If I tell you what I have......

[Tim]

Can you tell me what I want?

Well, sort of. Thanks for all the kind words of "hello" btw to all who replied to my first (last) post. You know how to make a noob feel welcome

If you can, put yourself in my shoes. I'm a busy guy. I work 60 - 80 hours a week, I have three children who need educating and entertaining, a dog who needs walking, and a wife who need loving. Now and then I stop for food. (Mainly chocolate.) Now and then (when the sky is clear), I have a deep and insatiable desire to leave this sphere and explore the darker skies, and although this desire is reasonably sated by a pair of 10x50 binos, I have in recent times fell into bad company.

Bad company of those who produce images of such stunning quality that it makes one wanna try a little of that drug, just to 'see how it feels'. These friends have such items as scopes upon scopes, double laptop controlled CCD cameras, uber-duper GPS mounts, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was a direct link to an alien spacecraft guiding his kit onto their farawar homes......but I digress, and in any case, y'all know SteveL already

So, here's what I have, would REALLY appreciate some help with what I want, see what you think.

1) I HAVE, the need to get a scope which the whole family (not the dog) will be able to look through and go "why has that ball got rings round it daddy??"

2) I HAVE, the need for a scope which will find its own way to Galaxy XYZ without too much intervention from me. Not because I'm lazy, rather I have other things to be getting on with.

3) I HAVE, the desire to eventually take some pics. Of the planets. Of some nebula. And of some of those super cool whizzy round galaxies that look like giant fried eggs.

4) I HAVE, a Laptop, running Vista. Have heard that it might play up with non vista compatible kit?

5) I HAVE, since last wednesday, a Canon EOS 400D.

6) I HAVE, read quite a few of the posts regarding new kit etc on here.

7) I HAVE, three theoretical budgets for you to spend for me in the way you think would best fill my needs.

8 ) I HAVE, a penchant for buying everything I might need in one go, so please include everything as far as the budget allows, (ping Steve @ FLO, seems i'm always too busy on the phone to tie up, and xmas trees are arriving wednesday........but would really appreciate it if you could have a look at this and mail me your three suggestions if you have time.) so, eyepieces, adapters, cupholders, eyelid warmers etc. I hate getting things out of the box and finding 'batteries not included'.

The three budgets I would suggest are £500, £1000, £1500. Whilst I don't mind spending the extra to get what i want, I would also like to know WHY spending and extra zillion pounds is gonna make all the difference to my enjoyment of the hobby.

If you dont need your judgments to be clouded or fudged further, you may wish to avoid reading the following uninformed ramblings and impressions I have gained so far.

I was most impressed by the piggyback scope as a dedicated tracking device, but wouldn't want to go to that length to get a pic. The camera would have to drop right on to the OTA for my liking, and the mount be capable of accurate guiding off its own back. I have read the nexstar 8 users manual and must say it all seems very nice, 40,000 things to look at should keep me going for a week or two, but is it accurate enough? SteveL put me off a little bit by saying that his best pic so far have been gained through his smaller and cheaper Williams. I dont need GPS as far as I can tell, car has that. Also dont think I need battery packs, mains power will be always available at home where most viewing will be done, and I have a diesel generator if I desire to venture up a cold dark mountain somewhere. (Also have a 4x4 van to assist with carrying stuff wherever). I get the impression its all about the eyepieces, and would like to get as many as is practicable for the money, and those Barlow thingymabobs, whose function im sure will become clearer in time..... I definitely want to get a filter for the sun, the moon, and LPR I guess, and know even less about any other filters, I guess that might spend the budgets without even buying an OTA? :/ I usually like to spend a little bit more and know I'm getting better quality. If £1500 aint enough to put together a reasonable kit, then just say, I'd rather buy nothing than buy a load of stuff that is only half decent. If my aspirations are too unrealistic, then perhaps you would be kind enough to suggest a more appropriate budget? One thing, if my wife comes here, you never saw me

Thanks guys for the help, it is really appreciated.

TJ

PS, did I forget to say dew shields, heaters etc..............

[GazOC]

Welcome to SGL TJ, given the rest of your requirements number 7 should be amended to "I have two theoretical budgets", if you get my drift?

[Tim]

thats fine, but was thinking, (hoping?) that someone might say, "Hey, all you need is this SuperSkyAstroHyperThingy which will give you a great compromise".

Guess thats a no then? Still would like to know what 'could' be had for 500 nicker

Cheers

TJ

[John]

Hi,

I'll be honest here and say that I don't think it will be the lack of budget here that prevents you from sampling all the delights you list but a lack of time.

I'm not into imaging myself and the main reason I'm not is, like yourself, I lack the time to devote to it. I've seen the wonderful results that our imaging friends get and I've met one or two of them and seen their gear. The one thing that has impressed me more than anything is the amount of time they have put in to learning their craft. The images these folk produce are a result of hours, not minutes, not only spent at the scope but then combining, tuning and processing the images they capture.

Even your lower budget will getyou a nice scope that will enable you and your family to see many lovely sights - I just wonder if you might not get a return on a larger investment given your time constraints

That's just my opinion - others will no doubt have different views !.

John

[GazOC]

For £500 you'd have to make do with a smallish scope if you also want GOTO to find the objects and the accessories. Something like the Celestron SLT series....

http://www.celestron.uk.com/catalogues/view_item.asp?ItemID=30615&CatalogueID=272&CategoryID=3802

[SteveL]

I have read the nexstar 8 users manual and must say it all seems very nice, 40,000 things to look at should keep me going for a week or two, but is it accurate enough? SteveL put me off a little bit by saying that his best pic so far have been gained through his smaller and cheaper Williams

I just prefer the wider field of view images that the WO66 spits out. My NS8GPS provides me with fantastic views visually, and is more than capable of creating great images (which it continues to do). It was just a personal view

[Tiny]

In theory the NexStar 8 is Great for visual but I would not like to load too much stuff onto ours. If you plan to later add another scope on top + imaging gear you would overload the poor thing with its one arm. At least that what I think.

The wife has one and it buzzes round with its rt angled dew shielded telerad and rt angle finder but that, I reckon, is (with dew shield) quite enough for this system. If you definitely plan to image choose again. If you just want to look with the odd tweak (Bobs knobs etc) its ideal. Nice Optics too.

[Tim]

Out of interest, how 'true to life', or rather, accurately represented are these images on the celestron site?

http://www.celestron.com/c2/product.php?CatID=11&ProdID=60#downloads

Could I reasonably expect to gain at least a few images like those?

And just to be sure, the equatorial mount is the one for imaging? Did I get that right?

Cheers

TJ

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Hi TJ.

Fistly a few thoughts to get the minds going.

1) Visually, if the whole family wants to que up and have a peep, you'll need tracking of some sort. All the stars and stuff move across the sky in the same way as the sun and moon, so whoever gets to look last will have missed it unless you get a motorised 'scope. That, unfortunately would put Dobsonian type 'scopes out of the running.

2) As you have children, the eyepiece will need to be lowish down so that they can have a look without being dangled over the 'scope (been there, done that) so that means either a refractor (pirate telescope type thing) or a compound 'scope (same, but shrunk in length by having mirrors inside). A big Newtonian would be awkward for the kids to use.

3) If you want to move onto imaging, an equatorial mount would be appropriate.

4) If you want to do imaging, it will take several hours to collect the images, and lots more hours to process them if you want to do anything close to Steve's masterpieces. If you don't have the hours spare you'll have to put up with moderate images, or not bother.

Kaptain klevtsov

[Kaptain Klevtsov]

Out of interest, how 'true to life', or rather, accurately represented are these images on the celestron site?

http://www.celestron.com/c2/product.php?CatID=11&ProdID=60#downloads

Could I reasonably expect to gain at least a few images like those?

And just to be sure, the equatorial mount is the one for imaging? Did I get that right?

Cheers

TJ

Given enough time you could do images like those, but you'll need to be well away from streetlighting. And yes, you did.

Kaptain Klevtsov

[Tiny]

You mention finding the perfect scope. There is no such thing unless maybe you can pay for a second Hubble or something a little larger - I always remember one race in SCi-Fi with their best telescope having a 5 mile mirror to map the galaxy for conquest. (Using their huge fleet of warships which could accelerate at 5 times the speed of light squared.)

It really comes down to what you like and can afford. William Optics scopes are very nice and they cost as they are good refractors. Many reflectors are good and cheaper, but they can be big and you have to be careful with them. As for the Cats they can suffer from weight for their size, dew, cool down time, and their long focal lengths don't suit everyone.

The book 'Star Gazing with a telescope' gives a good idea of the different types of scope available, also giving info on mounts, eyepieces and masses of other stuff. It is a few pounds well spent if you are not in a rush to buy.

At the end of the day you have to choose what you want - and don't be surprised if once you have brought something you decide something else would be better. With this in mind don't spend all you money too quick as with this game there is always something else you just must have.

[cygnusx1]

Hi TJ i'll let others advise at to how to drain your pockets, just your post was very entertaining, in fact chuckled quite a bit as i read it.

Maybe you could be our resident comic?

Welcome anyway and good luck with the purchases, im sure you'll get at least 50% of what you need, but only 10% of what you want

[Tiny]

If the family do all want to view you could always plug a video camera linked to a TV into the eyepiece of a binoviewer.

[Andrew*]

If time is such an issue, i would scrap anything that you can't whizz out in under 5 minutes. I'm afraid that means no serious imaging, unless you can build an observatory, for which you need time...

KK has a good point about high eyepieces for the kids using a newtonian. I would not consider one as an option in your position. Therefore I think an SCT or a refractor will be your best bets.

I think a go-to alt/az scope will suit your needs very well. alt/az will track sufficiently well visually, the go-to will take you where you want quickly (more time observing), and there are no counterweights (more portable and quickly set up).

I think the NexStar 6SE or 8SE suit your needs perfectly! Their apertures are sufficient to view a lot of things and their focal lengths aren't overly restrictive for DSOs. Also, you will be able to take shots of the moon and planets relatively easily until you can move on to an equitorial mount.

But as you say, you want to buy everything in one go, and that's only the scope and mount. Here's what I would recommend as extras:

- dew shield to slow dew formation

- A zoom eyepiece, which at 8mm will be great high-power for planets and at 24mm serve useful for some DSOs

- The 24mm Hyperion, which I believe will give you the maximum possible true field of view from a 1.25" barrel

- a power pack to power the mount. Maplins currently have one at just £20, or Celestron have a couple of steeper, fancier ones

You will also need a red light torch to see your way around, and maybe a book for some background info...

That should sort you out...

Andrew

[Tim]

one more question then, of a slightly technical nature I suppose.

I plan to while away the hours needed for imaging in my outdoor communal bath, whilst sipping champagne and using a long remote lead to the camera. Now I know the human eye's night vision capabilities are least harmed by red light, but what about CCD's in cameras? Its a serious question, because said communal bath can have any colour of light within it to help one see what one is doing, including red. But Im guessing that zero light or as little as possible is the ideal? Or would a little bit of red not hurt? (Thinking about it, the rising steam would probably do more to cloud the visibility than the light. Hmmm, may have to get the missus to take the scope in the far corner of the garden, and i'll just shout "CLICK" every ten minutes.........

Im hoping my parents dont move from where they are at the moment too soon, a remote valley in herefordshire with no street lighting 8)

Anybody got anything good, bad, or downright condemnatory to say about that little Celestron eyepiece set? A waste of money or a sound investment?

And considering what I've droned on about so far, what about this little fellow, would he feel like part of the family? Or would he be resented like a rebellious step-son?

Celestron Advanced Series C8-SGT (XLT)http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=c8sgtxlt

[Andrew*]

If you can afford it, that scope will be very good indeed, and make imaging a possibility, but consider the time factor. Equitorial mounts need to be precisely polar aligned to track accurately enough for imaging and this aligning takes time...

The celestron eyepiece set is fine, but I think the 4mm and 6mm will be far too high powered for an 8" SCT. Do consider the zoom that I link to. It's like having 5 eyepieces in one, and in that respect is excellent value for money.

I'll leave the communal bath question to someone else!

Cheers

Andrew

[GazOC]

I'll leave the communal bath question to someone else!

Speaking generally and not from direct experience of observing from a communal bath......no light is best, a little red light is OK but the heat/ steam from the bath is a massive no-no. :nono:

[SteveL]

and before anyone starts laughing, TJ realy does have a spa/jacuzzi in his back garden... I kid you not!

[themos]

As long as the jac is not between the optics and the target, I don't see a problem. I've been thinking of converting the fish-pond myself...

[MartinB]

Get this:-

Skyliner 8" dob - for visual (you can use it whilst you're imaging)

HEQ5 with an ED80

SPC900NC web cam for the moon

There are lots of other choices but it's all compromises. This will cover the bases as well as anything.

[themos]

Martin, what's he going to put at the ED80 end, though, to capture photons?

[Whippy]

Anybody got anything good, bad, or downright condemnatory to say about that little Celestron eyepiece set? A waste of money or a sound investment?

And considering what I've droned on about so far, what about this little fellow, would he feel like part of the family? Or would he be resented like a rebellious step-son?

Celestron Advanced Series C8-SGT (XLT)http://www.firstlightoptics.com/proddetail.php?prod=c8sgtxlt

I'll be doing a review on the Celestron eyepiece set as soon as the skies remotely get halfway decent so keep your eye out for that, although I haven't seen any bad words on it so far..

That C8SGT will be a t'riffic scope for visual and webcam imaging as it is but that mount isn't great for long exposure stuff and it's pretty noisy! If you're looking at racking up long exposure times, then you'll want to look at changing the mount. But for the money it does it's job and does it well.

Tony..

[SteveL]

I know the mount is noisey (hell, only Ant's snoring at Kelling was louder!), but is it really that bad for long exposure tracking?

[Ant]

Oi !!!!

true. I wouldn't mind but you were quite a way from me!

[SteveL]

.. and there was a reason for that