Sirius and a pup that is frightened of the dark

[alan potts]

I have to share this with you all. I had the 115mm out last night and left it 2 hours to cool down and took the time to level the mount, something I normally only do by eye. As it was darkening I started the set-up and first star up was Sirius as it happened. Anyway did all the other alignment stuff and went back to Sirius. I spent about 1 hour on it as it got dark, interupted by my Son Daniel pulling on the counterweights asking to see Saturn, it's up there, pointing at Jupiter. Still he is only 5 and a half and most times he gets it right.

Now the interesting part, whilst looking at Sirius it was not long after using X100 before I could clearly see the Pup, I had set-up in a fairly light sky. Thinking I was dreaming I switched to Rigel and yes the double there was easy to see and as plain as day, at this point I was shocked at how light the sky was and what I could see. Then back to Sirius, I had dropped the magnification on Rigel to X81 with a 10mm Delos, again I could still see the Pup, this is something that I find hard to believe as most people seem to use a great deal more power than me. I have more than once though it was me and I am just thinking I am seeing this star and I would forgive anyone that thought the same. What I was beginning to notice was that the Pup was getting harder to make out as the sky got darker. Sirius was bright ( is it ever any different) and there was little or no scintillation, the sky was absolutely prestine with naked eye right down to the very edge of the horizon, over head was easy a 5.5 plus sky when it did get dark and the Milky Way was plain to see.

However the point of all this before it did get fully dark the Pup disappeared and I never saw it again with the scope after that, it did not matter what magnification I used I just couldn't see it any longer. A few members have posted comments along the lines of, "nights when the Moon is up and large you can aways look at doubles", how right they are!

Alan.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Interesting result, I should try this. The grey background might actually help, just like light haze can, because it effectively reduces glare from Sirius A.

[Mike73]

I read a thread on CN about viewing the Pup at twilight, I think someone has even seen it with a 60mm scope!

[andrew63]

Great night Alan - what colour would you like your T- Shirt !

andrew

[chiltonstar]

Interesting result, I should try this. The grey background might actually help, just like light haze can, because it effectively reduces glare from Sirius A.

Maybe try a red filter as well Michael - that is said to help according to some references I found. I was going to try it the next time I could see the night sky.....

Chris

[alan potts]

Interesting have just tried the same technique as last nigh with a different scope and got much the same result but I could see it most of the time, Just checked two hours later and it is still visible but I would say not as easy as it was close to 2 hours ago. Scope 150mm GSO RC using X137 10mm Delos , X 68 20mm Nagler, and X57 24mm Meade UWA . The other strange thing is I would say conditions are better now than when I started.

Alan.

[Damo636]

Very interesting Alan! I'll have to give that a go in about a month or so when twilight falls a little later.

[alan potts]

Damo,

Well worth a try.

Mike73 says someone has done it with a 60mm, I will giving that a try in the next few days. I have a 70mm ED which whilst it's not in the same class as my APM is worth a try. The guy that did it with the 60mm could well have had the star well above the horizon and maybe even 10 degrees higher than I see it.

Andrew 63, Balck 'T'shirt white stars. Is anyone going to do this that you know of or is it just banter, I like the idea myself.

Alan.

[andrew63]

There was a competition a while back Alan, and FLO are selling some t-shirts of the most popular - new logos could be added latter. Perhaps they'll ask for new ideas!

andrew

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I had a shot today, but I am unsure. I spotted something with a red filter, but I am not sure it was at the right hour angle. What is the current hour angle?

[John]

This chart might help Michael:

http://www.amastro2.org/at/ms/msSiriusB.gif

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

This chart might help Michael:

http://www.amastro2....s/msSiriusB.gif

Cheers! that means I did get it !! It was spot on at the right position. I also got Rigel B for the first time. I will do a full report tomorrow.

[alan potts]

Well Done Michael, Did you not see anything in the twilght sky. or was it only with RED filter

The funny thing about this star is I looked again last night with the same scope that I had out the night before, the GSO RC 150. I would have said the sky was even better than Saturday night but not as good a as Friday night. The double cluster was an easy naked eye object, so it was fairly clear. I couldn't see a thing last night, no real scintillation on Sirius, a little turbulance in the air just making for some disc distortion but no PUP. Shy Pup and must be frightened of the dark, I must put out a bowl of Chum for it.

Alan.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I just used the red filter. At dusk Sirius is behind trees as seen from my garden. The red filter removes the problem of atmospheric refraction and reduces seeing problems.

[Damo636]

Well done Michael! The red filter approach sounds interesting, I'll have to give that a go.

Alan

He's a shady little blighter for sure! After observing him with not much effort the night before, like yourself, I couldn't even catch a glimpse last night!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Cheers Damo. The report is here:

[chiltonstar]

I just used the red filter. At dusk Sirius is behind trees as seen from my garden. The red filter removes the problem of atmospheric refraction and reduces seeing problems.

Well done!

It is also said that, as blue light is scattered and refracted more than red, filtering it out removes a lot of the background around the main star.

Chris

[alan potts]

Being somewhat stupid I spent 20 mins looking for the pup with a 70mm scope of questionable quality. I think to stand any chance of this the optics need to be fairly good and whilst this 70mm ED is fine on wide field work it is left wanting on a reasonable magnification for the task in hand., it is not as good as TS claim it to be

After 20 minutes the clouds put a stop to things for an hour and I didn't pick up from where I left off. I did not see the double with the small scope though it was an easy object earlier with the M/N 190mm, this is a fine scope for such work. I am a bit upset that I was not a member of this site when I bought it as I would have gone for the larger mount I'm sure after advice, sadly the catalogue that I have from Skywatcher shows the scope on a HEQ5 Pro mount, like a fool I believed it.

Have fun Pup spotting, tonight it's LX night, I have never seen it with this scope.

Alan.

[alan potts]

Aperture is not everything! After two hours of observing Sirius with a well collimated LX 12 inch and using more Televue eyepieces than most shops carry I gave up. Something makes me think that this scope is just no good on these type of double stars, this must be over 50 times I have used this scope to see the Pup and failed. I tried everything from X304 with a 10mm Delos down to X60 with a 55mm Plossl and all types of Nagler in between.

Something I rarely say but I think I am giving up on this scope and this star.

Alan.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Maybe I should give my 80mm F/6 a shot on the pup.

[alan potts]

Michael,

Give it a try, the only thing against you is being in Holland you are at about the same latitude as much of England. This is I am sure making a difference in my findings to everyone elses. I can see this double at fairly low magnifications where as many in the UK are using way over X200. I can't see this double at high magnification at least not yet, I have tried many times. For me with the star being higher you get that better control over the star in the eyepiece, I find from memory in the UK the star looks a bit like Pink Floyd light show but not as big.

Alan.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Yeah it can look like a disco ball. A red filter does cut that back dramatically.

[chiltonstar]

Maybe I should give my 80mm F/6 a shot on the pup.

I tried my Orion ED80 two nights ago - nice diffraction rings, but Sirius was pupless!

Chris

[Peter Drew]

Had a good try last night in Tenerife with a C8 without success, conditions not really good enough for a tight star image. The Trapezium E & F were easy enough.

[alan potts]

Don't give up Peter, You are at or around sea level which I don't think will help a great deal, pretty though. I am at about 1500 feet which is a help. It is interesting that you are using a SC as well, I have never seen it with mine.

I spent another good hour with the 70mm last night but I think it is a lost cause. The star is not that tight now as it happens and it will get a little easier in the next few years. At the moment is not that much smaller gap than Rigel and I find that a very easy split. I can do that even with my 60mm finder and a didferent EP.

For Sirius though the 115mm splits is on a regualr basis but a sub standard 70mm ED I think it is asking alot but I have still to see this with the 12 inch and I have tried many times. It is a tricky little dog.

Alan.