Astrophotography

[Sam Baker]

Hi guys,

Im looking for some info really. Im oicking up a scope this weekend. Celestron 6" . Im getting the required adaptors to attach my canon 600d slr. Will I need any filters to take pictures of nebula and planets etc? Or will it just depend on the settings I use?

Im so new to this I haven't ever used a scope before and really excited for my first time and it seems to be all thats on my mind lately.

Sam

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Astrosurf]

Hi Sam and welcome. To do serious deep sky object (DSO) astrophotography, the minimum mount you would need is the Skywatcher HEQ5 Pro. It's an equatorial mount and so tracks the sky. When you're polar aligned well, you could get up to a minute's exposure (some can get more) but to have the longer exposures for DSOs you would need to autoguide. You can autoguide with this mount. The EQ6 is bigger and more robust but also much heavier and more expensive! The 6" would be fine on the HEQ5 Pro. There are Celestron equivalents of these mounts but I don't know them at all. I'm sure someone will be along soon.

Also, I would read the book 'Making Every Photon Count' before you even start to do imaging! It's the imagers' bible:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

Alexxx

[sidelight]

HI Sam,

Get ready for some of the most fulfilling, annoying, wonderful, frustrating and thought provoking times.  Oh and have I mentioned expensive?  But most of all fulfilling when you look at an image and think "I did that"

About the only advice I have at the moment is to start with something big.  The moon is good place to start, seeing that for the first time through a scope is what started me off and got me hooked, and that was before I even considered a camera.  

You may find your scope (more likely your mount) is not suitable for deep sky stuff (I initially did) and at best it is likely to need lots of preparation and additional equipment, although M42 is about this time or year, thats nice and bright so you might be able to get something by stacking.

Here, Google and youtube are your friends.  Be ready to spend a lot of time in all of them ;-)

For the moon you can get some wonderful shots with short exposures although a filter will increase the contrast, also look at Registax to improve your final image.  Jupiter is also about if you want to try something more challenging.

Cheers

Ross

[Astrosurf]

Good one Ross.

Many people use webcams for planetary and Moon work. Some use DSLRs on video mode but I've not tried that. Then, as Ross said, use Registax to stack the webcam frames to build up the data. You could image planets with a non-tracking mount but it's hard as you need to move the scope manually. But it can work! See here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/200254-first-shot-uranus/

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-201-0-0-1-0.html

You can image planets quite easily with a simple tracking mount so you don't need to go to the expense of the mounts I mentioned! It's just that they won't be good for long-exposure DSO work. Except for brighter ones like M42 and some globular clusters, as Ross said.

Have a look at this too: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/11305-dso-imaging-on-a-budget/

Good luck!

[Sam Baker]

The mount I'll have is a german equatorial mount unfortunately not a sky tracking one so the gist is generally stacking is really important especially without a tracking mount? Im going to give it a good month of just observing before I even dare look at using a camera to take pictures. I want to build up as much info as possible really.

As for expensive wow this hobby makes me feel broke when I look at equipment I need. You guys are all great! Thanks for the help.

Sam

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[swag72]

Definitely get the book 'Making Every Photon Count' before you do anything else. Read it twice before even thinking anymore about AP. Then slowly think about what you want to achieve with regards your imaging and how best you can do it.

Sounds silly, but THE most important thing in AP is the mount. You need a solid one that will track. Most people consider the HEQ5 as a minimum and then often they start with an ED80 refractor (For DSO imaging) - The short focal length puts minimal stress on the mount for guiding. You will not find a 'one size fits all' scope for planetary / lunar and DSO's I'm afraid.

Take a look in the imaging section and look at the images there. Pick those that you wish to aspire to and see what kit it was taken with. Be realistic about what you can and can't achieve with the kit you have.

Also be prepared for processing. Many use Photoshop or PixInsight and be prepared to spend a fair while on learning processing. If you've ever processed any daytime images before, AP is totally different again.

It's a great hobby, I love it, but boy is it frustrating at times and expensive doesn't even begin to cover it!!

If you're still reading at this point, you've probably got what it takes

[Sam Baker]

Im still reading! And I've bought the scope and got the camera which is a waste if I don't use it on something which interests me. So I'd rather get the stuff I need eventually to be able to get something out of this interest/ hobby!

I wish i started this ten years ago!

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Sam Baker]

My partner is a photographer and knows how to use photoshop and lightroom etc. She says she knows about stacking its part of her job. So is stacking AP and DSO images totally different from daytime?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[sidelight]

Sam, If your partner knows about this stacking and understands photoshop you already have a huge advantage over most of me ;-)  After a year and I still find myself randomly clicking buttons looking for the "magically fix his for me 'cause I haven't got a clue" button.  I have had to learn the software as well and now swear by PixInsight (even though I'm still working it out).  I suspect its not completely different, but I have no experience with daytime photography.

No matter what the scope is not likely to be a waste.  Will it be the best or perfect?  Probably not.  Mine certainly wasn't and still isn't - or ever will be.  I have other things I have to spend my cash on, like food, shelter and kids, but then I expect everyone will tell you the same.  I spent time learning how to get the best from what I had, learning skills which had I the kit I have now I wouldn't have (but still benefit from). Realising that I learn something every trip, even if its just how little I know ;-)   

What I can tell you is this hobby is at times frustrating and daunting, and even when the sky is cloudy there can be plenty to do.  As with so many other hobbies you get out what you put in.  What will amaze you is how fast things move in the sky when you look at them through an eyepiece.  I still use the scope I bought then, the mount has recently changed but the scope hasn't.

Would I give this up.  No way. Even though most people around me (including the neighbours) are convinced I've gone mental, I am hooked, and get more hooked each and every time out.

Cheers

Ross

[LouisJB]

Hi, the Celestron C6 has a focal length of 1500mm I believe. That's going to be quite long to start off with for anything like DSO's a nebula.

I have an HEQ5 pro and guiding working (well it seems), yet I'm concerned to go much over 1000mm focal length in the beginning to avoid requiring having a very accurate guiding setup working perfectly.

At 1500mm I suspect unless you're really amazing at polar alignment and drift alignment any unguided exposures longer than a few tens of seconds are likely to be challenging (unless you like star trails!).

However, I think you can get reducers, this will speed up your scope and give a wider field of view, which means you'll be able to take longer exposures with less demands on the guiding.

In terms of nebula, many are very big, so you'd need a much wider field of view anyway. So reducing gets you closer to the two key things you'd need for DSOs like nebula, those being a wider field (shorter focal length) and faster F ratio.

For galaxies (and planetary nebula), many are small so the extra focal length will help, but again the demands on guiding will increase in order to be able to take advantage of it successfully. Not all galaxies are small, the easier targets are all pretty big, M31 and M33 are massive, but M33 for example is dim (so you need longer exposures, hence better tracking matters) 

When it comes to planets however, you're probably going to do better straight away, out of the box. They are bright (so slower scope is not an issue) and are small so require longer focal lengths to get any detail.

Also, you don't need guiding. All the time the planet stays in the field you can capture frames.

Normally planetary imaging is not done with a camera/photoshop. You take video as long as you can (as long as the target stays in the field), then you stack all the frames in the video into 1 more detailed image. You might well adjust it in a photoshop style app after, but that would be the finishing touch.

I'm no expert of planets, I got my first video sequence of jupiter last night in fact. So I'll be learning to process that next myself. Was pleased though to see Jupiter's bands come up on the laptop screen in real-time, it was a great sight to see for the first time from my back-garden

Have fun. If you get into guiding since I just got it working myself I can try and help you - but I'm no expert, others on here will have many years more experience (I got my first telescope set up this year, only about 3 months ago in fact!)

 C

[Sam Baker]

Im really hoping theres clear skies tomorrow night when im not working so I can at least get started on using the scope. Is setting up an equatorial mount difficult?

The more I hear about this hobby the more difficult it appears to be however the more I feel Interested as well. And you guys are giving me enough information to be able to know where to start looking rather than trying to find something in which I may find impossible as a beginner with this.

Thanks alot guys!

Sam

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[swag72]

Regarding your mount, you can do a few bits during the day, such as aligning your finder with the scope and also doing something with your setting circles (Can't remember what it's called!!)

Have a look on the Astrobaby site for everything you'll need.

http://www.astro-baby.com/HEQ5/HEQ5-1.htm

[LouisJB]

if your mount has a polar scope try setting that up during the day so it's ready when you need it, buy following one of the good online guides. Then you'll want to use that and the current date and time to align the scope to true NCP as best you can (true NCP is not Polaris, it goes around Polaris once per day and is just under 1degree away from it).

If not, all I used to do with an eq2 (simple motorised eq mount) was point it visually at polaris then make sure the base was level, then look through the eyepiece and align polaris in the centre by just adjusting the alt and az of the mount. Then I marked the floor and tried to reuse that spot each time, but you still need to make adjustment every time you take it out. This is not that accurate compared to say a polar scope since the tube and eq mount axis may not be in line and since Polaris is not at NCP. You can improve the first issue by nulling out your cone error using the small adjustment screws on the base dovetail bar. However even doing this it still won't be accurate for long exposure DSOs, you'll need some sort of manual drift alignment to get it more accurately aligned should you want to try long exposures. As mentioned, for video/planets the alignment and guiding/tracking is not really very critical. It's when you wan to image DSOs etc you'll need to get that right.

WIth guiding and a goto mount these things get easier. My setup now is approximately plonk the mount down approximately pointing at Polaris, I don't re-level it every time so long as it's roughly level it's fine. Use the polar scope and time/date to align to true NCP as best as possible. Run the mount through 3-star alignment, this compensates for cone errors etc. Then point at what you want, start the guiding, it calibrates and then you're good to go. In practice there's a fair bit of fiddling around, getting focus etc before you can start imaging, but it is a bit easier with a goto mount.

Best thing is get out and try it, that's the best way to learn the ropes

[TenBears]

Also, I would read the book 'Making Every Photon Count' before you even start to do imaging! It's the imagers' bible:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

Alexxx

 Agreed.  I wouldn't even consider "buying" any equipment until you have completely read that book.

[Sam Baker]

Thanks for all your help! You've all been wonderful. I've got my scope today and I've just learned how to polar align it roughly in my living room since theres clouds around. But hey the sky is clearing up so im going to out it to the test as soon as I can. I seem to understand how it works now so im feeling pretty pleased. I just need clear skies, a big flask and a hot water bottle and plenty of clothes and I'll be ready for my first observation!

Thanks again!

Sam

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Sam Baker]

I got my first moon observation last night (well this morning) I waited up until 3am to get a clear view. Its a shame its not a full moon but I was in awe. I was knackered and couldn't sleep when I got to bed due to the excitement of seeing it upclose. When you look at something from the naked eye you don't realise how amazing it really is until you look at it through the scope. Part of me is wishing it were still night time now so I could just gaze for a few more hours!

Sam

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[Zakalwe]

My partner is a photographer and knows how to use photoshop and lightroom etc. She says she knows about stacking its part of her job. So is stacking AP and DSO images totally different from daytime?

Yes. Completely different. in fact, I reckon that it's better to know nothing about "normal" photography. Deep sky imaging is totally alien to the techniques used in "normal" photography.

Im really hoping theres clear skies tomorrow night when im not working so I can at least get started on using the scope. Is setting up an equatorial mount difficult?

The more I hear about this hobby the more difficult it appears to be

Oh yes. And expensive. And frustrating.

 Its a shame its not a full moon but I was in awe.

A full Moon is the worst time to observe or image the Lunar surface. It robs everything of all contrast and texture. Much better when there is some oblique shadows to show the relief in the surface.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/200440-cassini-eudoxus-and-aristoteles/

[Astrosurf]

Setting up an equatorial mount can be frustrating if you don't understand it. But it's a cinch once you get used to it. I'm usually polar aligned in about 10-15 mins. That's quite a long time compared to other people! I'm not the best to explain what I do so I'll leave it to someone else to explain. Do have a look at tutorials on the Web for your mount. Some are better than others. If you don't understand what they're saying, it's a bad tutorial!

[frugal]

 Is setting up an equatorial mount difficult?

Is driving a car difficult? When you first start out it is really hard, but after a while it becomes second nature. Give it some time and you will slowly work stuff out.

[Sam Baker]

The good thing is im a bar worker so when I finish work at like 2am during the week. If the skies are clear it's prime stargazing time

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

[sidelight]

That's just showing off.  I sit at night wondering how the heck I am going to get up for work in the morning and get through the day.  And I still do it again the next night if its clear ;-)

Cheers
Ross

[frugal]

Recently the only clear skies I have seen has been when I was walking to the car at 6am in order to go to work ;(

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk

[Sam Baker]

They're not brilliant but they're my first pictures of the moon taken with my phone through EP. I'm pretty chuffed

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk