HU 20mm Nagler

[alan potts]

20mm Nagler on Astro B&S good price!!!!!

No I've got one.

Alan

[Damo636]

In an epic clash of the titans, that particular T5 lost on points to a 20mm ES 100*

[alan potts]

Is it John's

Alan.

[Damo636]

Alan

It is John's.

[alan potts]

Damo,

I can't be hard on him the same may well happen to mine.

Has he writen and posted a review on both, if so, where is it.

Alan

[Damo636]

Alan

I don't think John has posted a review as yet, at least not that I have seen. That 20mm ES must be one hell of an eyepiece to oust the Nagler.

[russ.will]

Blimey! Is the sacred green loosing it's sparkle?

Russell

[alan potts]

I can't speak I am still in shock.

Alan.

[russ.will]

Joking aside, I'm certainly interested to hear why the comparison shook itself out the way it did.

Russell

[alan potts]

I think the simple answer is things have come on so much in the last 10 years. China is a very cheap manufacturing base and they can do good work, I know ,I have set up production there myself. I am sure there was little diference between the two eyepieces but these days how many can afford to keep two expensive eyepieces of the same focal length, one has to go. I am sure John made the decision with a heavy heart as I am sure I will do in a few weeks when my 20mm Nagler finds itself sharing a case with a 21mm Ethos.

There is no doubt Ex Sc have come a long way and the backbone of the Company was one of Meades top men, so you could argue it has a tradition, Meade were no doubt a market front runner a few year back but seem to have come off the rails a little, to be replaced by Explore.

This is only good for the hobby in my view but I wonder how much pressure this puts on Televue as a Company to do simlar and set up production in China in order to reduce costs because as differences become smaller even people like me are beginning to wonder if it is worth the cost new.

Alan

[russ.will]

On a point of order - I'm sure I've seen TV EPs with 'China' stamped on the box and I recall that their Plossls can come from Japan and at least some Panoptics are made in Taiwan.

I'm not going to secong guess John's reasons as he's more than capable of stating them himself, but I suspect of it had been as ES100 against an Ethos, the outcome may have been different. The ES100 v Nagler ,is Apples v Pears so there's room for a bit more in the way of personal preference.

<EDIT>TV sourcing Discussion on CN.

Russell

[Stargazer_00]

I'd suspect the 100 degree field was at least as good up to 82 degrees as the full field of the nagler and the additional 18 degrees tailed off a little but because it was there it made it better overall.

[alan potts]

Russell

I have a good few Televues and only 3 T6 Naglers have Made in Japan, all others are from Taiwan, including Ethos. I tend to take to line it matters not where they are made as long as they are good. I have set up production of bathroom products in many Countries, China being one of them and you be suppised where the UK comes on my list of how good they are.

Alan.

[Mark at Beaufort]

I was with John over the weekend at SGL8 and I saw his ES 20mm EP - its large. To be honest John obtained the EP from Matthew who was moving into Astro Imaging. I never had chance to look through this EP over the weekend. However, I was able to use it last year when I was with Matthew and I looked through his 12" Orion.

I can understand that you won't need the 20mm ES and the 20mm Nagler in the same case and I suppose I would do the same as John and sell the Nagler.

Mark

[russ.will]

...and you be suppised where the UK comes on my list of how good they are.

It's sad to say, but I don't think I would be surprised.

Russell

[John]

Sorry that I've not been able to post a review of the Nagler and the ES 20mm's. I've only had a couple of sessions with them so not enough really to write about.

My fastest scope is now a relatively tame F/5.3 and the ES 20 / 100 did very well with that and produced comparable performance on a number of objects (mostly galaxies) to the Nagler 20mm, enough to make me confident that I wanted to keep it so, with some regrets I have to say, I've let the Nagler go.

If my dob was F/5 or faster I'd have probably kept the Nagler or saved up much more for an Ethos 21.

I do still like 100 degree views though and the ES also has more eye relief and a much larger eye lens than the Nagler so it's going to be easy to live with and cost more than £300 less than a used Ethos 21 would have.

When combined with my 4" and 4.7" refractors the ES 100, with it's eye cup rolled down, produced the most immersive views I've seen to date with any eyepiece - a true "pool of stars" as far as the eye could see and all sharp too

So is the ES a compromise ? - well yes, I guess it is in a way but it's a very good compromise indeed

[Dunkster]

Which weighs more John.... the ES 20mm or the refractor?

[Damo636]

John

The fact that you find the ES 20 at least as nice as the Nagler is high praise indeed for the ES!

Have you had the chance to compare it to the 31 Nagler (fov)? I'm saving up for another 30mm ES 82°, as I feel there are a handful of targets that justify having that little extra tfov, 0.2° in the case of the 21 Ethos.

[John]

John

The fact that you find the ES 20 at least as nice as the Nagler is high praise indeed for the ES!

Have you had the chance to compare it to the 31 Nagler (fov)? I'm saving up for another 30mm ES 82°, as I feel there are a handful of targets that justify having that little extra tfov, 0.2° in the case of the 21 Ethos.

Hi Damo,

I've not been able to compare it with the 31mm Nagler yet.

One of the reasons I was attracted by the ES 20 / 100 over the Ethos 21 was that I'd be able to afford to keep my N31 with the ES but I would have had to sell it to get the E21. I've read lots of times on Cloudynights of folks buying an E21, selling their N31 then regretting it and finding difficult to find another N31. I didn't want to get into that position.

[Damo636]

Sounds like a good call to me John, the 31 Nagler & the 20 ES compliment each other perfectly.

[swamp thing]

Interesting point John. I'd been thinking of this "upgrade" (or is it a sidestep) myself. Changing my 31mm and 20 T5's for a 21mm Ethos. The loss of field through my 10" doesn't concern me, but weight issues do. The weight issues don't concern me for my 20" but the loss of field does

Keeping both Naglers and getting the 20ES or 21Ethos as well is a pretty expensive option

[John]

There is no getting away from the weight issue Steve although in my case the next EP "down" from the 20mm is the 13mm Ethos which itself weighs a fair bit more than the 20mm T5 did.

I'm going to be adding some weight to the back of my 12" dob anyway - 2lbs seems to be enough to hold things steady with my heaviest eyepiece when the scope drops below around 45 degrees. Thats not much to add.

[alan potts]

It may well be the only reason I end up keeping the 20mm T5 when I have the 21mm E, weight.

Alan.

[Dunkster]

Absolutely agree Alan... the 20T5 is under 500g, even the 17E is a shade over 700g 700 is about the limit of what I'm prepared to subject my GnG to (it forgives me for sticking the ES82/30 before)

[alan potts]

I like these big exotic eyepieces don't get me wrong and have almost all of them. However when you have a scope mounted on top of a scope as well as the others it can be difficult to view with a 17mm Ethos in the diagonal when the main scope is low down. I fully understand mine is a very expensive solution

The only answer is to either: not bother looking, learn to fly or grab the ladder. This is why I may well keep the 16mm & 20mm T5 and 24mm Pan . For this job the Ethos's are just too big as would be the ExSc 100's.

Alan