A night of firsts but have questions :)

[stevil]

Hi,

I had my first look at Andromeda last night and was quite underwhelmed, conditions were ok but what I expected to see (using Stellarium) turned out to be a dull grey blob. My goto functionality was working ok so I think it was Andromeda I was looking at and not a satellite.

Does this lack of detail sound about right for a wee Mak?

On the plus side I did see an Iridium flare, what I believe was Neptune (had no luck with Uranus though), believe I split the Double Double, saw a few Messier objects including M35, M36, M38 and the Ring Nebula and Pleiades and saw Saturn (although no cloud detail) all for the first time so went ti bed happy but tired.

The fact I could not see Jupiter's cloud bands but did see the moons : could this be due to it being low in the sky (was just befire 0200) or that my scope was beginning to dew up? I was using 25mm then 12mm eyepieces, my 8mm was all dewed up and unusable by then.

Thanks

Steve

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[stevil]

I should also add, in case you are reading this on a mobile device or Tapatalk and you cannot see my signature, that my scope is a Mak Nexstar 127 SLT.

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[John]

What you saw sounds right for M31, the Andromeda Galaxy. You can see the hazy oval core of the galaxy through small scopes and thats about it. There are a couple of other galaxies, M32 and M110 very nearby - the former looks like a small fuzzy star and the latter a faint oval patch of light but every easy to miss in a small scope. Bear in mind that M31 is a huge object - 6-8 times larger in overall extent than the moons diameter. Often the best views come through large binoculars under very dark skies.

M81 and M82 in Ursa Major are more interesting to look at in many ways - both in the same field of a low power eyepiece as well

They all look nothing like the photos when seen visually though, as you are finding out !

Low altitude and dew could both be the cause of the lack of detail on Jupiter. It's best viewed when it's high in the sky. You can see a couple of the major belts on it pretty easily but getting more detail takes time at the eyepiece and good conditions. All this stuff is really much more subtle than you might believe but, with time, you will start to get more satisfying results.

[todd8137]

Wow under whelmed why ? before you got your scope did you do any research at all ? that grey blob blows me away even in my binos its a lovely site ,di dit not give you a great feeling that you have seen another galaxy like the one where living in? just think how far away it is ,and what could be there ,every time i see it i always think is some one looking back what did you think you would see?

imagine how many stars are in there and may, be just, may be ,one might have some one on it , as i said i have a aray of scopes and binos even naked eye from my ,back garden it fills me with joy and may be its just me but i can not help but get excited ever tine i see it

am sure even in your scope it would look brill that faint blob holds many secrets

pat

[Lorne]

M31 from my garden looks like what you described... a fuzzy blob, but through the same scope and eyepiece at a dark site the view blows your socks off. It fills the view in my 28mm EP showing dust lanes and both companion galaxies, don't write it off our nearest neighbour just yet!!!

[Mattscar]

Celebrate the fact that you found it, identified it and now have a baseline view that can only improve Im yet to see it under dark skies, so I have only seen roughly the same as you, but I can't wait to get somewhere decent and see how much it improves.

[stevil]

Please disregard my note about seeing Saturn, I have still to see that one, what I meant to say was Jupiter!

Thanks for the (mainly) useful comments.

Steve

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[ronin]

With a 127 Mak all you will have seen is the central core. Andromeda is much bigger then most expect and you need 3 degrees to get it all in and preferably 5 degrees to have Andromeda and a bit of the universe on either side.

Impractical with a Mak as that means about 10x magnification, based on a plossl type eyepiece thats a 150mm eyepiece.

As you can find it then try binoculars, if you have reasonable skies then they should allow you to see the cebtral bright smudge and show as very faint the outer arms.

There is not a great deal of structure apparent to us.

[stevil]

Thanks Ronin,

I do have binoculars so will give that a go however I think I will use them away from my back garden. My 2 (female) neighbours will be calling the police if they see me using them in the garden as both houses slightly overlook it. I think I can just about get away with my Mak.

I also think I will give it another go when I head off to work (offshore) as I have a transit from Norway to West Africa coming up next month and its pretty dark at sea. Hopefully that will help.

Steve

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[DeepThought]

Welcome to the underwhelming world of astronomy.

It's all a matter of managing your expectations. The image you saw on Stellarium was probably taken by the Hubble space telescope, or at least by a very good astro-photographer taking long exposures on very expensive kit, a sub £400 goto, although very nice indeed (I should know, I've got one), will never show you views like that.

The same will be true of most of the DSOs you look at, the fun comes in what you CAN see.

Look again at the Andromeda galaxy, see if you can make out the more subtle detail, the way it gets brighter towards the core, the elliptical shape of it (demonstrating the angle at which we are viewing it). Also bear in mind that the Andromeda galaxy is very big, about five times the area covered by the full moon, so you'll not be able to fit the whole thing into view using a 127 mak, just the bright central core.

If you're not already familiar with it, look into a viewing technique called averted vision, this will be especially useful when viewing small and/or feint objects like planetary nebulae, you will be surprised just how much more detail you can pick out when you're not looking straight at something.

Finally, I often recommend that it's a good idea to look at other people's sketches of an object before viewing it yourself. This will show you a far more accurate representation of what you'll actually see than even the most amateur of photographs.

[Stu]

Hi Steve

I seem to post a lot of these screen captures but to me they are useful, hopefully it will help a little.

On the assumption that your eyepiece has a 50 degree afov, I make it that you would be seeing 0.83 degrees of sky in your lowest power (25mm)

This screen grab shows this overlaid on Andromeda, so as already said, you are only looking at the central core. The satellite galaxies are either out of view or right on the edge of the view.

The best way to observe this galaxy is from a very dark site with good dark adaptation, and ideally with a widefield scope. Under these conditions it looks huge, you really do start to get an idea of the full extent.

There are plenty of other targets out there which areas be more suited to your scope, such as globular clusters (m13 etc) and planetary nebulae such as M27 and 57. Dark adaptation and use of averted vision will always help bring out the detail.

Cheers,

Stu

[stevil]

Its all good Not knowing any astronomers in my day to day life I rely quite a bit on advice from this forum hence the posting in "Getting started with Observing". Most if the time I'm a bit of a lurker and read what others say as I cant really contribute.

So, what I saw last night appears to match what I have been told to expect by you (that I was only seeing the core of that galaxy) - I must be doing something right if this is the expected view

I had bought my scope for planetary observing but just wanted to have a look at Andromeda as I was counting down to Jupiter popping its head up. I happy I did, just a shame I didnt see any detail.

Thanks Stu and Deep Thought for your comments following my last posting, both very useful to me.

Cheers

Steve

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[Stu]

Good stuff Steve. Your scope will certainly excel on planets, but, as the owner of a mak too, be reassured that it will be great on a whole range of smaller DSO's too.

Many objects are quite compact and idea for viewing with a mak. Mine eats globular clusters for breakfast, they look fabulous in it.

With M31, you just happened to pick one of the biggest things up there to look at!! :-)

Enjoy, I think we are all waiting for Jupiter to be visible at a sensible hour.

Cheers,

Stu

[Astro Imp]

Its all good Not knowing any astronomers in my day to day life I rely quite a bit on advice from this forum hence the posting in "Getting started with Observing". Most if the time I'm a bit of a lurker and read what others say as I cant really contribute.

By asking questions you are making a contribution as other members gain from the answers as well as yourself.