Synscan Help!

[gpt]

OK, this is doing my nut in! And i hope there is a simple explanation

I bought my scope and eq3-2 mount second hand from a very reliable seller, perhaps worth mensioning

So i finally got a power supply the other day, turned it on...

Handset displayed version - 03.12

Got the warning message, pressed escape

Initialising

Entered my latitude and longitude (west 2 + 28 then north 53 + 6), time (24hr, then it gave me the 12hr with a pm sign), date (american format) etc.

Then i get polaris ha and clock?? Still don't know what this is, or why the clock is displayed 2hrs ahead of me??

After all this it asked me if i wanted to align, i said no for now

So i had a little look through menus. Pressed the rate key, selected 9 and slewed the scope around a bit press. So I'm confident everything is plugged in correctly and that it works perfectly fine!

So annoyingly, once i was used to everything, i went to align the scope, selected 3 star, picked me star.... And nothing! The equipment makes a click sound (no slewing towards the star) and then asks me to adjust with the directional keys.

Even if i do all of this manually, if i try and take a sky tour to say Andromeda - no slewing!

So why can i do this manually by pressing directional buttons, but neither the scope nor my manual buttons work during the alignment process?

Ideas please! I'm going crazy! Only thing i can think of is upgrading firmware but I'm really not sure this is the problem

Thanks

Pete

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[JamesF]

I assume it can't do the tour unless the scope is aligned to start with.  Not sure why it wouldn't move for alignment though.    Did it ask you if you were using daylight savings and what your timezone offset is?

Upgrading the handset may well make sense.  I think the current release is v3.35, so you're a fair way behind.

James

[gpt]

Yep asked me about daylight savings as well. Set it on yes. It only does the movement via the controller before alignment. Once I've pressed to align not even the controller will move it and it wont move on its own even if i do the lot manually...

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[Tinker1947]

Check the alt and long is in the right boxes and the right format.....

[brantuk]

When it asks you to align the star it automatically sets to a very slow rate because it's expecting you to have chosen "Align Scope" at the beginning, then slewed (using the keys) from the assumed "home position" to the first star, which you should now see in the finder. It doesn't need a fast slew rate to center up in the finder (nor the eyepiece for that matter).

It should then ask you to center in the eyepiece after which it auto slews to the next alignment star. The home position is usually with the weights downwards and the mount pointing at the pole star. If you don't start from home it doesn't know where you are pointing or how to align the next star. Hth

(Btw it's hard to detect "centering speed" without looking in the finder or eyepiece because it's so slow)

[gpt]

Every time i have begun i have started from the home position. I know rate 2 was slow and 9 isn't necessary. As i said first time i was just familiarising with controls. Even at a rate of 2, i can see the adjustment handles rotating and hear the motor and cog movements

The latitude and longitude items appear to be in the correct format aswell as i listed the numbers in the first post?

Thanks so far everyone

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[gpt]

So any other ideas why it works before star alignment and yet wont slew to a star during alignment or after?

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[Nibor]

Is it worth having a chat to the seller - they may well have met this situation before and know the solution??

[Ant]

Not sure if this helps or not but a clicking would normally point to an imbalance. Is the scope balanced in RA and Dec?

If the synscan is the same as mine, once you click on the NO to the align option you have to manually go in and tell the mount to track.

Are the axis locks tight?

Cheers

Ant

[gpt]

Yep the axis are locked tight as are the adjustment handles when i am able to use the handset (before star alignment)

Not sure about an in balance anywhere? The motors have no problem moving anything when i am actually able to use the handset.

And the seller will be the point of call if i exhaust all my options, didn't particularly want to pester him but i obviously will if necessary

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[gpt]

Are there any other setup options that could cause it not to Mk love during alignment? Even if it was misaligned surely it should slew? Even to an incorrect location?

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[gpt]

Are there any other setup options that could cause it not to Mk love during alignment? Even if it was misaligned surely it should slew? Even to an incorrect location?

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Not to move! Stupid auto correct!

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[gpt]

Still having trouble with this. Have upgraded the firmware tonight hoping this would solve it and no luck. Has anybody any further suggestions? I'm try in eqmod through the handset as we speak. No luck on first attempt even though it all looks fine

Cant understand why i can use the buttons to move the scope but it wont do it automatically to an alignment star or object location!

Going to really spit my dummy soon.... And i thought golf was frustrating!

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[Paul M]

So just to be sure:

You select 3 star alignment. Choose a star from the menu for your first alignment and then what do you do?

At that point, unless you have set home positions and stuff, Synscan has no idea where the scope is.

On selecting the first star release the clutches slew the scope so that the target is in the field of view then nip up the clutches and center with the handset. Then OK that and select star no.2. Now it should make an attempt to get star 2 in the field because it has a reference from star 1, and you again center it with the handset and so on...

Or have I misunderstood what you are doing?

[gpt]

Is the home position not set with the lat long time and date etc when synscan starts? At this point the telescope i assume believes it is pointing at polaris from them co ordinates?

I enter all of the data as described before.

So even if i do a 1 star align... Surely the scope should slew in some direction?

But as you said I have tried 3 star. Every time the motors make a click and some co ordinates appear on the handset. About a second later the co ordinates show straight 0's and asks me to use the dir to centre. At this point i cant even use the directions to move the scope at all. Even though i could before i started the star alignment process!

I would be happy to show someone step by step recorded video of what I'm doing through whatsapp if anybody uses it....

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[Paul M]

Is the home position not set with the lat long time and date etc when synscan starts? At this point the telescope i assume believes it is pointing at polaris from them co ordinates?

I enter all of the data as described before.

So even if i do a 1 star align... Surely the scope should slew in some direction?

But as you said I have tried 3 star. Every time the motors make a click and some co ordinates appear on the handset. About a second later the co ordinates show straight 0's and asks me to use the dir to centre. At this point i cant even use the directions to move the scope at all. Even though i could before i started the star alignment process!

I would be happy to show someone step by step recorded video of what I'm doing through whatsapp if anybody uses it....

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No, you have to go through some more mount setting up to procedures to set a home position. I'm not the best man to ask about that anyway..

Even on a 1 star alignment the mount hasn't a clue where it is. The zeroing you see is possibly just reporting an offset from some start point. 

So unless you physically center the first star then accept that on the handset it really has no idea where it is! 

That's why this time of year Vega is offered as first choice. Easy to find and everyone knows where it is!!

[gpt]

I'm not seeing any thin else in the manual about additional settings other than the weights pointing directly down and the tripod facing north with the scope looking at the polar star

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[ronin]

Manual says:

Polar align the mount and scope: Basically look through the polar scope and get Polaris in view, Set the Latitude scale of the mount to 53 degrees, then go find Polaris through the polar scope. It is the mount you are aligning.

The seems to be the HOME position.

Do not have power applied or (I am guessing ) Power Off then Power On.

Basically switch the thing On when it is aiming at Polaris.

Long will be 002  28 W, then 53  6 N.

Not sure if the leading 0's are required but check incase.

Your Timezone is 0

For some odd reason I think you may have to give it -0, The manual says + or - and I have the idea that it wants -0.

After that Date and Time, and DST is No or Off, not sure what answer it expects.

Looking at the manual there may be a bug here on DST.

The manual say the scope will ask if March-Nov, however the US DST ends at a different time to ours, Theirs had just changed ours changed in Oct. Think it should be OK but would be nice if it always asked.

Then the scope asks if you want to align. Do the alignment.

I suspect the software will need to go back to the start if you do not as the polar set up will be lost completely.

In effect the scope knows it has moved and is not where it "should" be so deliberately will not align.

Also may be better if 2 star alignment is chosen.

Keep reading of troubles with the 3 star alignment.

[Paul M]

I think it needs a more exhaustive procedure for the encoders to have a real reference. 

My understanding from that process in the book is that you'll just be telling the mount where to park if you ask.

I don't think it tells the encoders where the mount is. It still needs an absolute reference to begin with.

[gpt]

OK, I have not actually gone outside to check polar alignment etc yet, but i am just starting to look at this again today. So i have looked at a few youtube vids and came across this tutorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDC-zct6lvY. Now this guy is indoors... presumably with his polar scope facing north. He selects 3 star alignment (around the 2min mark), and the scope automatically starts slewing towards the required location.

Is this not supporting the argument that the mount should no roughly where it is with the lat, long co ordinates and a mount and telecope facing north towrads  the pole star?

[Paul M]

OK, I have not actually gone outside to check polar alignment etc yet, but i am just starting to look at this again today. So i have looked at a few youtube vids and came across this tutorial http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDC-zct6lvY. Now this guy is indoors... presumably with his polar scope facing north. He selects 3 star alignment (around the 2min mark), and the scope automatically starts slewing towards the required location.

Is this not supporting the argument that the mount should no roughly where it is with the lat, long co ordinates and a mount and telecope facing north towrads  the pole star?

Lat and long are only telling the mount where it is geographically not where the axis are pointing.

I'm no Synscan expert and can only go off my limited experience as a new to GoTo and new to Synscan users

My very first attempt at alignment was as I posted above and was spot on first time!

I selected Vega (or was it Arcturus?) and the scope didn't do a right lot so I slewed it round by hand, got the star in the the field and then centered using the hand control. That was accepted and on choosing the second star it set off on its own and put the star in the field. I centerd it and OK'd it and dotto star no. 3. 

It just worked for me. All I did was polar align(ish) and mounted the scope. Checked polar alignment again. Tweaked it a smidgen and then plugged in Synscan and the GPS mouse (no manual lat long and time for me!). I didn't do any home position stuff. Wasted on me as I have to set up from scratch every time. 

Have you tried manually framing the 1st star then selecting the next star?

Of course, there may be something wrong with your handset, but I'd give my method a try before looking any further.

[Paul M]

PS. I've watched that series of videos before and seem to remember that he did go through a thorough process of setting home and zeroing the setting circles. If you do that then your mount will know where it is from the home position. If not it won't have a clue.

[IanC11]

^{The HA / Clock reading tells you where polaris will be in the polarscope.}

^{To set up the polarscope you remove scope and counter weights ( makes it safer ). Looking through the polarscope rotate the axis until the circle for polaris is in the 12 o'clock position, lock the clutch at this point. Next rotate the RA circle to the zero position. Now enter the required information into the handset, Long, Lat, time, daylight saving time etc.}

^{Then when it gives you the HA / Clock all you have to do is release the RA clutch, turn until the RA setting circle matches the HA setting, then lock the clutch and when you look through the polarscope the polaris circle should be in the position of the clock reading you got, i.e. 2 o'clock position . Then adjust long, lat bolts until polaris is within the circle.}

^{Then carry out alignment process.}

^Ian

[ronin]

One thing to remember is that the scope/mount does NOT know where it is. It ASSUMES it is at the home position.

When it starts up it appears that wherever it is is the Home Position, immaterial even if it is upside down hanging from a tree and spinning round on the end of a rope, it assumes it is upright, level at the tripod top and pointing at Polaris and stationary, at the Long and Lat it has been supplied with.

From what you have written I would say that any movement by you before the alignment causes the software to refuse to perform an alignment. Again the scope presumes that at power up it is at the home position, so any movement that is detects could cause the software to set a status of Home Position Lost, so preventing alignment being performed. This is I suspect the reason to polar align then power up the mount.

These things are not intelligent and certainly not sophisticated.

Aligning inside during the day is easy, set to home position, power on and just say Yes to everything. It will think that magically everything was just right and you can look at walls happily. I do that with the Meades I have to check their operation out. Usually check things with a planisphere. But it is also how I start the things off to go solar observing, keeps the scopes happy and they find and track the sun fairly well then.

[jambouk]

So when the mount is powered on, you can slew to whereever you want, at any speed you want?

But if you want to do a star alignment, after selecting the first star, the mount refuses to slew?

That sounds odd.

Can you slew normally in both RA and Dec axes?

Ideally you should start the alignment process from the home position, but initially for you with this problem it shouldn't make a jot of difference where the mount is pointing if it won't slew at all whilst trying to align.

It is difficult to comment if it is a user error without seeing exactly what you are doing, but i'd have thought even if you were inputting totally illogical date, time, coordinates etc it would still slew somewhere.

Is there sufficient power getting to the mount? Can you manually slew both axes at once outside of the alignment process?

I think you need to communicate with the person who sold it to you.

James