Its my birthday soon! Help me choose a scope!

[JackOptics]

Alright people, the title describes it pretty well, it is my birthday soon and after looking around i am still pretty clueless on what to realistically expect out of different scopes. I have found a few that i think could fit my needs and i linked them here:

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http://www.telescope...c/11/p/9798.uts

http://www.celestron...eker-114eq.html

http://www.celestron...ster-114eq.html

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Basically, i know it sounds like a lot to expect, but i would be hoping to see, in relatively good clarity, the rings around Saturn, the equatorial belts around Jupiter, some of the closer DSO's such as the Ring nebula, Andromeda, various star clusters etc. I live in a relatively remote town in North Yorkshire, there isn't much light pollution here, and some nights i plan on driving off into the moors to get total blackness. My budget is yet to be decided, however i plan to spend no more than £250.00 on both scope and mount.

Thankyou in advance for any replies!

PS: For those still unsure on what I expect from a scope, here is an image of what i would hope to see, thankyou!

[baggywrinkle]

Of the thee the Orion looks to be the better mountec and appointed. Celestron Astromaster mounts are wobbly and the RDF finder useless and cannot be changed very easily.

I had a 90mm Astromaster on the standard Celestron EQ mount and it often resembled a wobbly jelly trying to settle.

114mm apeture is not a lot of apeture to fulfil your wish list. If you can stretch to 120 or 150mm much of what you want is potentially within your grasp. DSO's are very fickle and will remain dusty objects unless photographed with time exposures.

Maybe look at the second hand market or a good dobsonian. There are many dob users on this site and all seem to be very enthusiastic owners. Size for size v cost a dob packs a lot of punch.

If you have dark skies then the incresase in apeture will be a huge advantage.

[baggywrinkle]

BTW the Orion you mention at F4 is more suited to DSO viewing as it is a fast 'scope. Longer focal lengths allow more magnification and more suited to planetary...everything in astronomy is a bit of a compromise.

[farunj]

I would recommend an 8" dob for you! The 8" aperture starts showing some real detail in DSOs under dark skies and its also not that heavy. If you want to go into imaging then an EQ mount would be recommended but the mounts of the scopes you have shortlisted are fickle anyways, and so are of no use for imaging! I would suggest you go for a 8" dob, as it will be worth every penny!

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk 2

[vlebo]

You will not see that kind of detail visually with any of the scopes that you list. To start seeing anywhere near that kind of detail you will need an aperture of at least 12" and probably more (14-16 ) and be able to view from a very dark site so you are probably looking at a large dob like a Skywatcher Flextube 16" or similar

[ronin]

I would ignore the Orion, at f/4.5 it will need good eyepieces and the short focal length will mean magnificatuin is difficult to get. A plossl eyepiece will usually be poor on it and the next up means about £50 each eyepiece. Also fast scopes are more reliant on collimation being good and that scope is fast. Fast is not required for viewing DSO's it is better for imaging DSO's.

The Celestron Powerseeker, bit insure of this, it is physically long (like that) but usually this scope has a spherical mirror, however I recall reading that all Celestron reflectors use parabolic mirrors (Check this out). The long focal length will mean "budget" eyepieces will work fairly well, collimation is less critical.

The Celestron Astromaster is "too short" physically. to be what it says 1000mm focal length. So I suspect a barlow in the focuser. This is a "Bird-Jones" design and in amateur scope is best avoided. The idea is good if the optics used are good and the design is well thought out, but on budget scopes the optics are cheap and the result is poor.

So of the 3 the Powerseeker is to me the most honest one and of the 3 9if I had to have one that would be it.

May be better if you gave an idea of a budget, and as all are on EQ mounts is an EQ mount a specific requirement?. To see Saturns rings you need about 120x and decent sharpness of the image. One of my best views was through a 100mm refractor - Tal I think, however the Skywatcher Evostar 90 should perform the same. If the budget is about the same it would very likely be a better first scope option.

Any bit of Yorkshire - big place - just there may be a n astro club may be close to you.

Supplied eyepieces are generally poor so expect to want to buy 2 or 3 within a short time.

[wookie1965]

As said above the scopes your looking at wont give you that view, My 6inch doesn't Ive had some great views of Saturn i have seen the Cassini division but not to that clarity maybe if i went to a really dark site. I have bought better eyepieces to suit my fast scope f/5. You really need more aperture to get detail like in your picture.

[John]

I have to agree with the other posters. My 12" dob has excellent optics and will show something approaching the view of Saturn that you show in the photo but your would need 3x or 4x the budget to get something similar.

I feel that the scopes you have identified are OK but you would soon get frustrated by their limitations. Your budget would buy you a 6" dobsonian or even an 8" one on the used market. With the dobsonian design for that budget you will need to find objects and track them yourself but they do give the most "bang for your buck" in terms of optical performance, which is why they are frequently recommended. Here is a link to a good 6" dobsonian scope so you can see what they look like:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-150p-dobsonian.html

There are quite a lot of choices in your budget range so do some research and I'm sure other suggestions will come forward as well. You may need to be a little more realistic on your expections for performance but satisfying views of astro objects can be had for your budget.

Welcome to the forum by the way

[JackOptics]

Thanks for all the replies guys! It looks like I shall have to look into getting a big dob for my needs. I think that I can possibly stretch my budget slightly and get something not so dissimilar to this:

http://www.telescope.com/Telescopes/Dobsonian-Telescopes/Classic-Dobsonians/Orion-XT8-Classic-Dobsonian-Telescope-amp-Beginner-Barlow-Kit/pc/1/c/12/sc/13/p/102029.uts?refineByCategoryId=13[/url

This one comes with a starter kit aswell, so might suit me more.

[Naemeth]

At 8" of aperture, you will be able to get good views but won't quite be at the level of your photo. 12" is more like it - but do remember that a 12" scope is really quite large (and heavy).

Personally, I would recommend a Skywatcher 200P, but that is beyond your budget, and it doesn't include things you will need at some point such as:

Cheshire Collimator

Red Torch

Planisphere

Extra Eyepieces (believe me, you will spend more on eyepieces than telescopes - but these are for when you know what you like to observe and not something you should get straight away as the scope does come with two eyepieces already)

[VigdisVZ]

A cheaper scope wouldn't be a bad place to start as long as you're aware of it's limitations. But if you're looking at something that will last you a long time, the 8" is a very good place to start.

[rowan46]

If you are looking at orion products you need to look here as these are the uk main dealers http://www.scsastro.co.uk/manufacturer/orion as you can see the prices go up a bit by the time they reach our shores.

Skywatcher is the brand you need to be looking at for dobsonions over here.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-dobsonian.html other uk shops sell them as well but flo are often the cheapest. Also photo images are not what you see at the eyepiece if you want a good epresentation of what these things look like have a look at the sketches section

[JackOptics]

What kind of benefits do different eyepieces offer? I know you can get some Barlow ones tat increase magnification (I think) but other than that, what kind f advantages do they give? Of up to Teesside park now, won't be any more than 2 hours

[Naemeth]

What kind of benefits do different eyepieces offer? I know you can get some Barlow ones tat increase magnification (I think) but other than that, what kind f advantages do they give? Of up to Teesside park now, won't be any more than 2 hours

Put simply, a wide variety of eyepieces (with different focal lengths) give a wide range of magnifications that are used to see the best detail from the object you are trying to view.

A few formulas for you:

Magnification (x) = Telescope Focal Length (mm) / Eyepiece Focal Length (mm)

Focal Ratio (F/) = Telescope Focal Length (mm) / Aperture (mm)

True Field of View (Degrees) = Eyepiece Apparent Field of View (Degrees) / Magnification (x)

Maximum Practical Magnification (x) = 2 x Aperture (mm)

HTH

[VigdisVZ]

Understanding eyepieces is a whole science by itself. There are a ton of brands, specifications and magnifications. I suggest having a look at this excellent post by Warthog: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/43171-eyepieces-the-very-least-you-need/

There are factors like power and angle of view. The most expensive good ones can give you the feeling of "falling" into the eyepiece because they simulate a very wide field of view. The lower the mm number the more powerful it is. A 6mm is powerful, while a 32mm offers a more wide view. High power isn't always best. It depends on the size of your object and factors like atmospheric distortion.

A good quality barlow will double the use of each eyepiece, but a bad quality barlow is best left alone. Some people swear by them, others prefer to have surplus eyepieces instead. Personally I almost never use mine. If you're on a tight budget a decent barlow can give you more options but be sure to get EP's that dont overlap in that case, here is an example:

Eyepiece: With 2x barlow:

32mm (widest) 16mm

25mm 12.5mm

20mm 10mm

15mm 7.5mm

and so on. So if you get 20mm EP and a barlow, there is no immediate need to get a 10mm for instance because a 20mm with a barlow effectively becomes a 10mm.

Personally I find my budget 32mm the nicest to look thru, but when I'm looking for a bit more magnification I usually go towards my 15mm and 9mm, but rarely touch my 6mm because of two reasons, 1) the viewport is small and uncomfortable 2) the increased magnification is more prone to get affected by atmospheric distortion. However sometimes when looking at Jupiter for instance (or trying to split a nasty double star) the 6mm can come in handy.

I cannot recommend any brands, being a photo guy I've stuck around with my small case of budget EP's but I'm sure there are other visual guys here who can give you a tip on what specific brand and EP works with your soon to be Dob.

[Schorhr]

Most have been said, +1 for a dobsonian ;-)

Saturn at 260x on a good night is probably comparable with that image scaled down half ;-)

IF you can afford it and transport it, 8" will blow you away. But even the heritage 130p will show all you mentioned under dark and clear skies. Even a 20€ telescope.

5" start to resolve details and faint structures, but still underwhelming when used to view Hubble like photographs.

http://clarkvision.com/visastro/m51-apert/

So 5, better 6" is best for entering deepsky. Also regarding resolving star clusters and planet details.

Visually a dobsonian is ideal. And with a good map/book or app (and red sheet over the display to preserve night vision) you'll be finding stuff in no time.

Depending on your budget start with the included eyepieces.

Don't waste too much money on gazillion eyepieces, get three to four decent ones, or even one with a barlow will do for a while.

10€ to 15€ will get you decent eyepieces (Plössl), 30€ good ones with wide angle aparent field of view (UWA available in 6, 9, 15 and 20mm).

It all depends on what telescope you get.

[JackOptics]

Alright, 2 days left 'till Birthday time, I think that i have come to a decision, Ill get one of the Skywatcher dobsonian scopes, as mentioned earlier. Im getting the impression that it would be easier for me to get some lenses with it, so i can literally just aim it at the desired part of the sky and look down the eyepiece. Im thinking that an 8" dob is my best bet, 6" if i have to. Any further comments people want to make?

[Qualia]

Any further comments people want to make?

By checking out sketches, you'll get a reasonable idea of what to expect relative to the given aperture and atmospheric conditions. I think this is a rather impressive/realistic sketch of Saturn as seen through an 8" under mighty fine conditions.

[dweller25]

I also would recommend the Skywatcher 8" Dobsonian - you should use the supplied eyepieces to get some observing experience before deciding which other eyepiecec to get.....

[Schorhr]

I agree, do get the 8", the better eyepieces can come later - against common belief, the set eyepieces won't turn anyone blind (well, if not aiming at the sun...).

As mentioned earlier, there are decent eyepices for relativley little money (10€ Plössl, 30€ UWA, 45€ HR-planetary). At f/6 they are still pretty good. And after you did decide to buy them, the kit eyepieces won't get much use anymore.

Just don't get carried away with accessories.

Three eyepieces, a red light, a (self build) collimation tool and star maps will get you started.

There are many online you can print online or make with cartes du ceil after learning how to use it, but there are great books out there, or books such as

- The Observer's Sky Atlas (seems like a massive collection of numbers, but the many objects in there will provide you with enough targets to view for a life time)

- Turn left at orion

Great getting-started guide and explains how to find stuff, what the previous book lacks. But not as many objects, though it should keep you buisy for a while ;-)

- star maps with Telrad circles

Not sure what's available in English here, but do consider getting a Telrad or Rigel finder sooner then later.

I'ts much easier to look at the sky with the red circles and match them to the position on a map, then trying to find things through one of those beginner finder scopes. A red dot finder is helpful and better then a finder scope on many occasions, but not quite as precice as aiming with a telrad ;-)

[VigdisVZ]

Bump for the book Turn Left at Orion for a very good guide of what to find and what to expect.

[SnakeyJ]

By checking out sketches, you'll get a reasonable idea of what to expect relative to the given aperture and atmospheric conditions. I think this is a rather impressive/realistic sketch of Saturn as seen through an 8" under mighty fine conditions.

Superb Sketch there Qualia - and made on my birthday!

[Ganymede12]

I strongly recommend the Sky-Watcher Skyliner 200p Dob.

[Zuben Elgenubi]

Another recommendation for the Skyliner 200P from me, it's a lot of scope for the money.

Also, try the stock eyepieces before rushing to buy new ones - the 25mm is actually pretty decent although opinions on the 10mm seem to vary. Some people find it perfectly usable while others have the opposite experience. Mine was replaced very quickly...

[spacenut]

Hi there, like you I'm trying to make up my mind on which dob to get. Just take you time, listen to advice and try to have a look at the scopes you are thinking of buying. Everyone here are very helpful.

I like to wish you a Very happy birthday and may you get clear skies as a present. Good luck.

spacenut