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12 inch Newtonian on a CGE Pro Mount

Haggis

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Haggis

Haggis

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I have a very nice EQ6 mount with an 8 inch GSO 200 F4 newtonian telescope that I use for astrophotography. I'm still a beginner but I'm very excited about this hobby and though it's always cloudy here, the few times I use it, I really ejoy it. It's not a very special scope for visual use, however. I do enjoy it but I once gazed through my old 12" Newt and that was a whole different story.

A few years ago, a friend gave me a HUGE 12 inch telescope practically for free. My friend got it from a man who had planned on using it for a backyard observatory but moved to a tropical island and couldn't take the scope with him. It came with a big fat non-goto mount that looks like one of those Cave mounts. I've only used it once because the mount was damaged. I got a stunning view of Saturn but couldn't center it in the eyepiece without holding the tube steady with my hands. The mount had so much backlash that when I pushed the back-end of the telescope, it would wiggle up and down for many cm's and you could hear a strange clunking sound coming from the mount. If I raised my hand from the telescope, the tube fell down a few cm's and Saturn was gone. If I pushed the telescope down again, Saturn went out of view the other way. Of course, this took the fun out of observing. I asked an expert if it could easily be repaired and he recommended I got rid of the mount and buy or build a dobsonian mount instead. It sounded like a good idea at the time but it never came as far. Years later I bought a nice EQ6 goto mount with a GSO200 that I now enjoy. The 12 inch telescope currently sits in my shed. My EQ6 couldn't possible carry this scope succesfully so the scope doesn't get used anymore.

Anyways, there's a used CGE Pro mount for sale for such an attractive price that it really makes me want to have it. I've been thinking of buying it and later, when I've saved a bit of money, put a C11 or maybe even a C14 on it. In the meantime, I could maybe use my 12 inch Newtonian on the CGE Pro? Would a CGE Pro be able to handle a 12 inch Newtonian telescope? I think it's an F6 but I'm not sure about it. The scope is tall and weighs about 18kg if I remember correctly. I read the CGE Pro can handle 90lbs of weight but I figure, a very long telescope is a whole different story? I was thinking of putting scopewheels under the mount so I can drag it outside without having to rebuild it everytime.

What do you guys think, will it hold for visual use? Will it maybe even hold for unguided astrophotography or with a small guidescope? I've also read about many smaller and bigger problems regarding CGE Pro mounts. Are there many things that can go wrong beyond repair or is repairing always an option? in other words: are there enough spare parts available for CGE Pro mounts?

Maybe I'm looking too much for reasons to buy the mount. Maybe a dobson mount is the better choice for my 12 inch Newt but I like GOTO, I like tracking objects and like I said, in the nearby future I may want a nice C11 or C14 unless the 12" Newt performs good enough and then I also need a better mount than my EQ6.

Thanks for the advice!

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Haggis

Haggis

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I have considered it and like I said a dobson mount may be the best option after all. But I would love to have GOTO and tracking capabilities with a huge telescope so if it's possible I would prefer an equatorial mount. Even though it means I will sometimes need a ladder to look through the eyepiece :grin: . Imagine the views you get through a 12" Newt with a mount that keeps the planets centered in the eyepiece! But if it's just not possible, then I guess the scope will remain sitting in my shed for many more years until I find a dobson mount for it.

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Haggis

Haggis

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Thanks for pointing me to that website. I have 2 left hands so I still prefer buying something that's ready and will work. If there is really no other way, then maybe I will try to build a dobson mount but I think I'd rather sell the scope in that case.

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SnakeyJ

SnakeyJ

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Hi Haggis,

Can't advise on the CGE - though the specs certainly look capable at 41Kgs load, even halving this should keep you well within budget. As you say length is the key query, so balance and windage become concerns - over to someone else on this!

Would like to see some pics of the 300mm newt, but even at F6 this would be around 1.8m which is only 300mm longer than the SWE 300PDS (which is offered with the NEQ6). Most of the comments I've seen on this seem to say that it is unweildy to use (especially tube rotation) and I've noted a few users trading down to something more manageable. Perhaps something more suited to a fixed observatory, or as you say rollout from the garage/conservatory.

Otherwise the dob conversion is certainly worth considering - I believe that Orion Optics do some pretty decent dob mounts - £ 265 for the 12" version @ http://www.orionoptics.co.uk/MOUNTS/dobsonianmount.html - which is certainly a lot cheaper than the CGE Pro and whilst not as rewarding as DIY, if you priced the time for building your own I think you'd be quite shocked at the real cost! Perhaps a talented dobsonian build expert within the forum might be interested in taking on another project?

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Haggis

Haggis

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Thank you for this very informative post, SnakeyJ! I was looking for answers like this. I can't find much about my telescope but I did find a very old picture. I made it the first day I picked up the telescope. In the picture it sits on its original mount. I got rid of the mount a few years ago but kept the pier for my EQ6. Two years ago, I've had both the primary and secondary mirrors recoated so the telescope itself should still be good enough to use. It's a bit of a shame it just sits there, waiting to be used again. I'm not sure if I am correct but I those days I tried to gather information about the telescope and learned that it may be a "Dark Star" telescope. Does that brand ring a bell?

I've taken a look at that website and a dobson mount is beginning to sound attractive. Especially if I can just buy one without making it myself. But still... I really fancy that big computerized CGE Pro GOTO mount after having played around with my awesome EQ6 + PC setup. Tempting, tempting...

As you can see, the telescope is a real giant so I hope the CGE Pro is up to the task. On the other hand, even if the mount can't hold a 12 inch Newt, it may still serve as a nice platform for a future big SCT setup. I really need to take it easy and think things through before rushing in and buying an expensive mount.

post-18563-0-96139100-1361815044_thumb.j

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John

John

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Dark Star used to make dobsonian scopes a decade or two ago. Yours looks like a Dark Star optical tube but the mount looks more like an old Meade Starfinder or similar. Dark Star used UK produced optics from a number of suppliers including David Hinds I think.

I have an Orion Optics 12" F/5.3 newtonian but I have mine on a dobsonian mount. It's a really manageable scope for a 12" on the dob mount but I reckon it would be HUGE :shocked: on an equatorial.

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SnakeyJ

SnakeyJ

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Cheers Haggis - its huge, though the focuser looks pretty puny in comparison, but as long as the primary and secondary look ok, I reckon its well worth the attention. Not so sure on the rings/saddle or saddle type from the image. If it was mine I think I'd be tempted to strip and inspect, clean and service. Then see how it collimates and a very gentle try out on the NEQ6 to check all's okay - don't think you'll be wasting money on the CGE Pro, especially if you're looking out for a C11 later on, but well worth a gentle try out to see how it handles. Otherwise the dob mount looks an excellent option.

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Scooot

Scooot

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I have considered it and like I said a dobson mount may be the best option after all. But I would love to have GOTO and tracking capabilities with a huge telescope so if it's possible I would prefer an equatorial mount. Even though it means I will sometimes need a ladder to look through the eyepiece :grin: . Imagine the views you get through a 12" Newt with a mount that keeps the planets centered in the eyepiece! But if it's just not possible, then I guess the scope will remain sitting in my shed for many more years until I find a dobson mount for it.

Have you thought of a Dobsonian mount with a push to system. If you want tracking you could stand it on an EQ platform. That's what my set up is.

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Patrice Lanteigne

Patrice Lanteigne

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Haggis,

Just go get that mount, you know you want to. The price is right for you and you do plan to use it for a big SCT so just go get it.

Fabricate yourself a short pier for the mount, or get one made, so that the big newt just clears the ground. This should help with keeping EP heights down from the stratosphere.

Too bad you got rid of the old mount, I just love tinkering with old broken stuff and bring them back to useful service. The main table saw in my cabinet shop is nearly 60 years old and the shaper is even older, both recovered from the wrecker's yard.

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Haggis

Haggis

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Thanks for all the positive comments, guys! I must say, you're really making me want to buy this mount. I've already contacted the seller and I think we'll make an appointment soon so I can visit him and inspect the mount.

John: Thanks for the heads up about Dark Star. I've always wondered if it's a decent brand because I can't find much about it. I've only looked through my telescope once for maybe an hour but never forgot the beautiful view of Saturn. It was a very large, clear and sharp picture, much better than through my 8" GSO. I bet, with proper collimation it will become even better. The only other time I saw Saturn even better was through a very big, very old, 20cm refractor telescope in a nearby Observatory (the "Miedema telescope"). But I've only peeked through maybe 5 telescopes in my entire life so maybe I'm just easily impressed...

Laser Jock: Surely, if your EQ6 can carry that big scope the CGE Pro I intend to pick up should have no problem with my 12"? Nice scopes!

SnakeyJ: Agreed! That puny focuser is something I will definitely have to change to 2 inch. I hear Moonlight makes pretty good stuff. All my eyepieces are 2". Not sure about replacing the tuberings though, what's the benefit of changing the telescope rings? Will the scope flex with these thinner rings? I'm glad I can finally start working on my 12" Newtonian again after so many years (if all goes well).

Scoot: Yeah, I really want tracking unless there's no other option. But I've thought about it and am pretty sure the CGE Pro should be up to the task! :grin:

Patrice: Thanks for your support, man! Sometimes you just need a little encouraging to do something you don't do every day. I intend to put the CGE Pro on a short pier so I won't have to reach too high to get to the Newt's eyepiece. I dumped the mount because an expert told me it wasn't really worth anything and I would be better off with a dobson mount. I've kept it a few more years until I had to admit I really had no use for the old mount and it was just taking up space in the garage. If you were my next door neighbour, I would have gladly given it to you to play with. It felt a bit weird when I left the mount behind at the junkyard...

Vlebo: This Moonshane did a good job on those mounts. I wish I could make that. If a Newt on a CGE Pro isn't a succes after all, maybe I'll send him an e-mail.

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michael.h.f.wilkinson

michael.h.f.wilkinson

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Note that there is a difference between a CGE mount and a CGE-pro. The former has a payload rating of 65 lbs, the latter 90 lbs (41 kg). The CGE-pro can handle a C14 with ease (as can the CGE). The CGE-pro can be disassembled into three components, each of which is lighter than the heaviest component of the two-part CGEM mount. That makes it easier to assemble. If you can get the CGE-pro for a good price, it is well worth considering

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Haggis

Haggis

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Note that there is a difference between a CGE mount and a CGE-pro. The former has a payload rating of 65 lbs, the latter 90 lbs (41 kg). The CGE-pro can handle a C14 with ease (as can the CGE). The CGE-pro can be disassembled into three components, each of which is lighter than the heaviest component of the two-part CGEM mount. That makes it easier to assemble. If you can get the CGE-pro for a good price, it is well worth considering

Yes, it's the Pro version that I'm after :smiley:

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Haggis

Haggis

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Check this out. You may get an idea or two.

http://www.ozscopes....t-for-goto.html

This mob ain't cheap, but at least you know you can buy something and just put your scope on.

Look around over there and talk to a retailer or two.

Thanks! I gave that mount a thought too but it seems they aren't very suitable for astrophotography. Since I'm looking for a mount that can do AP too (if the Newtonian is too heavy, then with a future C11 or C14), I think the CGE Pro is the better choice. Maybe if I ever buy a SCT to put on the CGE Pro, I can put the Newtonian on a GOTO dobson mount for visual use. But if the Newt + CGE Pro combo works good enough for AP, I may never even switch to an SCT setup.

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lardy

lardy

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Hi Haggis,

The CGE pro is an excellent mount but very very heavy! 12" reflector should be no problem at all so long as balanced properly. Spares are expensive and difficult to track down IE the motor with encoder .... about £500 if you convince Celestron to part with one ... the other option is to return the mount to USA . I use mine as my portable???? mount with my 130mm APM ..... If I could afford another CGE Pro mount I would de-fork my Meade, its a pleasure to use :-)

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UnderTheRain

UnderTheRain

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The eq6 should be able to take the 12" for viewing and I have just ordered a 10" dob mount from (the skywatcher 250px one) from optical vision for £111.75 you might want to look into seeing if you could adapt the 300 mount to take your scope if you don't fancy making your own (I haven't done any carpentry for oooh at least 25 years :)

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Haggis

Haggis

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Hi Haggis,

The CGE pro is an excellent mount but very very heavy! 12" reflector should be no problem at all so long as balanced properly. Spares are expensive and difficult to track down IE the motor with encoder .... about £500 if you convince Celestron to part with one ... the other option is to return the mount to USA . I use mine as my portable???? mount with my 130mm APM ..... If I could afford another CGE Pro mount I would de-fork my Meade, its a pleasure to use :-)

It's what I'm most afraid of. What if the mount malfunctions after some time? I live in the Netherlands and hope I can find the spare parts if something goes wrong. Tomorrow, I'll visit the seller. He lives 2.5 hours driving away from me and says he has had his CGE Pro serviced every year. So I hope he knows people who can fix it in case things go wrong. I will think twice before buying it if I'm totally on my own in case of a future malfunction. I don't mind spending some money to find a replacement part but if they are nowhere to be found or the manufacturer refuses to ship to my location I may be better off looking at another mount.

Tomorrow I'll talk things over with the seller before I buy anything.

The eq6 should be able to take the 12" for viewing and I have just ordered a 10" dob mount from (the skywatcher 250px one) from optical vision for £111.75 you might want to look into seeing if you could adapt the 300 mount to take your scope if you don't fancy making your own (I haven't done any carpentry for oooh at least 25 years :)

I haven't done any carpentry myself since I had to make a birdhouse in primary school. We've never had birds nesting in there so I guess I'm not a carpenter :grin: . I'd rather play it safe and not mount my 12" on an EQ6 but on a bit beefier mount. My 12" Newtonian is very tall and I don't want to damage my poor EQ6. If it were a G11 or a CGE I might be tempted to give it a try.

That Dob mount looks sturdy enough too. Something to keep in mind if I decide not to buy the CGE Pro after all for above reasons. Too bad the GOTO Dob mounts aren't very good at astrophotography. Or so I read...

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Haggis

Haggis

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I think Ganymedes (http://www.ganymedes.nl/) in Amstelveen is the main Celestron importer for the Netherlands. They could be contacted for service. I got my C8 there and owner struck me as decent and knowledgeable (he was quite old at the time, so the store may have changed hands).

Thank you Michael. I just bought the mount! The seller also told me Ganymedes can probably take care of Celestron spareparts should the mount ever fail. In that case he also offered that I may contact him because he has many knowledgeable friends and contacts in the astronomy hobby and he once bought a Celestron part for his older CGE mount that was shipped to him by a friend from the USA. That gave me enough confidence to make the deal so I'm now the proud owner of a very good looking CGE Pro. I bought my GSO200 at Ganymedes so I've dealt with them before and I'm also satisfied with their service. Thanks for your support, everybody! I think it may take a while before I'm ready to mount my Newtonian on it but when it's done, I'll post a few pictures.

Now I have to find a Losmandy dovetail, an extra counterweight (maybe 2 since the mount only came with 1), a decent pier that I can put on wheels and a suitable power supply to power the mount from the wall outlet. The seller gave me a selfmade "mount to PC" cable so that's already taken care of. I also plan on changing the Newt's 1.25" focuser with a 2". Do I also have to change the secondary mirror if I make the switch to a bigger focuser?

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