sky. They are only around 50 or so millions years old, meaning that when dinosaurs walked the earth, those stars were not there. The first mamals did not see those stars and in the same amount of time that dinosaurs existed for, they will be gone (at least, the cluster will no longer be there) and no being will see them again as we see them now. Thinking of this beautiful little cluster like this always makes me smile and appreciate how lucky we are to be here right now. They never fail to take my breath away.

[Nigele2]

Tiny so very true.  To me they actually give the impression of youth.  Shining crisp clean light.  And that nice unmistakable curve with the hook (containing Electra and Tayete) and that snakey tail of little stars drifting off Alcyone and then further over Atlas and his mate Pleione.  And so much going on in the background.  

And Acey what a great post.  Tx.

I'll still try and stare down that nebulocity of course but at least now I know I'm on the right track by not seeing it 

[rwilkey]

I think the nebulosity in M45 is the preserve of AP.