Viewing the veil nebular

[bendiddley]

Hi all. I tried to find this the other night but couldn't see it. I know i was pointed right at it as i was using my star atlas to help me, but there was nothing. I have moderate light pollution where I am, would that be the problem or do i need to get a filter? Any advice welcome.

[paul mc c]

A UHC filter will show it,I have a 12'' and I can't see it with out it.

[bendiddley]

thanks. i thought i probably needed a filter. do you know what ep would best suit it, i have a 25mm and a 32mm?

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Ya Ben, probably a tough call from your location - as is it with my location, its probably the best time to look for it while its overhead and near the zenith - so should be the darkest part of the sky. I think going from memory, I had better results with the O III filter as against the UHC - S filter (Baader) but these really darken the sky background and give false coloured stars, so you gain in one respect - just being able to see the Veil - but on the other hand - the filtered view will not be as pleasing as with direct vision.

Its what we have to put up with mate - light pollution from where we observe from, the veil covers a massive area of sky - so the magnitudes that accompany these very large low surface brightness objects gives a false impression, the mag is worked out as if the object is a single point of light - I know - crazy - when in fact it covers a few degrees in total.

Visually, its a pity that you can't hook up with another observer - or even a Society - not sure if there's one near you - borrow a filter of two and "try before you buy" - they will help you "see" the Veil, then, when you know what to look for, try and see it with just the ep and no filter - I try this and it seems to work, the O III is a little harsher than the UHC, 1 works better on some objects than others - depends what type (spectra) and how much gas/dust is being ionised by starlight.

Its dooable with the Dob, but as you know the seeing changes from night to night - 1 night its there, the other not, the region near to the Veil also has the North American Nebulae (not seen from here) and I think, off memory the Cocoon Nebula is not far away, tried with the CPC and filters, no good, the tighter grouping of stars where the Cocoon is gave it away for me - but no nebula. Keep at it Ben, think of the idea that its a marathon and not a race, don't get hung up on trying to find every M/NGC/IC/Arps - the list goes on - I find I re - visit the objects that I can see, some night they are there, and others, totally invisible. M1 (the crab Nebula) I find is a good test for "seeing" from my location ( may be from Reading as well) obviously when it rises a little later on - as said - some nights M1 is there and others "invisible" so I stick to the brighter objects and search out some of the brighter Planetary Nebulae - these offer more of a better chance - low powers, they seem star - like, but increase mag and they begin to "shine".

Hope that helps a little Ben - keep at it mate and clear skies to you. Paul.

Edit - Just seen your post mate - the 32mm (lower power) will give you a brighter background sky than the 25mm - its going to be trial and error for you, the 32 will "gain" more sky for you (being able to see more of the object) the 25mm will give you a darker background sky with a little more contrast - so making the object "stand out" a little more - but remember - the light pollution also brightens the background sky - stick at it and you will find which ep suits some targets better than others, its only the 7mm difference in focal length that may do the trick for you.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I have only seen the Veil without UHC filter from a dark location, and even then it was hard enough. With UHC filter it is much better

[NGC 1502]

Agree with post #4, I find the OIII best for the Veil. Not to say the UHC is not good of course, just the OIII noticeably ahead.

I do find the UHC the best all round filter (on the right objects) but hang on to the OIII and tend to think of it as my 'Veil filter'.

Without any filter the Veil is very subdued and needs a good dark sky, away from town. Combine a filter and a good dark transparent sky, lots of structure easily visible.

So buy a filter and get out of town

Regards, Ed.

[John]

Good points above re: the filter requirements and dark, transparent sky requirements. I'd add to that the fact that the Veil is a large and complex object. It's in a number of segments that span 3 degrees and two of those segments are individually getting on for 2 degrees in apparent length (the Moon is half a degree in apparent diameter). So, as well as the filtration and dark skies, low powered eyepieces showing a wide field of view are the best tools for the job here.

I could clearly see the east and west segments of the Veil with my 12" dob last night and no filter but the sky was very dark, Cygnus was right overhead and I know just what to look for. When I added the O-III filter in my ES 20mm 100 degree eyepiece the views last night of this object were sublime as I describe here

http://stargazerslou...t/#entry2038896

I usually start exploring this object by going to the star 52 Cygni which the western veil segment runs right beside. The slightly brighter eastern arc is nearly 3 degrees away from this and other nebulous parts of this complex lie in between them.

Under the right conditions the object can bs seen with small scopes if equipped with a UHC or O-III filter - I've seen the Western segment with an ST80 refractor and, on one memorable night, with unfiltered 15x70 binoculars. It gets really tough if there is much light pollution in the sky though. Ideally you want to be able to see a large sweep of the milky way and M31 with the naked eye to have good "Veil viewing" conditions.

[bendiddley]

great thanks all for your comments, i think a filter is definitely next on the cards. really need to get some of those nebulas in the bag!

[WaveSoarer]

I use an OIII filter and it makes the Veil nebula (the east and west parts) visible. Without the filter I can't see anything.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Hi all. I tried to find this the other night but couldn't see it. I know i was pointed right at it as i was using my star atlas to help me, but there was nothing. I have moderate light pollution where I am, would that be the problem or do i need to get a filter? Any advice welcome.

UHC filters are great for certain types of nebulae. For the Veil, an Oiii is much better.

UHC filters enhance the already visible nebs such as M42. Oiii, make the invisible nebs (Veil,Rosette etc) visible.

[Scooot]

UHC filters are great for certain types of nebulae. For the Veil, an Oiii is much better.

UHC filters enhance the already visible nebs such as M42. Oiii, make the invisible nebs (Veil,Rosette etc) visible.

thats a great simple way of remembering what does what Paul. I'll remember that.

[LukeSkywatcher]

thats a great simple way of remembering what does what Paul. I'll remember that.

Its what i was told when deciding which filter to buy. I bought one of each at the same time.

I bought the Skywatcher versions of both, and they do exactly what they say they do.

The UHC filter gets more use because it works better on more objects. That really would be the first filter to buy.If you can afford both at the same time............GREAT.

[AndyWB]

I've seen the Veil from a really dark location, out by Walbury Hill. It was improved by a UHC. Low magnification is best - the thing is huge!

I have managed it from Reading, but only with a UHC, and it was the faintest hint of the Eastern Veil. I think dark skies are what's necessary.

[bendiddley]

thats a great simple way of remembering what does what Paul. I'll remember that.

Wow I didn't know that, as said that's a good way of knowing which one works for what. Think I need to get them both then.