International Space Exploration

[Paranoidsam]

With the launch of India's first probe to Mars, and the debate that has ensued over the money involved... I can't help but wonder why there isn't a single, international space agency.

It seems like the logical solution, an organization in which all space faring nations contribute towards scientific space exploration. Including both manner and unmanned missions, space telescopes etc...

Science transcends national borders in all other non-military fields, yet space exploration is still highly political. I'm sure if all space faring countries worked together, instead of going it alone we'd make huge leaps forward. It seems ludicrous that countries still go it alone.

Any thoughts?

[Beulah]

I'm sure it will happen eventually but will most likely be a collaboration of private funding.

[nmoushon]

I think it would be great to do that. But 1. The money involved comes from the governments so naturally the governments want as much control over it as possible. 2. Every country likes to be king of the mountain. The first at this or that. I think we've come a long way from the first space race of the 70s towards cooperation. (think of all the large ground telescopes that are co-built by several countries) But I don't know if we will ever get to one single scientific body. Maybe that could happen if all science didnt rely on government funding but then you get into the greedy coorperation kind of mess if you leave the government funding.

[Cath]

The trouble is, human beings are involved in the mix, which explains why things are like they are.

One thing that this Indian mission has highlighted is the way in which we allow both extreme povety and extreme privilege to coexist without a single thought for the unfortunate.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Also you would have different opinions in destinations. If one country wanted to go to Mars but another Saturn, but another the Moon. Nothing would ever get off the ground.

Matt.

[Bungielad]

Humans........never could get to grips with them!

Bungielad.

[Paranoidsam]

Also you would have different opinions in destinations. If one country wanted to go to Mars but another Saturn, but another the Moon. Nothing would ever get off the ground.

Matt.

I don't think that would be a problem, just as in national space programs it'd have to be budgeted... Money allocated for separate projects. With all the funding and expertise under one roof it could mean more missions and perhaps more ambition.

Once the politics is taken out of the equation it would run like a normal space agency, but with a lot more money and brains.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Thats very true and what is hopefully what would happen. But you could also get the whole 'we dont want to go there so were not putting our money towards it'. Then that would depend on how much was in the pot so to speak.

But it does make alot more sense to have 1 big one. The space station is ran by a few nations so it can be done on a smaller scale.

Matt.

[JB80]

ESA is fairly international I would of thought?

[nmoushon]

ESA is fairly international I would of thought?

Its consisted of a couple countries. It does a lot of collaboration with other groups/countries too though.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Cassini was a NASA/ESA joint mission.

Matt.

[JB80]

Its consisted of a couple countries. It does a lot of collaboration with other groups/countries too though.

There are 20 member states all contributing tens of millions of Euros to the pot. Even Canada is an associate member contributing 15.5 million.

While it is true some states contribute more than others there is no other space based organisation that can call itself truly an international collaboration. The ESA can, and it's open to all of Europe, based all throughout Europe and any European from any state can work there.

Bit more than a couple of countries.

They may work together from time to time with NASA and even encourage it but now they are turning towards Russia since the US has cut loads of funding for these joint effort programs.

[nmoushon]

I actually remember I was talking with my brother one time and we were wishing that if we were billionares we would buy a large island somewhere and  make it into a giant scientific community. Where scientists of any field could come and work on projects without restrictions from governments. The only "rule" would be in the form of an ethics code. Wonder how fast technology would advance if there was someplace like this.

[rowan46]

several reason why it won't happen first you dont want other nations access to your best scientists and technology, space rocket science is readily adaptaptable to military rocket science. Second there is a lot of money to be made from space so you want to keep your economic edge

[nmoushon]

There are 20 member states all contributing tens of millions of Euros to the pot. Even Canada is an associate member contributing 15.5 million.

While it is true some states contribute more than others there is no other space based organisation that can call itself truly an international collaboration. The ESA can, and it's open to all of Europe, based all throughout Europe and any European from any state can work there.

Bit more than a couple of countries.

They may work together from time to time with NASA and even encourage it but now they are turning towards Russia since the US has cut loads of funding for these joint effort programs.

Thanks for the info. I thought its was only like 5-7 of the major countries. 20 is a bit more than a couple lol. So ya I would agree this is the best example of a international collaboration.

[nmoushon]

several reason why it won't happen first you dont want other nations access to your best scientists and technology, space rocket science is readily adaptaptable to military rocket science. Second there is a lot of money to be made from space so you want to keep your economic edge

Thats a good point. Most of NASAs pilots are either still in the Air Force and fly for NASA or retired and fly for NASA. Not to mention all the secret satalite and super sonic space craft the military pays for to get put into space.

[Paranoidsam]

Cassini was a NASA/ESA joint mission.

Matt.

That's partly what made me think of it... Countries are already cooperating on a small scale, so the next logical step would be to extend it to incorporate the rest of the space faring world.

On the other hand, competition has produced great things in the past... Such as the East/West space race culminating with the Apollo landings.

But I think if humans are ever going to do something like walk on Mars, its going to take a combined effort.

[Paranoidsam]

several reason why it won't happen first you dont want other nations access to your best scientists and technology, space rocket science is readily adaptaptable to military rocket science. Second there is a lot of money to be made from space so you want to keep your economic edge

Rocket technology is sufficiently widely known and understood that there wouldn't really be any military secrets at risk. A lot of current launch vehicles were developed from now obsolete ballistic missiles.

[Stargazer_00]

Doesn't alot of the funding into space research result in military technologies?  Almost to the point the actual return on investment is new technology for military use, think Formula 1 developing tech for regular cars.

Also funny I believe velcro came from space tech?  And memory foam, to name only two.

[ronin]

ESA have a similar set up. Different countries put in then the work is allocated on a geo-returns basis. Has some good points and some bad.

The level of politics involved is very high however, would be fair to say that some would rather a project fail then be helpful to another partner. If they reduced this aspect they would launch a lot more satellites at lower costs. Don't mean a minor difference but something that would be quite significant. The people at Noordwijk who allocate the funding out need to get a better grip on it all.

[Joves]

And then here was world peace...

[JB80]

ESA have a similar set up. Different countries put in then the work is allocated on a geo-returns basis. Has some good points and some bad.

The level of politics involved is very high however, would be fair to say that some would rather a project fail then be helpful to another partner. If they reduced this aspect they would launch a lot more satellites at lower costs. Don't mean a minor difference but something that would be quite significant. The people at Noordwijk who allocate the funding out need to get a better grip on it all.

Same can be said for NASA too, I'm a believer that governments should be first to get a grip on the funding. Maybe if they took it more seriously then the agencies would have better grounding. Funding for space technology is despite the big sounding numbers, really minuscule and to think we have achieved so much on a shoestring it would be quite scary to think where we could be if they threw the money of say the defence budget at it.

But yes, the internal and international politics of it all is a mess and can turn quite nasty. When it was announced the US threatened to shoot down the EUs Galileo satellite system(Another joint EU project). They are still against it as they perceive it as a possible threat and currently as Europe is reliant on GPS the US still has the ability to shut down and monitor all EU based activity be it military or civilian.

Then you have the bureaucrats in Brussels whose bottom line is seemingly different from those actually making it happen with some rather silly in my opinion decisions and that is without the funding cuts as well. For instance lets move the whole Galileo HQ to a former Soviet state, not a great move.

Then there is the whole tender process, it should be relatively straightforward but it's like everything a scramble for positioning and funding.

Nothing is simple.

At the end of the day though solace should be sought in the end result and the fact that those on the ground doing the actual work take great pride in what they are creating despite the mess above them.

[Kropster]

The space programmes are controlled by politicians, not scientists...... hence the lack of international efforts and the rampant nationalism displayed.