Mars One - One way ticket to Mars BB style

[fondofchips]

Noticed this update on the BBC News website: -

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22146456

Apparently this Mission is going to start with a reality TV show, applicants selected BB/Apprentice style.

Mars One says it will open applications imminently.

On a visit to the BBC's London office, Mars One's co-founder Bas Lansdorp explains why this would be a one-way flight.

"During the seven-to-eight month journey, astronauts will lose bone and muscle mass. After spending time on Mars' much weaker gravitational field, it would be almost impossible to readjust back to Earth's much stronger gravity", says Landsorp.

Scary, I don't think the human race is ready for this yet...................

[DaveGarland]

I dunno, my mother in-law could do with losing some mass. Ill put her name down

[Rihard]

I haven't got much bounds on good old Earth, so I wouldn't be scared to go on such trip, but I would require *at least* a little greenhouse that would keep me busy... and nourished while on Mars

But I feel there is something odd about the gravity issue as described.

Although bone / muscle mass is one of the biggest space flights issues, I thought that the issue wouldn't be that bad as Mars gravity isn't zero anyway, also considering that a russian cosmonaut spent over 437 days in the MIR space station back then.

Also, it should be possible to simulate gravity in space to help reduce the side effects, with a rotating module or something (there was one made by NASA that was never deployed due to budget constraints I think). And, with some strong fitness training onboard / on Mars land, would it be really impossible to adapt back to Earth's gravity? Or maybe the actual constraints are more of financial then technical nature?

Said that, if they really go serious with the development of a fusion powered rocket (see this article of April 12th), reaching Mars will become much easier and people will not need to take a one-way trip challenge anymore, if that's an issue

[nameunknown]

Yep - Valeri Polyakov January 8, 1994 to March 22, 1995 – 437 days, 17 hours, 58 minutes.

Rotating module might cause serious nausea (as it will small if done on the cheap), but you could keep the last booster stage and swing around it on cable (as in "The Martian Race" - which seems somewhat similar to the BB goes to Mars plot).

However, if the guys in charge don't know about Valeri and rest their hopes on an untried fusion-powered device which seems like science-ficton, I suspect the trip might well be no-way rather than one-way.

Now, back to my garden shed and that prototype anti-gravity device...

P

[nameunknown]

"they will also have an emergency ration and regular top-ups as new explorers join every two years*

what?... do they eat them1

P

[Kropster]

How do we get to vote one of them off Mars?

They will need extra propulsion units for that... and where would they go?

[Mattscar]

I haven't got much bounds on good old Earth, so I wouldn't be scared to go on such trip, but I would require *at least* a little greenhouse that would keep me busy... and nourished while on Mars

I believe thats already part of the plan if you check their website. Well, a greenhouse style pod atleast. So chop chop! Get your name down and make sure to send us a postcard.

[DaveS]

That fusion engine effectively uses the same lithium deuteride fuel that hydrogen bombs use. I dunno, seems plausible, but riding to Mars on a succession of hydrogen bombs going off seems a bit scary! I remember reading plans in old issues of JBIS. One idea was to use high energy electron beams to fuse pellets of deuterium / tritium mix. There were, I believe calculations involving deuterium / boron fuel. some of the performance figures were sky-high, like Earth to Pluto in a couple of months.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

I can get behind the concept of sending reality show contestants into space, provided there is no possibility of them returning.

Said that, if they really go serious with the development of a fusion powered rocket (see this article of April 12th), reaching Mars will become much easier and people will not need to take a one-way trip challenge anymore, if that's an issue

That's a very interesting article and concept for an engine, but NASA have only allocated $800,000 in funding. It's at a very early stage of development - the components of a prototype have been tested individually, but no actual fusion has taken place.

[camoscato]

Maybe it's just me, but the whole notion of voting for Mars astronauts on a reality TV show, and the profits from that TV show providing the funds to make the trip all seems sketchy. I'd rather have solid backing based on something other than the whim of the TV watching public for my Mars mission.

[DaveS]

I wonder where and how they will test that engine. Although I don't think the exhaust is radioactive it would probably still fall foul of the test-ban-treaty.

Unless I'm missing something and the TBT only referes to weapons?

You wouldn't want to be looking into the exhaust even from a "safe" distance. I think it would be rather bright.

[fondofchips]

Maybe it's just me, but the whole notion of voting for Mars astronauts on a reality TV show, and the profits from that TV show providing the funds to make the trip all seems sketchy. I'd rather have solid backing based on something other than the whim of the TV watching public for my Mars mission.

I agree, advertising funds alone would probably not be enough to finance this project.

A spaceship plastered with sponsors logo's F1 car style would look rather strange & not give me confidence on the mission either.

[Knight of Clear Skies]

Maybe it's just me, but the whole notion of voting for Mars astronauts on a reality TV show, and the profits from that TV show providing the funds to make the trip all seems sketchy. I'd rather have solid backing based on something other than the whim of the TV watching public for my Mars mission.

Yes, especially given that the survival of the colonists would depend on continued funding and supplies from Earth.

Energy will be generated from solar panels, water will be recycled and extracted from soil and the astronauts will grow their own food - they will also have an emergency ration and regular top-ups as new explorers join every two years.

I certainly wouldn't want to entrust my life to the whims of the viewing public.

Frankly, the project sounds like a fantasy to me, or possibly even a scam. If they are serious about this project, it's a case of trying to run before we can walk. A good first step would be to demonstrate that we can build a self-contained and sustaining environment on Earth, but only a handful of biodome projects have been attempted, and they have all run into serious problems, such as wild fluctuations in CO2 levels due to the daily cycle of photosynthesis.

[stem1989]

when voted off you must walk out of the airlock with no suit... it'll be in the small print lol

[nameunknown]

That fusion engine effectively uses the same lithium deuteride fuel that hydrogen bombs use. I dunno, seems plausible, but riding to Mars on a succession of hydrogen bombs going off seems a bit scary! I remember reading plans in old issues of JBIS. One idea was to use high energy electron beams to fuse pellets of deuterium / tritium mix. There were, I believe calculations involving deuterium / boron fuel. some of the performance figures were sky-high, like Earth to Pluto in a couple of months.

Well, its an Orion type engine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29). It has been suggested that The launch of such an Orion nuclear bomb rocket from the ground or from LEO would generate an EM pulse that could cause significant damage to computers and telecoms satellites, as well as flooding the Van Allen belts with high-energy radiation. Not a good way to get a TV show off to a good start!

The vehicle would violate the 1963 test ban treaty as currently written, which prohibits all nuclear detonations except those conducted underground, both as an attempt to slow the arms race and to limit the amount of radiation in the atmosphere caused by nuclear detonations (not that it stops fusion research). There was an effort by the US government to put an exception into the 1963 treaty to allow for the use of nuclear propulsion for spaceflight, but Soviet fears about military applications kept the exception out of the treaty. This limitation would affect only the US, Russia, and the United Kingdom as well as the de-facto moratorium on nuclear testing that the declared nuclear powers have imposed since the 1990s (mostly). It would not violate the treaty which bans nuclear weapons in space, but not peaceful uses of nuclear explosions. But, somehow, I can't imagine the Dutch (or are they Belgians?) not complaining if this went ahead - either the bang from the launch will shatter the greenhouses which cover Holland, or knock the bubbles out of Belgian beer.

P

[DaveS]

The design is not truly an Orion variant since the fusion reaction takes place in a reaction chamber similar in concept to a "normal" rocket with the exhaust providing the thrust, rather than the "inside-out" design of the Orion engine with the explosion debris impinging on a pusher plate.

As the article hints at, the fusion engine may well be exempt (Or at least bypass) the TBT since no conventional nuclear explosive is involved.

I cannot see this being used as an orbital launch vehicle, but would rather be built in orbit and launched from beyond the van Allen belts. I would imagine a vehicle mass of the order of kilo-tonnes. Perhaps something like the ISS with a motor.

I'm also not sure now about the lithium deuteride analogy, since the lithium is principly used as an electromagnetic squeezer for a deuterium / tritium fuel. However, given the close proximity of the lithium and the extremely fast rate of nuclear reactions this is a definite possibility.

Although some unreacted Li would escape in the exhaust, mostly it would be He nuclei.

Either way up the launch, even from orbit would be spectacular, especially at night, to the fury of every astronomer with clear skies!

[Kropster]

Just getting any sort of controlled fusion would be great, even here on Earth.... let alone achieving it with something light weight enough to put into orbit.

Seems some centuries in the future, given current fusion progress.

[DaveS]

I think decades rather than centuries.

A large part of the problems we're having with controlled fusion is with containment. JET has already achieved contolled fusion though they haven't reached break-even yet. And remember with tokamaks you're wanting plasma lifetimes in tens of minutes rather than seconds.

This design (By it's very nature) doesn't have to worry about containment, though it does have to harvest enough power from the exhaust to fire the next charge and have some over to run the spaceship.

How long it takes is really down to how much it's wanted, and how much money is thrown at it. A Manhatten scale project could probably do it 5 years or less.

[Monty]

Can I vote we send Simon Cowell...

[DaveS]

...In the cargo hold...

[fondofchips]

Can I vote we send Simon Cowell...

Can I second that..... er I just did!

[Kropster]

I think harvesting enough power rather than just being blown forwards by the plasma will be very difficult.

Also, you have to remember that there is no atmosphere to carry blast as on Earth... which may be a good thing, that close to a fusion reaction!

You might need rather good radiation shielding too.

[DaveS]

I think that harvesting power is done by allowing the plasma to pass two superconducting coils making a one-pass impulse generator.

As for the radiation, the main problem will be the gamma. I think the neutrons will be relatively easy to block, though minimising the proportion of energy going into neutrons is something to be considered as they cannot be collimated into an exhaust, so their energy is wasted.

Whether the lithium in the plasma will be able to use the neurons is something to be considered, and will depend on the proportion of Li⁷ to Li⁶ .

[Dr Nurburg]

I have been watching the applicant videos, which they recently published on the Mars One website.

Whilst it kind of interests me to take part, never feeling the wind on my face would be a real issue.

I am inclined to think this is actually a government experiment to see how many people genuinely feel the Earth is so "stuck up its own Bottom" that they'd rather leave it for ever.

I mean come one. Never. Coming. Back. Ever.

No wind. No vegetation. No clouds. No wildlife. Restricted in your movements both physically and systematically by mission obligations.

It has to be a psychological experiment.

What do you guys think about this theory?

[camoscato]

It has to be a psychological experiment.

What do you guys think about this theory?

In all honesty, I think it's more likely it's a scam.